If I lost some weight I could also thump you for that!

😂

I heard tht if they change the frequency on the new 5G masts by 2 megahertz then everyone becomes automatically immune to Covid-19, guy down the Red Lion told me.

or is it ‘pub fact’?

I wish it was, as that would mean I’ve been down the pub!

I’ll see if I can find a more definitive article, but you know, work. These two imply it’s getting better; could be due to all the most susceptible people dying already of course. But also due to weakening

Declining death rate from COVID-19 in hospitals in England

COVID-19: Declining Admissions to Intensive Care Units

Most deadly viruses do it. Here’s HIV for instance https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-30254697 or Ebola https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/last-years-ebola-strain-weaker-than-that-of-1976-study-770232

Measures including vaccines don’t have to be 100% effective

Now, I was always taught vaccines are 100% effective when administered properly. Otherwise it’s not a vaccine, it’s palliative care, mitigating the problem. But then I’m the sort of saddo who gets upset when people say vaccine in reference to a bacterial infection.

I heard tht if they change the frequency on the new 5G masts by 2 megahertz then everyone becomes automatically immune to Covid-19

No, no. The frequency change is to activate the tracking chip that Bill Gates has put in the vaccine.

In many ways I am surprised that only one in six people in the UK acts like a moron, especially with all the crap on Facebook and Twitter – people see all sorts of rubbish shared as “news” and some of them are dim enough to think there must be at least a grain of truth in it.

I just want to mention the comments about Thalidomide in particular because I am also of the age where my mother might have taken it so I am very fortunate she did not. But that was one DRUG sixty years ago – not a vaccine. And against that I count myself lucky that I didn’t get polio and spend my life crippled or in an iron lung like a handful of people still are even today, that I didn’t get TB and waste away in a sanatorium, or die from lockjaw after a simple cut, or suffer from other nasty and fatal diseases like Diphtheria, Typhoid, or Smallpox or Measles. All thanks to vaccines.

So if and when the Covid vaccine becomes available it really is a No Brainer.

Has noone seen I am Legend then??

if and when the Covid vaccine becomes available it really is a No Brainer.

If one comes out whilst the disease still has the existing mortality rate, I would definitely be taking one. I have a flu shot every year, and CV is ~10 times as lethal.

If it stops me having to **** queue to do a bit of **** grocery shopping, I’ll drink a **** bottle of bleach.

I’ve possibly had a vaccine already – I’m in the stage 2/3 trial via Oxford university and thus have a 50-50 chance of having had a potential Covid vaccine or a Meningitis vaccine which they gave as the control.

Obviously this shows that I’m in favour of it… And for people who are too selfish to vaccinate themselves or their kids, what about those who are unable to do so (chemo patients and others who are neutropenic or otherwise immunosuppressed) and rely on herd immunity?

Now, I was always taught vaccines are 100% effective when administered properly.

You need a different teacher. Many vaccines are not 100% protective. Some are therapeutic and stoke up the already present immunity, some induce less serious infection than would otherwise be expected (e.g., malaria).

As for bacterial, the HiB vaccine has been spectacular in reducing carriage of a commensal bacteria that leads to meningitis.

As for bacterial, the HiB vaccine has been spectacular in reducing carriage of a commensal bacteria that leads to meningitis.

But it’s not a vaccine if it works against Bacteria. At least, it wasn’t. Terminology has changed. That’s kinda my point…

Malaria doesn’t have a vaccine. It has drugs, either prophylactic, or palliative.
There is no vaccine that works properly at the moment (there is a drug that even the WHO recommend isn’t taken). And again, it’s against something that isn’t a virus, in that case a Plasmodium, so isn’t a vaccine. In this case, it would be a long term prophylactic.

Like PrEP against HIV isn’t a vaccine; it’s just a drug that stops the virus reproducing. Same with Remdesivir against Ebola and CV19. Kinda like antitoxins

what about those who are unable to do so

Essential oils.

Only if they’re diluted down to about 1ppb.

I’ll be refusing a Covid vaccine

They’ll just inject you in your sleep if you do.

That’s what they do.

Not true. Chemtrails init.

Have warned my kids that I’ll be refusing a Covid vaccine and am prepared to go to prison for exercising my personal choice.

I hope that is not because you’re worried about an inflammatory response, as that would be a tad hypocritical…..

Gah, cross-posted. Wasn’t worth waiting for anyway!

Tallpaul
Subscriber

You don’t just ‘skip’ Phase I trials… Which vaccines/companies are you referring to?

Good point, my mistake. So the animal testing is being skipped for some candidates; CanSino did 2 weeks(?) of Phase I testing with 100 participants, and hadn’t released data before starting Phase II at the start of April. I think they have now released the Phase I data and they’re not saying there were any significant risk factors from the data.

So if and when the Covid vaccine becomes available it really is a No Brainer.

I think that about sums it up, no brainers tend to get their medical advice from Facebook or the pub rather than from the medical profession.

“But it’s not a vaccine if it works against Bacteria.”

– what, like the vaccine against typhoid?

It is a vaccine if it stimulates your immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease. That’s what the CDC say and I guess they should know.

I believe that we overvaccinate in this country, I have refused some even tho I had to sign a waiver at work and I will be standing in the queue for this vaccine the day it is released

Have warned my kids that I’ll be refusing a Covid vaccine and am prepared to go to prison for exercising my personal choice.

Yep, that’s what we need to be spending tax revenues on – prisons full of David Icke disciples.

I think if a vaccine arrives whilst its still likely to be effective we should be given a vaccination passport which is needed to fly, use public transport or attend events with large numbers of people.

vaccine against typhoid

EDIT – oh, it’s not worth it

But also due to weakening

Those articles don’t mean the virus is weakening, there are lots of reasons that would explain it as the articles state – other external factors.

The reasons for this steep and continual decline in the deaths per day in the hospital of patients with COVID-19 are unknown and should be explored.

The Guardian this morning had an article reporting in shocked (shocked!) tones that 1 in 6 Brits reckon they wouldn’t take a coronavirus vaccine if/ when it’s developed, and a further 1 in 6 aren’t sure.

Frankly 4-5 out of 6 taking it would be a result. Anthony Fauci the director of the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases reckons that even if a successful vaccine were developed it wouldn’t work in the USA because a third of the population would refuse it because they are anti-vaxers or think its Bill Gates’ mind control serum

Have warned my kids that I’ll be refusing a Covid vaccine and am prepared to go to prison for exercising my personal choice.

Don’t worry I’m sure a combination of aromatherapy and positive thinking will protect you just like it does against polio, measles, mumps and meningitis.

Have warned my kids that I’ll be refusing a Covid vaccine and am prepared to go to prison for exercising my personal choice.

I feel sorry for your children, having to be ashamed because their mother is a conspiracy theorist

I believe that we overvaccinate in this country

how so?

But then I’m the sort of saddo who gets upset when people say vaccine in reference to a bacterial infection.

Interesting

I’ve never come across a stricter definition of vaccine/vaccinate to mean only virus – or is it tighter than that – does it have to be a live virus? Is attenuation allowed or must it be a similar but naturally less virulent virus? Does it only refer to vaccinia?

What should we call viral particulate vaccines, bacterial ones,
I suppose we’ve got “toxoids” for, err toxoids

Its a conversation for another day really

flu vaccine is pushed hard on us at work despite not being terribly effective ( and this is not to stop us passing it on its to reduce sick leave), Hep Vaccines are pushed as well tho areas I work in will not come into contact with them and with halfway decent control measures we do not get infected anyway. I was pushed to get Rubella – again I am highly unlikely to come into contact with it or with pregnant women ( or no more so that the general population)

Its a cost / benefit analysis ( not financial cost) across populations and I am not sure we have that balance right with understated downsides and overstated upsides.

I personally also have some immune system damage and react badly to inoculations of any sort

interesting

It’s what my tutor at uni taught me; it applied to live or inactive viral vacccines. No bacterial vaccines, and definitely no protoctista, as we used to call them
That was a parasitology degree.

The bacterial and protoctista preventative measures were antitoxins, innoculations or immunisations. Or just long term prophylatics. So, for instance, the Tentanus Vaccine isn’t a vaccine, as you need a booster every 10 years, or after an injury. You don’t need that with a proper vaccine.

but it’s a niche subject, and niche terminology differentation. So there are more important things to argue about

Its a cost / benefit analysis ( not financial cost) across populations and I am not sure we have that balance right with understated downsides and overstated upsides.

I see your point. I would have thought there would be a body in place to look at the evidence, some one like NICE where the benefits and risks are weighed up.

Refusing the vaccine based on ‘choice’ and no other grounds? Not cool. I’d be distinctly unsure of a brand new vaccine, and not happy about taking it – but I would. Because that’s what the world (literally) and our country needs us to do and I am not one of those people who doesn’t bother to do stuff because ‘it’ll be ok someone else will do it’.

Well said molgrips.

Please note I said that I would have the corona virus inoculation without a second thought

It’s what my tutor at uni taught me; it applied to live or inactive viral vacccines

Your uni lecturer was a numpty lol

The bacterial and protoctista preventative measures were antitoxins, innoculations or immunisations

what do you use to immunise someone?

I believe that we overvaccinate in this country

yes we spend too much time preventing disease and death in this country

These two imply it’s getting better; could be due to all the most susceptible people dying already of course. But also due to weakening

Interesting. It has been puzzling me for a while how the USA case rate has gone through the roof but the death rate continues to trend downwards. I assumed it was because more people are being tested, but I’m not sure this is the case as there have been lots of complaints about testing not being good either. So maybe the weakening explains it.

It has been puzzling me for a while how the USA case rate has gone through the roof but the death rate continues to trend downwards

death rate isn’t totally linked to infection rate. The people that are likely to die are probably staying indoors where as other people have been ignoring lock downs, rioting and protesting thus increasing infection rates. Death rates will also lag behind infection rates.

New cases have only been rising for the past week in USA states, no? Didn’t we have a full discussion about the expected lag between rising cases and rising deaths over in the other thread, months ago?

Edit: by bad, I hadn’t realised cases had been rising for weeks now.

Hmm… looking at individual states, there are lot of different patterns, deaths in Arizona (the first state I looked at) rising starkly, in many others the deaths are falling fast.

And for people who are too selfish to vaccinate themselves or their kids, what about those who are unable to do so (chemo patients and others who are neutropenic or otherwise immunosuppressed) and rely on herd immunity?

We will be lucky if these people actually make it long enough to see the vaccine develop.
There is a big responsibility for these deaths on Johnson ending shielding and any support for shielding.
And at the same time opening schools with the misinformation that children can’t spread covid.

It’s almost as if he’s spotted a gap in the morgue and decided to Get It Done.

what do you use to immunise someone?

I’ll just leave this here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immunization

vaccination is an active form of immunization.

ie there are other forms of immunization

molgrips Subscriber
Refusing the vaccine based on ‘choice’ and no other grounds? Not cool. I’d be distinctly unsure of a brand new vaccine, and not happy about taking it – but I would. Because that’s what the world (literally) and our country needs us to do and I am not one of those people who doesn’t bother to do stuff because ‘it’ll be ok someone else will do it’.

Well said and pretty much how I feel!