davidjones – I saw that post but it is no answer.

Does anyone think this is an answer?

“come on – why should police work unpaid overtime?”

Of course TJ, you’re absolutely right. Why should anyone do overtime? The answer is very simple, to promote efficiency and improvements. If there is no competition people will stagnate and become lazy, if people can not lose their job, they will become complacent.
Competition is good, a move to a more competitive environment is not selling out to the cheapest bidder.

so tell me – how does the police working unpaid overtime ( remember they already work compulsory overtime) lead to efficiency and improvements?

You claim competition is good – even if this is accepted then where is the competition coming from? Who are the police competing with?

How does the police working unpaid overtime lead to competition that doesn’t happen if the work paid overtime which they already do.

Competition? If someone works along side you and I have to promote one of you, I’ll promote the guy who goes the extra yard and not the gob shite who constantly spouts on about contract law and percieved rights and wrongs and refuses to work an extra second without being paid their overtime. But of course there is no wastage when everyone gets a promotion and pay rise irrespective of input and only based on length of service. Now there’s efficient.
Surely one as smart as you can actually see that, I don’t expect you to accept it, just see it. It’s not a weakness to see other points of view.
It’s not a victory when the opposition isn’t fighting.
Until you can learn to discuss without ridiculing or insulting….. I’m out.

the important thing will be that crime will come down ?

davidjones15 – Member

Until you can learn to discuss without ridiculing or insulting….. I’m out.

You have just accused him of looking after the old, frail and vulnerable, inefficiently and only for his own personal profit.

Was that some sort of complement then ?

the important thing will be that crime will come down ?

Where is the insult to you davidjones?

Can you answer the question?

Where is the insult to you davidjones?

Did I say you had insulted me?
Did I? It’s your general abuse of other forum users who have the audacity to have a different opinion to you. It’s really quite sad.

Can you answer the question?

I’m disappointed in you TJ. Is that the only reply you have?

I am hoping for an answer. You have still not given any answer why the police should do unpaid overtime. Remember overtime is compulsory to the police. How does the fact one cop will do this without claiming the hours make him any better performing. All cops do the overtime – its compyulsory

As always STW gets hold of a story and starts making up the rest,
the police isnt being privatised the forces in question are investigating ways in which the private sector can take over lots of the roles of the police.
no threat to front line service,
Unfortunately the police service in West Yorkshire is terrible and Id be happy for any improvement in its service.
I have had to threaten police in order for them to make an arrest and recover a stolen bike being sold on ebay. and as for response to burglaries, they dont even come to you, so if anyone came out it would be an improvement. And dont forget a lot of investigative work is done by non police now anyway, as your average copper isnt that bright and cant be expected to understand a lot of criminal activity anyway.

dont forget a lot of investigative work is done by non police now anyway

Are you – seriously – defending the decision to privatise the Forensic Science Service?

Are you – seriously – defending the decision to privatise the Forensic Science Service?

i cant recall making any statement about that maybe you want to re-read my comments

Hang on a sec, the FSS is a government owned company, so what difference does it make.

you want to re-read my comments

You re-read ’em, trigger. Let me help:

a lot of investigative work is done by non police now anyway

so where do I mention the FSS.
there is a lot of investigative work done on cases (without the FSS – which is govt owned) by non public sector people who are not the police.

so where do I mention the FSS

You don’t have to. Investigative work would frequently include them.

Are you – seriously – defending the decision to privatise the Forensic Science Service?

Why not? They’re only human beings after all. 😆
Seriously. I think that privatizing can only be bad it will only lead to corruption and lies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/feb/27/police-cover-up-phone-hacking-leveson 😆
Public health workers are also something to be admired.
Nobody’s perfect.

I have had to threaten police in order for them to make an arrest …..

And you think a private firm wouldn’t have treated you so shabbily ? What do you base that on ?

your average copper isnt that bright

You really have no idea have you ?

Are you still living in the 1970s ?

there is a lot of investigative work done on cases (without the FSS – which is govt owned) by non public sector people who are not the police.

Really? who and where?

Note that this proposal; is to privatise core functions not just peripheries

Private companies could take responsibility for investigating crimes, patrolling neighbourhoods and even detaining suspects under a radical privatisation plan being put forward by two of the largest police forces in the country.

do you really want private companies with the right to arrest?

Hang on a sec, the FSS is a government owned company, so what difference does it make.

Didn’t they go on strike recently meaning things stopped for a while .Possibly important things

TJ, you are running away with it again with your paranoid mind.

no one is privatising front line policing.

comp pro we want to come see you next week

teachers go on strike not much different

Sancho – who is doing this and where.

there is a lot of investigative work done on cases (without the FSS – which is govt owned) by non public sector people who are not the police.

~The proposal is to do just that – privatise front line =policing – look at the link in the first page

Public health workers are also something to be admired.

They’re all mass murderers ? 😯

there is no proposal to do front line policing ie power of arrest etc
there are loads of people doing investigative work on cases, there are civvies doing cold case reviews, I know as a friend does it.

It might be more prolific than you think, ernie.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/have-you-ever-killed-someone/page/3#post-3551841
😆

Sancho – Member

TJ, you are running away with it again with your paranoid mind.

no one is privatising front line policing.

What do you call “front line policing” ? Patrolling neighbourhoods and detaining suspects ?

UK police ask private security firms to walk beat

so please tell me where are non police private sector companies doing investigative work?

don simon – Member

😆

Yes, it’s a good one don simon.

TJ a friend of mine is a civilian who is a serious crimes investigator, conducts interviews and all sorts.

Ker-ching!!

Chairman of said (& well-placed) company writes article about how it’s all ok – how very surprising.

Pigface, civilians work all over police forces, 3 of my friends do but aren’t policemen. Only one is not employed by Devon and Cornwall Police. Is your friend employed by the police or subcontracted out?

Civilain police employee or employee of a non police private comany?

Employed by the police based in Guilford now.

You have still not given any answer why the police should do unpaid overtime. Remember overtime is compulsory to the police.

Overtime is compulsory in the Army, Navy & RAF – they don’t get paid for it TJ, and they get paid less than the police too.

Funnily enough – its worth mentioning that a private, profit making company has been directing police policies, investigations and resources for years now, without anyone complaining – ACPO 😉

Pigface – so still accountable to the police forces adnd not profit driven. Police forces have always employed civilians – thats not an issue. handing over core functions to outside companies is. accountability becomes blurred

handing over core functions to outside companies is. accountability becomes blurred

Core Areas?

The ACPO uniformed operations business area leads the national direction and development of all policing involving uniformed operations in areas as diverse as police use of firearms, through to public order and drink-driving.
or:

Over the past several years, ACPO (TAM) has overseen the development of the ACPO counter-terrorism network, a series of dedicated counter terrorism policing units that have been established across England and Wales

Whats that about private companies running the police TJ?

TJ working for the police as an employee or through a third party makes no difference, youre still accountable to the police.

Sancho – wrong. accountability is blurred if you are working for a third party and you will not be subject to police disciplinary procedures.

It makes a huge differnce

Sancho – wrong. accountability is blurred

How can you say it is wrong and that it’s blurred in the same sentence? 🙄
Would a third party company with bad discipline recored risk the contract as a whole rather than just a single job?