Not a lot of data on creatine to be honest. And the assessments are blunt instruments like peak power. Here’s a trial showing no benefit of protein supplement.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26949378/

A review of supplements here
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31531769/

Bicarbonate of soda has been tested as a buffering.

And porridge in a bag with apple sauce is my staple for 12hr TTs. Along with liquidised rice and tuna with Worcester sauce. You did ask. Rocket fuel I tell you. When racing I can’t chew but need a lot of calories.

And porridge in a bag with apple sauce is my staple for 12hr TTs.

Not a lot of data on creatine to be honest. And the assessments are blunt instruments like peak power.

Do you find excess weight/water retention issues with creatine? The prospect has always put me off it.

In previous years when I’ve been training* for an event I have taken protein recovery shakes (with Creatine) after each ride and I was sure that they had a positive effect on recovery. This year I’ve not done this, instead I try to drink plenty of water and try to eat something relatively wholesome like left overs from the evening meal, muesli with whole milk or a homemade protein shake (made of milk, yoghurt, fruit and peanut butter).

I’ve lost more weight this year but according to my scales a fair bit of that is also muscle which is a little worrying, I feel pretty decent though so that’s the main thing.

I forgot to mention that over the last few months I’ve had a few spells (lasting 4-5 days) where I have felt terrible, like all my muscles are fatigued. I just take it easy for a few days and eat well, drink plenty of fluids and get lots of rest then I feel strong again. Probably age related. 😢

*This is a loose term for my unplanned riding in circles around where I live on a variety of bikes based around my job, two children and whatever the wife has volunteered me for.

Isn’t Creatine found in some foods?

I could definitely go for the apple sauce porridge but I quite like stopping every hour or so to eat a cereal bar, have a toilet break and stretch my legs. My food of choice is Stoats porridge bars, 250 odd calories in one tasty bar.

Do you find excess weight/water retention issues with creatine? The prospect has always put me off it.

Isn’t Creatine found in some foods?

Yea, creatine is found in meat, fish that sort of stuff. Your body naturally stores phosphocreatine in muscle tissue which it then uses to create energy. Supplementing is popular with bodybuilders because it helps them get the extra rep or two and the end of a set. For cyclists its a bit of a trade off because of the extra water retention, i sometimes supplement it (mainly becuase im a part time veggie) and i notice about an extra killogram on the scales and an extra couple of seconds giving it hells bells on sprints.

I’m intrigued by the Ibuprofen. The sports physio I go to on and off has always been clear that it’s fine in the immediate term (ie at the pint of injury) but that it inhibits muscle recovery. People taking it to manage inflammation prior rather than in response to an injury are you concerned about any long term effects?

Pretty sure your physio is correct – I only take it when injured, and these days I try to minimise the amount I use. 10 years ago it was seen (here at least) as a very innocuous wonder drug, something you could neck daily without any ill effects. We seem to have moved on from there… As to long-term effects, afaik (and I’m not a doctor!) the main concern is damage to your stomach/intestines. To mitigate this I definitely avoid taking any on an empty stomach, although I should say that I’ve never personally noticed any problems.

Your body naturally stores phosphocreatine in muscle tissue which it then uses to create energy.

Dont start me off again, we had enough problems with the keto diet thread.

I used creatine+protein for a while when doing a lot of road racing, but it only really works to aid recovery on a high intensity training load. It was the difference between doing a 100 miler on Saturday and Sunday. Less sure of the benefits for endurance events because you’re less reliant on developing explosive strength.

will be fresher and make fewer mistakes than a strung-out caffeine-reliant or pill popping rider

I can tell you that twelve and twenty four hours on aero bars looking through your eyebrows is not great for a neck that’s carrying a twenty-year whiplash injury.

I’d say that’s a fair reason for some painkillers, no problem with that. When I say pill-popping it’s just meaning someone reliant on supplements over a longer event where the ups and downs can’t be handled otherwise. And I’d still not say it’s cheating if it’s a legal pill. Just a more tricky strategy. I couldn’t TT for 24hrs but when I’m talking about long events I mean a week and more where management of sleep patterns and fatigue/rest cycles add up, that’s where pills and stimulants might put you out of synch. All just more for the rider to balance up.

Having said all that, no-one wins the Trans-AM or TDR now on regular sleep patterns anyway, we’re almost 10 years past that. It’d take ex-pro speed vs the current crop of fast amateurs to do that I think. You need a high av speed to have the luxury of 5hrs sleep every night vs someone who can do without the sleep for 35-45hr stints and repeat that pattern with only 6hrs sleep in between.

I know that I’m no good at riding without sleep but I don’t need a lot, 90-120mins is probably enough. I rode through the night on the last day and a bit of the Highland Trail but the pace after being on the go for 20hrs was pitiful. There were also some weird hallucinations – Six weeks later I did the YD300 and at 200km grabbed what wasn’t much more than a power nap, probably 90mins of sleep, and my pace for the remaining 100km was equal to the first 100km. 29hrs for 300km on the YD300 vs 31hrs for 270km on the HT.

At 10kmh that 90mins (plus about 30mins faffing) would mean that someone riding with me at the same pace who could manage sleep deprivation and didn’t stop would be 20km ahead. Repeat over several days and you end up being a long way behind. In the case of the YD300 I’d have to ride at 12.5kmh to catch them up by the finish, i.e. 25% faster.

It would have been interesting to see Sofiane Sehili’s strategy on the HT550 this year had it gone ahead given he did the Atlas Mountain Race without sleep in four days.

was citrulline malate mentioned in this thread, im sure i saw something about it earlier, now its gone,

something to do with caffiene, beta alanine and citrulline malate

My pal is a chemist so if I really wanted to cheat I think I could get hold some good stuff. Just asking to see what other people use out of interest as I’m nosey.

I can’t see creatine really helping much in endurance events. It’s for building muscle mass – you need to haul that round with you! Maybe in training.

My guess would be anything to combat fatigue or physical depletion from extended activity.
So things which keep you awake – amphetamines etc, maybe EPO or similar to maintain physiology.
Some kind of synthetic ‘blood’ to carry more oxygen to the muscles.
Maybe some kind of ‘recovery’ agents to promote quick healing at the end of each day.
Cannister of Oxygen perhaps?!
https://www.drugs.com/drug-classes.html

I did adventure racing for a job. We used paracetamol, ibuprofen, codeine and tramadol quite a lot. We had teams with us that used anti-narcolepsy drugs to stay awake. We used pro plus and a cup of tea !