- Upgrading road wheels ~£400
Stans Alpha 340 or 400’s depending on you’r weight/power. Although I’ve go the original 340’s (the light ones) and after rebuilding them taking more time over the tensioning they’re perfectly stiff enough.
Novatech (Mr Ride / Sokin or unbranded on ebay, usualy 288g/pair or thereabouts)
Either DT Revs or aero spokes depending on budget, propper oval ones mind you, the cheeper DT squared off ones made by flattening a round spoke are apprently no more areo than Revs, just heavier.
I built mine for about £250, you could go quite a bit cheeper with A23 rims for example (or the XR200’s, I took a while typing that and crossed posts).
Only problem is future proofing, I don’t think there’s anyone selling 11s shimano freehub bodies novatech hubs yet and they’re not interchngeable. Depends if 11s is somethign you’d want in the next couple of years. The hubs are only £60 though, so if you wear the rims out in a couple of years then buying new ones won’t break the bank.
RS-80’s are 10s too, hence the price difference between them and the nearly identical RS-81 which is the 11s freehub.Posted 4 years ago
Yea.. based on reading roger mussons book he said not to bother with cx rays or spokes with 2/1.5/2 gaugePosted 4 years ago
wouldn’t use 2/1.5/2mm in road wheels because they twist too much and are difficult to tension and consequently many of the wheels you see built with these spokes are under tensioned. for lightweight sports wheels i’ve started using dt competition 1.8/1.6/1.8
Hmmmm, I’ve always thought weighting the wheel sideways to unwind any spokes then re-true, repeat, etc. Was supposed to avoid that? I used a tension meter and they came out within 20% of each other, the highest tension being the max Stans recomended so I stopped adding turns when the first spoke reached that, so most are arround 90-95% and a few more/less arroud the valve hole and the joint.
I did have a front spoke unwind completely on friday though! Which I kinda put down to using grease rather than locking compound on the threads during the build. But I’ve never had MTB spokes do that.Posted 4 years agonjee20Subscriber
No point in Novatech hubs if you’ve got the budget for Hope or PMP or Dura Ace or whatever.
Except the Novatecs are lighter.
Don’t use Rev spokes on your back wheel either.
Is there that much difference between a 1.8/1.5/1.8mm Rev and a 1.8/1.6/1.8 Competition!? That’s not a standard Competition anyway, they’re 2.0/1.8/2.0.
Also if you read the book roger says there’s no real point trying save weight on spokes.. it makes naff all real world difference.
Champions – 359g
Competitions – 311g
Aerolites – 278g
That’s 264mm, so MTB length, but still 81g, people get het up about far less!Posted 4 years ago
Push the budget – a pair of Royce hubs on decent rims and DT Swiss DB Comp spokes for around £500-550 but will be the best wheels you’ve ever ridden.
Things of absolute beauty.
If the budget doesn’t stretch and £400 is the tops – Ksyrium Equipe S.
Danny BPosted 4 years agogeetee1972Member
Push the budget – a pair of Royce hubs
Mmmmmmm, yes please.
I would second all the comments about going with handbuilts at this budget. You can get something special that will last a life time and be super reliable. You’re also spoilt for choice with good builders:
David Hunt (DCR)
All these guys have excellent reputations and great knowledge. There are lots of really good modern clincher rims available but while the H Plus Son Archetype and Velocity A23 are excellent (I have the Archetype myself), the classic Mavic Open Pro and Ambrosio Excellight are hard to beat if a little old fashioned now.
I wouldn’t go with Hope hubs; never been a fan really and I don’t think they are at all well made, they just look pretty and have great spares availability. They are also CNCd so not as strong as a forged hub shell like you would get say a Shimano hub. Ambrosio hubs are excellent for the money (again they have a slightly retro look) as are the Novatecs. Speak to Harry Rowland and he will tell you that you can pay a lot more for hubs that will be of lesser quality.
In my view you’re better off putting money into the spokes and thereby reducing the weight. The Sapim CX Ray spokes are pricey but they super strong, fatigue resistant and very light. I have both my road and mtb wheels built with them.Posted 4 years agoMrSmithMember
Handbuilts have their positives without a doubt but in pure performance terms my current pair of Shimano wheels perform better than an equivalent pair of handbuilts (built by an excellent builder).
a meaningless unquantifiable statement. how exactly do they perform better?Posted 4 years ago
if i were to build a pair of handbuilts with wider rims like a velocity A23 i could argue that they perform better because of the proven better rolling resistance due to the better tyre profile and the lower pressures/carcass deformation the wider rims allow. the shimano wheels may have more freewheel pick-up points or be 25g lighter so by definition they are “better”. 🙄
real world weight, ie i weighed the wheel i built on the kitchen scales.
32 DT comps, Campag Daytona Hub and Ambrosio Excellight, 801grams, no skewer. I haven’t weighed the rear hub but i believe it is a bit more than 100grams more than the front.
So that gives me a 1700gram wheel set. that should be reliable.
DT revs would get c150 off that so a 1550gram wheelset.
Current generation Campagnolo record hubs are no heavier, compatible with shimano and campagnolo with the right freehub body. come with loose bearings rather than cartridges.
Dura-ace are silly money but nice, and like all shimano hubs have a better bearing placement than almost all hubs on the market.
Depends on what you want from a wheel though, weight, durability, aero, etcPosted 4 years ago
@geetee – I have the Royce hubs – just lovely. Spin the front and you ‘hear’ how quite and smooth the bearing is (yes I know that makes no sense but when you try one you’ll see exactly what I mean).
Cliff is a top bloke as well – always happy to answer any questions and gives sound advice.
@Thisisnota… – Not heard of any complaints re: the Equipes. Know a few people with them and they all seem pretty happy for the money.
Danny BPosted 4 years ago
@njee20 it comes down to what you want from a hub and from the wheel. and how much money you have to burn, and the buy british thing for some.
Whether any hub is worth £950… personally i wouldn’t spend that much. I would get Record hubs if it was my money because i would rather stick to cup and cone.Posted 4 years agorootes1Member
i got some of these just
they had these as well but more than I wanted to pay
came within 3 days.Posted 4 years agogeetee1972Member
Heavy too – even their £950 ‘Racing’ hub set are significantly heavier than £80 Novetecs! Having played with a couple of pairs I don’t get them, at all!
They are heavy; I have been told by several different people that the compelling reason for having them is reliability. If you want a set of hubs that you can use all year round with minimal maintenance, then the Royce are hard to beat. The Chris King R45s, like other CK hubs, need a reasonable amount of TLC even if they are lighter and perhaps a bit ‘faster’.Posted 4 years ago
Haven’t touch my Royce hubs since I got them 4 pr 5 years ago and still buttery smooth.
As the weight of the hubs is in the centre of the wheel they make very little difference to the effort needed to spin them up which is more influenced by rim weight.
Yes, if you’re going for a weight weenie contest winner perhaps leave them alone but it you want a beautifully crafted, bombproof set of hubs from a ‘proper’ British engineering firm (I like such things) they’re hard to beat.
Nice blog here – http://www.velominati.com/tradition/royce/
And no, I wouldn’t pay £950 for the ‘racing’ version.
Danny BPosted 4 years agomoomanMember
thisisnotaspoon – Member
Only problem is future proofing, I don’t think there’s anyone selling 11s shimano freehub bodies novatech hubs yet and they’re not interchngeable.
Novatech do an 11speed hub. They provide a spacer to fit the 10speed cassettes too .. much as mavic do.
As for Novatech having shite bearings … how much would a replacement set of bearings cost anyways? … not that the bearings feel shite to me.
ps.Posted 4 years ago
I got 2 novatech rear 10speed hubs for sale. 1 red & 1 black .. £20 posted.tenacious_dougMembercrikeyMember
Really cannot understand this obsession with wheels, and especially all the handbuilt by wizards stuff. When I raced, we all raced on 3 cross 32 spoke Mavic open pros on Ultegra or Campag hubs and no one was winning because of their wheels.
It’s the same story today, lightweight wheels will not make you faster; riding faster will make you faster.
Gotta love the Mavic dissing too; I’ve just binned a pair of Mavic Ksyriums, the original Ksyriums, from when they first came out. Been raced, been crashed, been raced again, I think they were 9 years old.
‘But you can’t get the spokes’
You don’t need the spokes because they don’t break in my experience.
Anyway, as you were…Posted 4 years ago
When I raced, we all raced on 3 cross 32 spoke Mavic open pros on Ultegra or Campag hubs and no one was winning because of their wheels.
Yes, because you all raced on the same wheels.
These days, a set of 50mm carbon rims or some light weights could be the difference between a gold and silver time at a sportive.Posted 4 years ago
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