Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 110 total)
  • Vegetarianism – Is it natural?
  • mark_b
    Free Member

    a lifestyle/ethics/health choice that our comfortable western lifestyle lets us choose

    tell that to the people of Gujarat

    In answer to the post

    I don't really care if people are vegetarian etc…but I'd say it's definitely not natural for humans.

    my post makes perfect sense 🙂

    But yes, others may not be able to make the same choices we make….

    mavisto
    Free Member

    Joe

    The thing about protein and vegetarianism being a problem is a bit of a myth though – as long as you get a varied diet, you can easily get enough protein. For example wholemeal bread has 10g of protein per 100g, so you can get 10% of your 50g just by the bread on a single sandwich.

    The Vegetarian Society says you only get about 7.0g of protein from 2 slices of bread. That makes 14 slices to get the 50 grammes. That's one hell of a butty.

    In terms of globalisation and environment, the impact of meat farming is massively massively more, as it is a very inefficient way to create calories or protein. That is why there is an environmental movement for people to pledge to not eat meat for one day a week (or more).

    I agree that modern farming techniques and the over consumption of meat by the western world (in general) has severely damaged the environment. But I'm not sure that the majority of peoples diet did actually come from plant sources. There is so little nutritional value in plant material (calories, vitamins and minerals) that can be extracted by the human gut, it's not really worth eating (you use more calories eating and digesting celery than are actually contained in it).

    mark_b
    Free Member

    the same post has just appeared above !

    8)

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    joemarshall
    Free Member

    indeed, however in order to get 100% you would need to eat the equivalent of 10 sandwiches which is a lot. In a day I probably eat the equivalent of only 5 or 6 "sandwiches".

    Do you have nothing inside your sandwich? And none of the many other sources of protein in the rest of your diet? All I was pointing out is that by a typical lunch and a couple of slices of toast for breakfast, you'll end up getting a fifth of your protein intake, before you even consider adding obvious sources of protein (like nuts or whatever) to your diet. Protein is a bit of a red herring really, because if you just eat a healthy diet, chances are you'll pick up enough just through incidental things that you don't think of as a lump of protein.

    When I was vegan (for two years a bit back), I was maintaining a constant weight, commuting for 1.5 hours a day, riding off road for 8-10 hours most weeks, swimming for 40 mins every weekday morning, and not having any health problems. All by just eating a varied, mostly home cooked vegetable based diet. Oh and I got me a world record for off road unicycling, competed in a bunch of bike races and other stupid sporting events, I wasn't unfit. Anyone saying that you need meat to be fit and healthy, or that it is hard to get enough protein as a vegan is just plain ignorant.

    I stopped being vegan because I like the taste of cheese and eggs a lot. It was a lifestyle choice that I made, and I don't try and kid myself that it is something I needed to do, it is just something I did because I wanted to.

    Joe

    joemarshall
    Free Member

    There is so little nutritional value in plant material (calories, vitamins and minerals) that can be extracted by the human gut, it's not really worth eating (you use more calories eating and digesting celery than are actually contained in it).

    Whilst that may be true of celery, it isn't true of many other plant sources of nutrition. Which is why no-one worried too much about the Irish Celery Famine, but the Potato Famine was quite a big thing.

    Joe

    adlyhobart
    Free Member

    i think you only need to look at size of people today to see that something is very wrong. i clearly remember a fat person standing out in a crowd only 20 years ago. now its a case of spot the normal size person. i dont preach, i dont like the cruelty involved in making that harmless looking red stuff in a plastic carton. all i can say is 22 years a vegan. my red blood count is far better than average and i still get my arse in the same size jeans i wore when i was 18.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    My other half isn't is not 'vegetarian' but mostly eats vegetarian meals.
    This seems sensible to me and i'm doing the same now. Most meat is bad quality, good stuff is expensive, and it takes up loads of land.

    Can you really consider the reconsitituted low-quality meat that most people eat 'natural' anyway?? Have you seen how battery hens are kept?

    finbar
    Free Member

    i think you only need to look at size of people today to see that something is very wrong. i clearly remember a fat person standing out in a crowd only 20 years ago. now its a case of spot the normal size person.

    Were there more vegetarians/vegans 20 years ago then?

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    Were there more vegetarians/vegans 20 years ago then?

    no but meat production has changed significantly.

    we now ingest loads of hormones intended for the animals.

    mavisto
    Free Member

    Joe

    I thought a potato was a tuber? And they are different all together. Great source of carbs but still only about 2.5% protein.

    Aren't the plant bits (i.e. the leaves) of a potato poisonous?

    I've never questioned the health benefits of a balanced diet or vegetarianism. In fact, in an attempt to prolong the life of my wife (who had Cancer) we both became Organic Vegetarians. And apart from Tomatoes, that I can't stand, I really enjoyed it. Meals took longer to prepare, but I'm not sure if that was because of our inexperience.

    After all the replies though, I think the answer to the questions are, "No it is not natural, it is a life choice (not sure it's healthier yet)" and "No, you could not be totally vegetarian living solely from the produce produced in Britain"

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    and pesticides intended for animals.

    finbar
    Free Member

    Okay. But what i was getting at is there are a lot more factors at play than diet to explain people getting fatter.

    joemarshall
    Free Member

    After all the replies though, I think the answer to the questions are, "No it is not natural, it is a life choice (not sure it's healthier yet)"

    I'd agree with that, it isn't natural, it is a life choice, exactly the same as all other modern diets.

    and "No, you could not be totally vegetarian living solely from the produce produced in Britain"

    I think that's probably not true, although you might have a somewhat more restricted diet than many of us do and it maybe would not be quite so healthy (not convinced either way on that). If you look at what a lot of poor people ate historically in the UK and Ireland, it would have been a primarily meat free diet with no imported goods, so it is clearly possible to survive.

    Joe

    juan
    Free Member

    Well to all the vegan/veggie ninja on here that pretend to be the heathiest on the planet bla bla bla… Do you drink alcohol? If yes forget about it the healthy side then.

    As for the OP, well human body is incapable to metabolise essential amino-acid. Hence you need them from an external source.
    Being veggie is fine, as fish, eggs, dairy do contain a lot of such nutriments. I do however understand that you don't need g of red meat everyday (actually red meat is by far the worst meat one could eat, no matter how tasty is it) and that there is a problem in farming (yes your pig will grow heathly and tasty if you actually give him scraps to eat). Now vegan. Before I start I have to say I am biased due to the attitude of vegan ninjas from this very same forum.
    What is the **** point of that? No meat, no fish, no sea food, no diary what you tell me where you get your AA from… Oh yes tofu, because soya is such a native plant from the UK, and having it overfarmed and shipped all over the world is obviously doing mother nature such a favour…
    I think most of the vegan are just fashion victims. If you actually want to remove the suffering of small and cute animals etc etc well lets face it.

    Throw yourself in front of the train (make sure it's not stoner's one) as human have become the dominant species of earth and as such just do every animal at the top of the food chain does… Eat the smaller ones.

    nostoc
    Free Member

    yawn

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    another reasonable post from Juan :roll:.

    EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP SOME MEAT EATER ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING INFURIATED BY MY EATING HABITS WHY?

    I am a vegan *as I pesonally would not kill animals to eat (clearly a lifestyle choice ) you would/could /do excellent eat meat .
    All for choice

    Back on topic I doubt really that either a vegie or a meat etater could eat their current diet without imports so perhaps in that sense I doubt it is natural.
    Then again neither is exchanging views on an internet forum , riding bikes or watching tv.

    *sorry Juan dont drink either However I doubt I am the healthiest person on the planet and I am not a ninja either.

    thomthumb
    Free Member

    first off i'm a recent veggie convert – several illogical reasons, but i won't bore you with that.

    I can't stand people who force their ideology down your throat wheter that be eat meat, don't eat meat, political or straight edge. blah blah boring.

    No modern dieat is particually natural due to the way we ship food around the world, eat foods out of season.

    a 'natural' diet would be that of a hunter gatherer or early arable farming – eating what would be produced locally. the problem with this is it has to be a snapshot in time. whgat is grown locally now is not what was grown locally 100 years ago….

    roper
    Free Member

    juan
    Free Member

    EVERY TIME THIS COMES UP SOME MEAT EATER ALWAYS ENDS UP BEING INFURIATED BY MY EATING HABITS WHY?

    Well if bloody vegan were not so offensive to start with (I think it was xerbivorx). It's like ss to be honest each to their own, but FFS why do you have to willy wave it, or jump to any one throat when they dare to say "I like meat".

    No modern dieat is particually natural due to the way we ship food around the world, eat foods out of season.

    Agree maybe time for a change? The market place have a small producer aisle who actually produce seasonal food. I'll ask the butcher if he know where is meat come from next time.

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    Where did the thing about ninjas come from? 😯

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    Isn't to do with their farts – silent but deadly?

    Drac
    Full Member

    Back on topic I doubt really that either a vegie or a meat etater could eat their current diet without imports

    I only ever buy british meat and try to get local if I can.

    juan
    Free Member

    Where did the thing about ninjas come from?

    Flickr on the bike tat galery. There is a vegan ninja one. Sound better than vegan keyboard warriors

    breatheeasy
    Free Member

    I think in our dim and distant history the more concentrated amounts of protein in meat enabled our brains (that take a lot of energy to run) to grow and hence evolve into the people we are today (most predators are 'clever', most prey tends to be not).

    As science has evolved we can now work out the levels of protein/carbs/vitamins etc. required to sustain our bodies. So in the days of transport/air travel (to import all those foreign nuts/veggies etc.) then it is probably feasible to be a vegetarian in this day and age.

    (And all those saying eating meat means we eat pesticides etc. are conveniently forgetting these things are also used on vegetables too…).

    So technicall not 'natural', but as other people have pointed out, getting your hair cut, driving cars and living past 40 are not 'natural'. I'm sure progress and pressures on the earths resources will see an increase in high protein vegetable alternatives. Still, the odd t-bone will still be a treat.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    For Juan

    A french person was once rude/offensive to me should I dislike all the French now or just that rude person?
    DISCUSS

    sc-xc
    Full Member

    I'm a vegetarian. Is it a lifestyle choice? Of course it is. Do I still cook/prepare/serve meat for my family or visiting friends? Of course I do. Do I know that I am lucky to have this choice? Of course I do.

    Why get so hung up on what other people eat? I would no more tell someone else what to do with their diet as I would criticise someone for their choice.

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    I suspect it is perfectly legitimate to criticise people for their diet if you build in the impact of that diet on other people.

    If you were a bangladeshi peasant whose land had been flooded and salted over because somebody had realised that if they cut down a mangrove swamp so they could supply British people with jumbo king prawns too cheap to meter they would make a killing, you might reasonably ask whether that was fair. (One quite interesting link here)

    6 billion people cannot eat anything like the amount of meat we eat without establishing a pretty big farm on Mars. Our "fair share" of the amount of meat the world can sensibly expect to produce is a damn sight less than most of us currently get through. 🙂

    sc-xc
    Full Member

    ^ fair point.

    cookeaa
    Full Member

    Humans are natural Hunter gatherers, adapted to survive on most things as seasons and location dictate, our ancestors had neither the big Mac nor the Quorn burger, they either hunted it, picked or dug it up, meaning they would probably have gone months without meat at times and when they did get a nice chunk of antelope or boar they’d soon burn off the calories. I doubt many of you Audi driving, Accountant, Meat lovers have been hunting or for that matter farming lately, I also doubt you burn off all the high calorie meat you take in straight away.

    I’m a Pescatarian (Fishetarian), almost, but not quite a veggie, not on ethical grounds or anything, mainly for the protein, Iron and Fat deficiencies a proper Veggie diet would have, initially I changed diet for 4 reasons:

    1- A bet, which 15 years on I have not yet won!
    2- A fair few of the “proper meat eating men!” I’ve met have been wheezy lard arses.
    3- I though Women would think I was more sensitive, They didn’t…
    4- I’m very keen on sea food anyway so if I’m going to eat just one type of meat it may as well be my favourite.

    If I was still a proper Meatatarian I have no doubt I would be a total lard bucket by now (I barely do enough to shift the fat from a lentil)…
    I’m not militant and would never advise anyone what to eat, it’s completely up to them, the one thing I do dislike is the modern militant carnivore, Billy big bollocks that feel all clever after a good Gordon Ramsey sponsored Veggie bashing session, you like meat, well done what does telling me prove?

    As for the OP question on veggies surviving on indigenous UK produce, it is possible, there would need to be a fair amount of growing things at home, and allowing for Dairy and eggs I think protein would not be a major problem, most would probably be healthier.

    Vegans are a different matter, there is actually very little a strict vegan can eat, even less if you stick to UK produce only, I think they would struggle without supplements and imported foods, they would be spending the majority of their time gathering berries and nuts, with a Net nutritional value lower than that involved gathering them…

    BigDummy
    Free Member

    If I may, I shall applaud you for your choice Barry, which is one that I currently lack the moral fibre and good judgement to make. 🙂

    mountaincarrot
    Free Member

    Of course it's natural. Everything is natural, how can it not be?

    Unnatural things are green men from Mars, god, and the flying spaghetti monster.

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    mainly for the protein, Iron and Fat deficiencies a proper Veggie diet would have

    Reference required please…be quick I barely have the energy to type or stay awake 😉

    nostoc
    Free Member

    Trade with people of different nationalities is unnatural and food preservation is the work of Satan

    anotherdeadhero
    Free Member

    Do cows produce more methane per tonne bodyweight than a lentil and chick pea powered ADH?

    I think not.

    *parp*

    lowey
    Full Member

    I love threads like this…

    Go get em Johnnie. Where's xherbivorx when you need a proper hardcore vegan terrorist to spice things up.

    anotherdeadhero
    Free Member

    Spice?

    *sucks teeth*

    They come from a long way away. You'll have to make do with some mallow and some parsley.

    GEDA
    Free Member

    Most of our calories come from Oil. Fertiliser, herbicides, insecticides, transport, diesel etc. if you eat vegetables or meat so there should be no big disagreement. Not sure what will happen to our farming system when it gets more expensive though.

    juan
    Free Member

    Not sure what will happen to our farming system when it gets more expensive though.

    I can guess go back to were it was. Less farming so meet on a regular basis but not daily.
    Seasonal fruits and seeds not imported from all over the world, spice back to were they belong "luxuries" (I have to admit this one is really hurting me though).
    I think the population is going to be a problem to. How can you manage the need for economical growth (we need more babies so we will buy more stuff) with the fact that earth can only supply a limited number of people.

    anotherdeadhero
    Free Member

    Or we could just farm in a more intelligent way, if you can't force yeilds up with oil-derived fertilizers and mechanisation, you have to think again. Permaculture for example. Acceptance of GM.

    That and hope swine flu lowers the burden a good jolt.

    mogrim
    Full Member

    Being veggie is fine, as fish, eggs, dairy do contain a lot of such nutriments

    That's a very Spanish approach to vegetarianism: fish is an animal…

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 110 total)

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