Any ultra runners on here? I have a hankering to run the west highland way in the next couple of years and wonder if any of you have done similar distance.

I’m not a runner, although I do the occasional run in winter and I’m okay at it. I really do like the idea of doing a big distance though.

I’m fairly fit so just need to get my running legs sorted.

ooooh me too. been doing 20 miles plus on runs, up to last week when I sprained my ankle 😥

Finding it hard to carry stuff like water and food/gels though.

From what I’ve read 20 mile back to back runs seems to be the kind of distance people are doing for training. That’s handy as I live 20 miles from my office.

I would have thought a bum bag would be the best way to carry stuff. I would have support crew though.

I ran the Grand Raid des Pyrenees (50 mile, 5000m ascent) last year. My longest training run was 27 miles, and that’ll be the same for me going back there this year. It all depends what you’re trying to accretive, I was just out to finish and wasn’t fighting for a podium, was out for just shy of 23hrs but loved every minute of it. To me, it’s more about getting your head right and keeping it right. Time in the legs is important, but the legs only do what the head tells them to…

Yeh I agree about the head thing but I’m fairly strong mentally and don’t give up easily.

Great to hear a few madcap runners on here. I’m not a regular ultra runner but i have done a few ultras in the past few years (Keswick to Barrow 40miles, local race round Bristol 50miles and a few coast to coast adventure races – 140miles run bike kayak). Not sure what the highland way distance would be but for all my events my max training run was only <30miles. Anything after that I think is mind over matter as you’re not doing anything near 8min/9min miles more just plodding along (btw first rule is you walk up the serious hills!).

On the resupply front, normally any events will have water stops as a minimum (OMM might be an exception) so all I’ve ever needed is my Camelpak Mule which does a grand job of fitting everything in/on.

If you’re intested Endurance life run a few events down in the south west and there is also the scotland coast 2 coast adventure race in Glencoe if you fancy a challenge.

Thanks for the info mcwyc. Does a rucksack not rub or bounce around and start to annoy after a few miles? I wouldn’t be doing the west highland way run as an event just a personal challange. It’s 96 miles.

Finding it hard to carry stuff like water and food/gels though.

I wear the same gear as when biking, i.e. camelbak type stuff. Ultra light and pretty much never in the way.

Done a couple; got a 97 mile/27000ft effort coming up shortly.

Training- there’s quite a bit of stuff out there that suggests that runs over 2.5 hours is only beneficial from a mental toughness point of view and has little physiological benefit. I’d certainly throw in at least an 8 hour mountain run before having a pop at a 50 miler.

Carrying stuff- camel bak stuff would be fine but getting a running specific sack would save you a great chunk of weight and waist pouches are very handy.

Best bit of advice I’ve ever had is don’t run up anything at the beginning of a race that you wouldn’t run up at the end.

I find the key to reducing rucksack wobble is to not have too big a bag and to keep the shoulder straps nice and tight. Some of the Salomon bags are decent size but have a bungee system that pulls it all together reducing the chance of things bobbling around inside.
96m is one hell of a distance by foot on your own, you’ll have to plan you stops/water carefully. I was gonna do hadrians wall ultra (69m) in a day but didn’t have the time/guts to train for it!

I’ve done a 100k, 130k and one epic just shy of 190kms’s, as well as lots of 600-800km expedition races. There is a head element to it and also a physiology element to stop overuse injuries. Nutrition is also important more from a multi-hour run when your body starts to reject things so you need to know what to do. And also what quality drugs you can use !I’m quite keen on a tour de mont blanc race somewhere along the way. Good advice on the running up hills front, a solid walk up is just as effective, changing stride patterns and mainly running offroad are all good practices.

Thanks for the info mcwyc. Does a rucksack not rub or bounce around and start to annoy after a few miles? I wouldn’t be doing the west highland way run as an event just a personal challange. It’s 96 miles.

I know it’s about as far from an ultra as you can get but I run 10km regularly with an Aarn Marathon rucksack; the best running pack I’ve tried in terms of fit and ventilation – properly adjusted there’s no bounce or irritating movement. They also have excellent ‘balance packs’ which sit to the front for water bottles etc.

They’re not cheap though and not the most readily available in the UK.

There’s a few people at work who run marathons more regularly and they all use OMM packs.

One piece of advice I was given when I started working up to ultra distance was ‘spend lots of time on your feet’, I found that bit easy at the time as I spent 90% of my working day standing!

pebblebeach – Member

I have a hankering to run the west highland way in the next couple of years

Is it the West Highland Way Race that sparked your hankering? It sounds totally bonkers, but totally bonkers in a good way. It’s higher up my imaginary bucket list than the London Marathon, and not too far behind a triathlon.

Is it the West Highland Way Race that sparked your hankering?

No not all, I didn’t even know it existed until Monday. I walked a bit of the whw at the weekend and the idea came into my head.

I use the OMM 3l bumbag regularly and an OMM 15l sac on long runs occasionally. Both are fine and recommendable. The sac is more comfy than an old camelbak Mule I’ve used.

This is my mate Colin’s site: http://www.colinfitzjohn.com/
He is big on Ultra running. He took part in the JOGLE the other year and completed the Hardmoors 110 a couple of days ago.

Done ultras from 30-100m and mostly XC. Frankly the training doesn’t differ as over 30m it becomes as much a mental as a physical thing. Normal mara training but with a few more back-to-back long runs to get legs used to running tired.

Some keys:

1. Good shoes – naturally, but it took me time to realise that good makes like Innov8 dont work for me over 30m – get PF every time
2. Pacing – experiment with run-walk strategies and I like the idea above of dont run things at the start that you wont run at the end. Under 30m, I tend to go with 9min/1min RW strategy but this extends to 10/5 on 50mile plus. Walk is not slow walking, its fast walk plus refueling time. Mentally great as you break things down into 10 minute sections ie not that far away from 1 break per mile
3. Nutrition – gels etc fine for short stuff but I need variety over distance and some savoury stuff
4. Sacs – any well known makes OMM, Raidlight, Salomon, N Face, Haglofs even Camelback have run versions that are easy to run in. I use smaller sac plus waste belt that is easy to access.
5. Your brain – on a 50miler expect at least 2 real lows. You will get through them and this is where experience comes in. Don’t think sh!t, I have run 20m and still have 30m to go. Just focus on each section at a time. This is where run/walk works well for me.

Enjoy!!

Lakeland 100 for a great UK event – surprisingly many rate harder than UTMB!!

Great advice, thanks.

get PF every time what’s PF?

Plantar Fasciitis

The whole walking and running seems like cheating to me. Does everyone do this? Even on distances like 30miles?

Emsz, it is cheating because it makes you race faster 😉 I tried it first in Thames Path Ultra and Thames Path Meander – old 50m races that were a month apart but on same basic route – Reading to Shepperton/Hampton Court.

It is such fun, to slow and refuel and let the others go ahead – scary first few time – and then reel them back in and gradually leave them behind. Its a great tactic (as is walking uphills) that helps you achieve fast times and excellent for training. Of course the hares hate it when the tortoises cruise past!!!

(p.s. 50 year old+ mate of mine uses RW in normal maras (20-30 secs every mile market up to 20m) and he’s a regular <3:15 guy!)

Emsz, all my ones (and most my training) involve mountains. Even the sharp end of the field do a fair bit of walking when there’s big hills to get over. It’s not cheating it covering the ground in the fastest most efficient manner.

looking at my last one there’s 6.15 min/miles in there and 24.23 min/miles in there all being mixed up, so if you’re used to beating a tune out at 7 min/miles then be prepared for a world of stitch and cramp. I have no idea about flat courses by the way but I cant get my head around the run/walk being faster – the psychological advantages of breaking up the time would be wasted by the other side of my brain criticising the obvious disadvantages of changing pace for no reason at all.

One of the best bits of advice I got for GRP last year -“think of it as a long walk. That way, every step you run is a bonus. If you think of it as a run, every step you walk will be depressing.”

Worked for me!

That was with 5000m of ascent in only 50 miles though………that would need a whole heap of walking.

‘I’m not a runner, although I do the occasional run in winter and I’m okay at it. I really do like the idea of doing a big distance though.’

Would suggest you look at it as being a two year training program at least. It’s far from just knocking the mileage up each week until you’re putting in regular marathons. Find someone experienced, willing and wise enough to know this and use them to keep yourself on track with a sound program.

I good friend of mine managed a 33 mile, 7000ft ultra with only 8 weeks of training. Didn’t break any records but finished comfortably in the top 60% of the field. Was never a runner before he started the training and was of moderate fitness. Now he’s considering selling his bike and is as fit as a butchers dog.

As long as your expectations are realistic and you have a good level of fitness I can’t see why this couldn’t be achieved next spring.

Friend of mine does a bit – Marathon des Sables, three 100 milers in three months in 2010… except he didn’t finish Leadville due to his hip almost snapping in two from a stress fracture.

His blog is here – lots of the recent stuff is more about his surgery/recovery/rehab and his wifes recent hole in the heart issue and repair (and she’s done MdS too).

http://www.the-poms.com/richard/

EDIT – I’ve just re-read a bit and he won the Cotswold 100 in 2010!

seanoc – Member

As long as your expectations are realistic and you have a good level of fitness I can’t see why this couldn’t be achieved next spring.

+1

Before I got into ultras I read Mike Stroud’s Survival of the Fittest and that left me in no doubt about getting round. The training was just about how much was enjoyed rather than endured!!

Tried running this morning, got about 12 steps before I had to stop, it was soooo painful.

sprained ankle last week, feels sore still, and now ankle has swollen up again. How long before I can run?

Sorry to hear that emsz – usual RICE to recover, cant be rushed I’m afraid. Tried that with PF and learned the hard way! Heal well!

Friend of mine does a bit – Marathon des Sables, three 100 milers in three months in 2010… except he didn’t finish Leadville due to his hip almost snapping in two from a stress fracture.

Are overuse injuries inevitable or was he just unlucky?

I ask merely from interest not because I fancy doing it.

recommend reading ‘the ghost runner’

That to me T1000?

If so, thanks.

EDIT – just looked at it on Amazon, looks a good read.

Born to Run is an entertaining read about ultra racing, I’m not entirely convinced by the author’s arguments against the use of padded running shoes, but it doesn’t detract too much from the story.

The best ultra running textbook is probably Relentless Forward Progress

The name of it gives away the main principle of doing ultras, just keep moving forward in the best way possible, be that running or walking.

[dangerousbeans – Member]
That to me T1000?

If so, thanks.

EDIT – just looked at it on Amazon, looks a good read.

Yes + anyone who wants to read a good topic related book.

(I read it because I worked with Johns brother Vic for 10yrs, and the description of Vic is spot on + lots of the guy’s there had known John well and he was a frequent topic of discussion…)

Are overuse injuries inevitable or was he just unlucky?

I ask merely from interest not because I fancy doing it.

Probably a tricky one to answer, in that distance running for a lot of people seems to involve ignoring pain messages from your body a lot, and I guess once you start going down that path on a regular basis, then it gets pretty hard to evaluate whether you’re harming your body or making it stronger.

There’s a runner who lives nearby and her concept of taking things easy to give an injury time to heal would be my concept of a hard exercise.
http://annakatfinn.blogspot.co.uk/

To the OP- I’m heavily involved in organising the West Highland Way race each year (June 23-24 this time- as close to the solstice as we can get it, for daylight reasons) and I know a number of hardy mountain bikers who have crossed over and succeeded. This event is more about the achievement than the final position in the race; a few big names from around the world have appeared and come slightly unstuck over the years. Every finisher receives an engraved crystal goblet to mark their achievement and to welcome them into the family. Applicants require a suitable background history or a list of verifiable achievements. Having finished a couple of Scottish ultras is a good enough start. There will be around 188 runners on the start line in two weeks’ time… Check out westhighlandwayrace.org and on facethingy.

Re: run/walk I did the same event recently as I’d run 12 months ago. This year I walked more of the hills, taking a breather to eat and recharge. I was about fifteen mins quicker, after stopping to help someone in a mess. Mind you I could just have been 15 minutes fitter this year.

Same principle fell running – sometimes you’re the same speed on the steeper stuff whether running and walking, but conserve more energy walking, and benefit from the change. I usually try to run them in training to beast myself, but happy to walk in races.