Tried some of that This Isn’t Chicken in a curry last night and have to say it wasn’t too bad. Probably the nearest thing to meat so far out of the meat substitutes I’ve tried and will buy again.

@Cougar

I’ve been on a mission to create a gravy that hasn’t seen a granule. I think I’ve nailed it, I’ll type it up later (it’s hand-written and I’m on holiday).

Posted 1 hour ago

👍🏼 If it’s even half as good as the Avante Garde Vegan one then I’ll give it a bash!

Trust me, you have to trial that gravy once in your life. By the gods it was unbelievably good.

https://www.avantgardevegan.com/recipes/best-ever-vegan-gravy/

THIS Isn’t Pork cocktail sausages

Tried these tonight with some oven chips and Heinz Spanish Beanz

I can’t see anyone being disappointed. Lobbed the (they are sold cold, precooked) sausages in with oven chips for last 10 mins to heat through.

Texture = plump, meaty. Flavour = caramelised, sweet/savoury porky flavour. I can’t tell the difference between these and regular pork cocktail sausages to be honest.

Late to the party was some English mustard and a squirt of tomato ketchup. Most satisfactory overall.

they (Richmond) are releasing bacon rashers soon… If they’re as good as the sausages , they should be good (thanks whoever suggested them)

@LAP13 Tried the Richmond rashers the other week. Somewhat like the generic, thin, ‘playdough’-looking veggie rashers of yesteryear (Morningstar strips spring to mind). Inoffensive smoked flavour, but not meaty in texture nor umami in flavour. I’ll be sticking to the homemade shiitake or king oyster mushroom-rashers, or THIS Isn’t Bacon rashers. ymmv

Also had THIS cocktail sausages again since. They are amazing.

Thanks for the bump. I was going to type up my gravy recipe and forgot.

I’ve just leafed through my notes and I can’t find the current version, just an older one. I’ll have to make it again before I’m in a position to share it.

(The one I have here is my own impenetrable shorthand scrawl and starts “oil, onion, sweat” and I’m assuming the third one is an instruction rather than an ingredient…)

Speaking of which,

In addition to the green veggie stock cubes, OXO are now doing “meat free” red ones. They’re a bit of a game changer for things like cottage pie and traditionally beefy stews.

Texture = plump, meaty. Flavour = caramelised, sweet/savoury porky flavour. I can’t tell the difference between these and regular pork cocktail sausages to be honest.

So given its an added flavouring, eating worm flesh, flavoured with pork seasoning, that would be the same, taste wise at least, of pork sausages.

And given many people who adopt a vegetarian or vegan food intake do so because of animal welfare, where would they stand on grown in the lab meat products 😕

^ I’m enjoying this thread for the recipes, not so much the science or politics but will try and answer. Am personally unconcerned about umami and sage flavouring components in either plant-products or animal-products. The pig itself is a different matter (for me) as it’s a highly intelligent and emotional sentient life-form and also one of the most abused, exploited and intensively-raised/slaughtered creatures on the planet. And that’s just for starters before getting into the environmental issues. I’m personally much less-concerned about eating sage and mushrooms, pea-protein etc.

So given its an added flavouring, eating (sic) worm flesh, flavoured with pork seasoning, that would be the same, taste wise at least, of pork sausages.

Not quite following? ‘Pork seasoning’? Herbs are herbs, Spices are spices are, ie we season some pork sausage with certain herbs and we season some veg products with certain herbs? Mushrooms also? Food gets seasoned, I’m a fan of seasoning and flavours and textures (food) in general. Not a fan of over-seasoning, am slowly learning via cooking, copying recipe elements and experimenting more.

What’s in a pork cocktail sausage? (eg Morrison’s own):

INGREDIENTS: Pork (61%), Water, Fortified Wheat Flour (Wheat Flour, Calcium Carbonate, Iron, Nicotinic Acid, Thiamin), Potato Starch, Acidity Regulator (Potassium Lactate), Salt, Dextrose, Stabiliser (Diphosphates), Raising Agent (Ammonium Carbonate), Yeast Extract, Preservative (Sodium Metabisulphite), Pepper Extract, Sage Extract, Nutmeg Extract, Mace Extract, Cayenne Extract, Ginger Extract, Rapeseed Oil, Sausage filled in a Beef Collagen Casing

What’s in a ‘THIS isn’t pork’ cocktail sausage? :

IMGREDIENTS: Mushrooms (25%), Water, Pea Flour, Onions, Rapeseed Oil, Stabilisers (processed eucheuma seaweed, methyl cellulose), Palm Oil, Pea Fibre, Pea Protein (2%), Pea Starch, Rice Flour, Sugar, Natural Flavouring, Maize Flour, Yeast Extract, Salt, Dried Onion, Textured Pea Protein, Parsley, Porcini Mushroom Powder, Cracked Black Pepper, Maize Starch, Colour (plain caramel), Sage, Preservative (sodium metabisulphite), Ground Mace, Dextrose, White Pepper.

What to deduce from that? I’ve no idea!

And given many people who adopt a vegetarian or vegan food intake do so because of animal welfare, where would they stand on grown in the lab meat products 😕

Piece of string question I’m guessing? Given many cyclists adopt a cycling lifestyle because of environmental and climate concerns, where would they stand on carbon bikes, ebikes, Chinese bikes, owning more than one bike, bike racks on ICE vehicles, uplifts, ebikes etc?

Potato crisps are flavoured yeah ?, then think ‘pork flavour’ from there, or alternatively chicken flavouring or whatever, thats all i was meaning.

Many moons ago was camping with a party of bikers up for one of the groups birthday, and chap who was vegetarian has a chicken flavoured product he was frying. He shared a little and it tasted very nice.
So the main protein aspect of it is unimportant, the flavouring these days can make a n otherwise bland product taste like anything.

Thats all I was meaning. whatever product, non meat form an animal obviously, flavoured to taste like said animal

sodium metabisulphite

Tis is quite a nasty preservative, im surprised its still being used given its rotting effect on the stomach.
We used to use it in the meat trade but it was banned at that level. By using it i mean it came as a powder and mixed with water prevented cut surfaces from drying out. It is still used in peach paper, which kind of does the same thing, but discontinued as a powdered mix.
Funnily enough, its also the stuff you use for cleaning brewery or home brewing equipment.

So the main protein aspect of it is unimportant, the flavouring these days can make a n otherwise bland product taste like anything.

Thats all I was meaning. whatever product, non meat form an animal obviously, flavoured to taste like said animal

To a degree. Although if you take cheap cuts of meat (ie MRM, spam) vs (say) a shiitake or porcini mushroom then I’d argue that the mushroom is the tastier/least-bland of the two in unadulterated form. Add sage, mace, garlic, pepper, salt etc to either cooked foodstuff (ie the bland spam or the tasty mushroom) and then our 1960’s British taste-buds will fire a synapse that registers ‘English breakfast sausage’. If OTOH I’d been raised on mushroom sausages flavoured with those same tasty herbs and spices and then later in life tasted a pork English breakfast sausage, I’d be saying ‘wow, they flavoured that bland meat to taste like a mushroom breakfast-sausage!’

It’s largely about the umami tastebuds IME. The fat taste-profiles are also interesting though.

ie sodium metabisulphite yes both the pork sausages and the THIS plant sossies list it as an ingredient. How much they both use I don‘t know. I’ll trust that the amount of (plant) sausages that I eat, ie maybe once a week (normally Heck meat-free, pea-based, with no sodium-metabisulphite) nowadays means my stomach and heart is (hopefully) heading towards some better shape that when I was taking (animal) bacon and sausages three or four times a week.

Thanks for the heads up on E223. Although I read:

Is Sodium Metabisulfite Safe to Eat?
Yes, it almost has no side effects and the safety has been approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), as well as the Joint FAO/WHO Expert Committee on Food Additives (JECFA). https://foodadditives.net/preservatives/sodium-metabisulfite/

The following food may contain it (5):

Fresh, Peeled, cut and shredded, Frozen, Dried fruit and vegetables: such as table grapes, peeled potatoes, frozen and deep-frozen potatoes, dried coconut, dried mushrooms, dried ginger, dried tomatoes, dried apples, pears and bananas
Jams, jellies and marmalades
Dry biscuits
Beer and malt beverages
Cider and perry
Fruit wine and made wine

And can anyone tell me why ‘chicken of the woods’ mushroom tastes like chicken rather than chicken tasting like chicken of the woods mushroom? Which came first, the chicken or the mushroom? And why does ‘lobster mushroom’ taste like lobster rather than…?

@Cougar, thnks will check out the vegan ‘beef’ Oxo. Using Kallo Umami cubes atm for lentil cottage pie and they’re good. Will maybe do a cook-off between the two!

Thanks for the heads up on E223. Although I read:

In the trade it was called ‘Madam’ no idea where that name came from, but it was removed from suppliers maybe about 25 years ago.

Theres also this

In food it(E223) is used as a preservative. … It can only be used in EU countries in very tiny quantities as it is toxic to mammals and is banned in foods for under-threes. Sodium metabisulphite (E223) is a preservative sometimes associated with skin reactions.

And here, but I think its a general consensus that sulfides are bad for you, and as they are taken daily, then you have to accept theres likely to be an accumulative effect
https://www.talkingaboutthescience.com/studies/E-numbers.pdf

I try to keep my own intake to fresh ingredients and try to avoid things like prepared ready meals. My diet is quite basic really, i tend to stick to fresh veg and fresh meat. Helps having a background in cooking and butchery. First placements were as a commis working hotels, ive the city and guilds trade qualifications there and spent 2 years at the Glasgow food tech before moving into the meat trade and doing that, including 2 further years of course work.
I may not be a great fan of many vegetables, but I know my onions.

And here, but I think its a general consensus that sulfides are bad for you

But nonetheless, a ‘general consensus’ that isn’t shared by any of the food standards agencies I listed, and the link you gave mentions only that ‘one woman’ developed severe asthma after eating a salad with vinegar containing it’?

and as they are taken daily, then you have to accept theres likely to be an accumulative effect

Not quite following, what are ‘taken daily?’ And by who?

In the trade it was called ‘Madam’ no idea where that name came from, but it was removed from suppliers maybe about 25 years ago.

Yet after a quick shufty (just searched sodium metabisulphite and Morrisons, Asda for instance) I see it listed as an ingredient in pork (not veggie/vegan) cocktail sausages, beefburgers, ‘best thick pork sausages’, turkey burgers, meatballs, hotdogs, lamb kebabs, etc etc. Asda 90% pork ‘extra special pork sausages’ have it in them for crying out loud! Wine!

(knew I shouldn’t have gotten into this!)

I’m calling shenanigans and derailment and I fell for it!

And given many people who adopt a vegetarian or vegan food intake do so because of animal welfare, where would they stand on grown in the lab meat products 😕

Obvious troll is obvious but, OK.

For me this is easy, I’m not one of those “many”. I don’t eat meat because I think it’s revolting (and unnecessary), nothing to do with welfare. Lab-grown flesh is still flesh. I haven’t yet been brave enough to try the really-close-to-meat options like Beyond Burger, even. I eat stuff like Quorn not because it’s “like” something else but because discs, chunks etc are convenient ways of consuming protein. What other *gans would think or do I cannot say. It’s likely an uncomfortable question.

But, we can turn this question around. Many people who adopt a carnivorous food intake do so because vegetarian options “aren’t the same.” If we could produce an identical plant-based ‘meat’ that even Desperate Dan couldn’t distinguish from dead cow, be that value-grade burgers or a fillet steak, would they carry on eating meat? It’s likely an uncomfortable question.

Potato crisps are flavoured yeah ?, then think ‘pork flavour’ from there, or alternatively chicken flavouring or whatever, thats all i was meaning.

I don’t generally eat meat-flavoured crisps, not even remotely for vegetarian reasons, I just don’t like them. I’ll eat say “barbecue beef” if what they actually taste of is barbecue sauce.

So the main protein aspect of it is unimportant, the flavouring these days can make an otherwise bland product taste like anything.

… which has been my argument all along. When you eat a pork hot dog you don’t think “mm, tastes of pork,” you think “mm, tastes of hot dog”. All you’re tasting is flavourings, we can use the those same flavourings in a vegetarian dog. Tivall frozen hot dog sausages are (from memory) indistinguishable from the Plumrose ones I used to eat as a kid. I’ve served them up countless times to omnivores who have loved them and haven’t believed me when I’ve told them it’s veggie. (Generally met with something like an incredulous “really?! But it’s… not shit!”)

I’m calling shenanigans and derailment and I fell for it

As I said, obvious troll is obvious. Should’ve been clear as soon as the presented evidence was a link to an anti-vax website with the word “science” in the title which is trying to sell books to the gormless.

That PDF there is hilarious. For future reference: a handy shibboleth for this sort of thing is Aspartame, it’s the poster child ‘threat to swivel-eye-sation’ and it’s (precisely because of all the fearmongering scare stories) one of the single most heavily tested food products in the world. As soon as someone gets a hard-on over it you know you’re heading rapidly towards “Flat Earth / mercury and dead babies in vaccines / the moon landings were filmed in a sound stage in Arizona” territory.

But yes. Derailment. Cougar, Shush.

So a question is now a troll. Cant have an opinion on the matter eh.
Well fair enough, suit yourselves.
but if thats the case then the entire thread is a troll on meat eaters.

You asked an off-topic “yes but what about meat” question on a thread discussing the diametric opposite, with a side order of faux-scientific whataboutery horse manure, yet both I and P7 had the grace to answer it anyway.

If you have an “opinion on the matter” then I missed that bit, sorry.

Also,

I answered your question but you didn’t answer mine.

I’ve really been missing the southern fried chicken taste. As fortune would have it, I got us one of these Lind Macs Chicken Buckets on offer for a few quids (normally a fiver 😮 . Bonus = they are also vegan-approved.

Served them with sweet potato oven-fries and a big home-made chopped salad with mayo, spring onions, grated carrot, tomatoes, fresh mint, sultanas, walnuts.

The chicken bucket was mixed, ie two different types of breaded nugget, 50% Southern-Fried/KFC chicken-breast-style, 50% popcorn chicken style.

I wanted a dipping sauce so raided the cupboards and found a DIY sriracha/BBQ dipping sauce designed for southern fried chicken. It’ just molasses, syrup, ketchup, and ketchup. I also added a little balsamic vinegar and teaspoon of Heinz BBQ sauce.

Here’s the sauce recipe: https://createmindfully.com/4-ingredient-sriracha-bbq-sauce/

It hit the spot for me. Had half a bucket and it was enough. The dipping sauce I made was ace on the nuggets. The breast-style nuggets tasted the most like KFC. The popcorn style was a nice texture yet lighter flavour (still nice), so again some DIY dipping the sauce comes into it’s own. Which is how it should be. So all in all a perfect pairing. Would recommend them, but get the frozen ones in the box as much less expensive than this chilled bucket. And the frozen ones are all southern fried style, which I liked best. Get some. But make sure to make some dipping sauce. That goes for any breaded nuggets.

Sorry* It’s just molasses, syrup, ketchup, and ketchupsriracha

Edit window 😎

It’s a little hard initially I think, but can manage for a week probably not any longer!

There are a couple of Guosto recipes we’ve had recently with Tofu which have been excellent.
One with a miso marinade and fresh wilted greens and pakchoi was defo worth the effort.

But, we can turn this question around. Many people who adopt a carnivorous food intake do so because vegetarian options “aren’t the same.” If we could produce an identical plant-based ‘meat’ that even Desperate Dan couldn’t distinguish from dead cow, be that value-grade burgers or a fillet steak, would they carry on eating meat? It’s likely an uncomfortable question.

@Cougar I’m not sure why that would be an uncomfortable question? I’m ominiverous but certainly enjoy meat. I’ll happily eat veggie food but generally avoid veggie food pretending to be meat as it doesn’t quite live up to expectations. However if a synthetic meat was indistinguishable from meat in all regards – taste, texture, price, environmental impact, nutritional value, economic beneficiaries etc. then I’d not be opposed to replacing it.

However, it would be pretty pointless to replace one cut of meat if I can’t also replace everything else I get from the same animal; and even if you make a perfect chicken substitute I’ll still want to eat pork, lamb, beef, venison, fish, shellfish, rabbit etc.

However, it would be pretty pointless to replace one cut of meat

By your personal reckoning maybe not. By global metrics replacing a beef pattie could be the complete opposite of pointless. (Offer table below as a hypothetical example only and I haven’t cross-referenced or done a few hrs homework on it)

See also ‘why replace a TDI VW with an electric one, it’s pointless because I’d still want to drive my Mustang, my Ferrari, my Jag and my 1976 Mini’

Can suggest tho we start a new thread about politics/stats/metrics of plant-based products tho, as this thread is handy for veggie recipes yet militant meat-eaters (understandably) like to argue against plant-based alternatives. I love a good debate but it becomes like a ‘inspire me with your favourite hardtail pics’ thread that was diverted into a never-ending argument about 90s rigid bikes and downhill FS bikes vs hardtails – and also why orange is a better colour I’ll never buy green!

if a synthetic meat was indistinguishable from meat in all regards… then I’d not be opposed to replacing it.

That’s an interesting choice of words though, and it’s kind of what I was getting at. You wouldn’t definitely switch, you merely wouldn’t be opposed to it. Such a big list of caveats too.

This threads been derailed so many times I’ve lost track of whether I even answered it in the first place. Why are @dyna-ti et.al. determined to derail it? Without their contributions it would actually be a useful resource!

So given its an added flavouring, eating worm flesh, flavoured with pork seasoning, that would be the same, taste wise at least, of pork sausages.

I’m still trying to figure out where the worm flesh comes in?

I’m a big fan of this stuff for bolognase etc.

More flavour than beef TBH

However if a synthetic meat was indistinguishable from meat in all regards – taste, texture, price, environmental impact, nutritional value, economic beneficiaries etc.

environmental impact – I don’t think that’s even an argument is it? Unless you get into some edge case like “The lake district would look completely different if sheep farming ended and the trees grew back”, or “Moors …………………… if grouse ……” etc.

Price – About 75% of our households weekly shops cost is the meat eater.

nutritional value – again, is there a study that shows meet is good for you? Again, it’s not even an argument anymore really.

economic beneficiaries – farmers grow veg too, arguably they’d have to grow less veg as they wouldn’t be feeding it to the livestock. But then that just encourages overly intensive farming practices. If we were only farming what we needed as food then the need for those diminishes. The biggest beneficiaries of the differential between meat Vs veg are going to be the energy, water, and other suppliers into that production chain.

I’m a big fan of this stuff for bolognase etc.

Looks like worm flesh.

Looks like worm flesh.

Maybe it’s not for you then, that’s fine.

Tried ‘chickpeas of the sea’ for lunch today

https://simple-veganista.com/chickpea-of-sea-salad-sandwic/

A blimmin tasty vegan ‘tuna’ and mayonnaise salad (or sandwich-filler) I’m imoressed.

I added dill and flat leaf parsley as had some in the garden herbs (basically a big planter we keep outside, its easy to keep and saves a fortune buying rubbish supermarket fresh herbs in plastic). I also added a little tinned sweetcorn.

Next time I’l mash up the chickpeas first before adding other ingredients. Would be much easier in a flat bottomed tub with a potato masher. I did it in a bowl with a fork and the other ingredients but it took longer in the end. Recipe recommends 3/4 can chickpeas but I’ll use a whole can next time. It didn’t last long anyway as Mrs P was fighting me for it. Two cans next time! Just ace food. And really economical.

Some variations options I’ll try next time (same things I do with tuna tbh, except for the seaweed) :

– Add tabasco and sliced cucumber, combine with the chickpea mayo in a wrap.
– Add more seaweed flakes
– Add a few teaspoons of B12 nutritional yeast flakes
– Add some capers
– sliced pickled jalapeños

* Edit – some good extra/similar top tips at the end of the recipe at the link. Especially the omega oils/chia seeds

(Thinks) in a revisit to the ‘oat milk on porridge’ eureka!moment – am now oddly excited about first making the mayonnaise from aquafaba & then the no-fish tuna with canned chickpeas.

Recently read that things are moving forward with seafood/‘fish’-flavourings derived from algal sources. Something that could take this to the next level. (sea-change pun goes here!)

Going to trial this sauce first though: https://www.thevegankindsupermarket.com/p/thai-taste-vegan-fish-sauce-180ml#feefo-product-review-widgetId

Maybe it’s not for you then, that’s fine.

Sorry if it wasn’t obvious, I was being silly after TINAS’ comment.

I had a bash at Jamie Oliver’s veggie bolognese tonight. What a feed! It’s simple and quick to prepare, using simple ingredients. Tastes authentic and hearty and I have to give credit where due – deliciously satisfying. Best/tastiest bolognese I’ve ever cooked by far (meat or veggie)

Didn’t have dried porcini mushrooms to make the recommended broth, so instead cooked up some dried lentils with a Kallo umami stock cube (a vegan beef/red Oxo cube might do a similar job) plus a teaspoon of Marmite added to a cup of water. Added the half a cup of dried lentils (I used dark green/puy as that’s what we had. I’d use brown otherwise or a mix of the two) brought to boil, cooked until soft enough to eat and then added to bolognese (along with their broth) where he added canned lentils in the vid/recipe.

Tip: Don’t season sauce until have tasted with the broth added in. It’s (broth) very savoury and so any additional salt at this point may not be desired. YMMV Otherwise, I followed the recipe as is. Be careful not too stir too vigorously while cooking as the rosemary sprig/s will shed leaves throughout the sauce.

Highly Recommended. Became an instant new staple. Now to work on some vegan parmesan https://minimalistbaker.com/how-to-make-vegan-parmesan-cheese/
A pic of the sauce half way thru. It’s got a rich and beautiful flavour to it:

That other bloke’s version 😉:

Cougar, where do you buy these hotdogs? I’ve not had a hotdog in years, but you’ve piqued my interest!.

Historically Holland & Barratt, but they’re increasingly not having freezers in their stores.

The last batch I got was an online delivery from… I think Iceland, either that or Sainsbury’s? IIRC they’re marketed as frankfurters.

Ah, it’s Ocado.

https://www.ocado.com/products/tivall-vegetarian-frankfurters-frozen-52454011

Quick PSA for anyone looking for an easy meat-free meal

Waitrose completely overhauled their vegan range. I chanced upon it last week and must say it’s an impressively diverse range compared to just about everywhere else.

Vegan products are labelled Plantlife while veggie range is labelled GoVeggie

It’s all on introductory offer for limited period (ie about 20% less than the full prices listed below)

Plantlife range includes:

Products under the new Plantlife Range include:No Chorizo Tortelloni 250g: £3.00
Mushroom & Lentil Bolognese Cannelloni 300g: £3.49
Mediterranean Style Vegetable Sausages 280g: £3.00
Mushroom & Leek Sausages 300g: £3.00
Spanish Style No Chorizo Whirls 300g: £3.00
Crispy No Chicken Escalope 240g: £3.00
Topped Garlic & Parsley Ciabatta Breadsticks 270g: £2.25
No Fishcakes 260g: £3.00
Pulled Oyster Mushroom Burgers 200g: £3.00
Smoky Vegan Chilli with Rice 380g: £3.50
Tikka Masala with Chargrilled Vegetables and Cashews 380g: £3.50
Green Thai Style Curry 380g: £3.50
Mushroom Scallop Linguine 400g: £3.50
No Beef Bourguignon with Mash 400g: £3.50
Moussaka 400g: £3.50
Dauphinoise Potatoes 450g: £2.75
Nut Roast 300g: £5.00
Crispy No Beef with Sweet Chilli Sauce 150g: £3.00
No Duck Spring Rolls 216g: £3.00
Thai Style No Fishcakes 150g: £2.50
Rainbow Vegetable Fritters 180g: £2.50
No Chicken Samosa 200g: £2.50
Moroccan Style Falafels 200g: £2.75
Chocolate & Caramel Dessert 200g: £2.00

We tried the No chicken samosas and the breaded escalopes. Both a big hit. Samosas are especially nice. The escalopes are (IMO) best sliced and dipped with some sauce as mentioned upthread, but today I put them with a roast dinner and 👍🏼. They are tastier and more satisfying than the old range, which were already IME pretty good. So thumbs up! The samosas are mega. Bunged a nut roast in the freezer, will try that next week.

Found details at this blog https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/new-waitrose-plantlife-range-largest-ever-meat-free-product-launch/

Better still, there’s a new Christmas range also on the way:

https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/waitrose-vegan-christmas-2021-range/

Ooh, that looks good. Cheers.

From the same site,

https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/vegan-black-pudding-launching-at-asda/