I was chatting about ultra endurance athletes and events to someone in passing and they believed that most if not all the fastest competitors are on PED’s or drugs like pain killers and anti-inflammatories.

You read how people can do almost superman efforts in some events with with little or no sleep and even whilst carrying injuries.

If you look at pro sports where there is drug testing you still find people taking drugs in order to gain an edge. What’s stopping people in events where there is either no or limited drug testing taking whatever they choose in order to win an event?

I’m a romantic and optimist at heart so want to believe it’s all hard work and mind over matter but I’m also not daft and know that some people will do crazy things to win even if there is no money at stake.

What’s your view on this and have you experienced anything yourself?

An experience I had with an ultra athlete he asked me on what schedule before event do I apply enema, I told him I don’t have one and he looked at me as if I was insane.

It’ll depend on where the PED line is set:

– caffine, how much? An espresso is ok but half a pack of Pro Plus is not.
– paracetamol, ibuprophen, codeine… where do you draw the line.
– amphetamines or alcohol

There will always be people who test and go beyond the boundaries set, and others that don’t.

I’ve known of drugs in sport all my life, as a 15 year old weightlifter a 21 year old in the club, lifted for GB and drugs (testosterone etc) were administered routinely during GB training camps, a schoolboy I knew of who used to race CX in Europe knew that if he carried on racing it would just be a “when” for him to start in order to keep the playing field level, he walked away and persued college instead, also used to know of a Cat1 roadie whose legs were a ripped work of art who had some random heart issues before leaving the sport…..

A couple of years ago I stood beside a group supporting a foreign runner (might have been Spanish but can’t remember) at the Glencoe skyline. They had laid all his stuff out in a line (pun intended) to make it easy for him to pick up. There was some food, mainly gels and about 6 different pills. Given the openness of that it’s probable none of it was illegal but it did strike me as odd, what could they all be?

Genuine question:

what schedule before event do I apply enema

Is that a banned practice?

What’s the “performance enhancing” benefit? or does it reduce the risk of sh*tt*ng yourself?

What the “performance enhancing” benefit? or does it reduce the risk of sh*tt*ng yourself?

Weight loss?

I sometimes think I’d take all the performance enhancers I could get if they just allowed me to ride as hard as I wanted as often as I wanted, injury free.

Now I’m just learning that riding slower all the time has a similar effect, it’s easy if you just ignore your average speed at theend 😁

I’m a romantic and optimist at heart so want to believe it’s all hard work and mind over matter

These days if I’m honest I tend to think that lots of competitors fall into 3 categories (those at the top of whichever sport it is) 1. naturally gifted with good genes who have enough of an edge never to have to take anything beyond pain medication and dietary supplements. 2 those just below that range who are probably pushing the regulations to the absolute limit to keep up with those in group 1 , and then the last group 3 who in some sports I’ve no doubt whatsoever that many are just supplementing their training with as much PED as they think they can get away with, as they are better than most normal folk, but have no other hope in catching or competing with those in groups 1 and 2.

I’d like to think that those in group 3 are being pushed by unscrupulous coaches or national teams, or have just found themselves through either age, ability, or injury failing to compete with groups 1 and 2 and perhaps have a family, sponsors to please…if they can just train through this injury…and then there’s some who just don’t give a shit and want to win regardless of how they get there. I think that last group is probably bigger than I’d like to believe though, sadly.

All sports will have those that use drugs.

What’s stopping people in events where there is either no or limited drug testing taking whatever they choose in order to win an event?

Ultimately, nothing.

What’s “acceptable” probably depends on the culture, national and sporting, you were raised in as much as your own personal inhibitions and ambitions. My wife and I went on an organised MTB trip to Peru, about half the clients were European, the other half were American/Canadian, all of us non-athletes just regular riders. The Americans would openly discuss how much Ibuprofen they would take each day, us Europeans were wide-eyed. As @qwerty says, it depends where you draw the line: nationally/internationally classed illegal drugs are obviously at one end of the scale, caffeine at the other.

A real grey area: is taking Aspirin/paracetamol for toothache OK? What about taking it to deal with general soreness?

On the 2019 Highland Trail a pack of prescription only drugs was found on the route (pretty much only the HT riders would be on that track), no-one admitted to them being theirs so Alan voided all results.

During the 1980s when I was doing high altitude Himalayan climbing Diamox appeared – it reduces the effects of altitude. I wasn’t interested in taking it because it had the distinct possibility of letting you get further into very dangerous terrain too quickly. Others were happy to. We had it on trips because it can also be used when AMS strikes and you need to get someone down to lower altitudes. For me it was there as a medicine not a crutch.

Watching Icarus on Netflix extinguished all hope that drug use in high level amateur endurance sport and above isn’t commonplace/required to be at comparable levels of performance.

Is that a banned practice?

What’s the “performance enhancing” benefit? or does it reduce the risk of sh*tt*ng yourself?

If anything it is more honest practice than using a suppository.
The performance benefit is optimised bowel strategy, not needing to toilet on course saves a chunk of time.

Just sharing 1st hand account experience on things ultra atheletes are prepared to do for win even when no money at stake.

Is using painkiller like ibuprofin banned practice?

There is research showing ibuprofen can increase the risk of kidney problems with ultrarunners. Especially if you are dehydrated already.
Quite a few ultramarathons are now banning it.

I don’t know if ibuprofen is officially ‘banned’ in any way but many ultra events have banned it themselves due to the health risks.

The Americans would openly discuss how much Ibuprofen they would take each day, us Europeans were wide-eyed.

I’d be wide eyed mainly because they probably don’t realise how much they are **** themselves up.

On the 2019 Highland Trail a pack of prescription only drugs was found on the route (pretty much only the HT riders would be on that track), no-one admitted to them being theirs so Alan voided all results.

What were they? Must be something quite spectacularly stimulating to justify that…

https://bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16872&p=213187

Tramadol

Partly that and partly because we couldn’t really believe that they were taking it as glibly as they were.

I can’t remember if Ibuprofen was ever prescription only here but I know that there’s differences in regulatory classifications either side of the Atlantic. On occasion I suffer from cold sores – I had a flare up whilst in Canada many years ago and went to the chemist to get some Zovirax only to be told that it was prescription only there.

What were they?

Codeine.

I stand corrected in light of Jambos post, opioid prescription medication used during the event wasn’t how the organiser envisaged his ethos being applied.

Watching Icarus on Netflix extinguished all hope that drug use in high level amateur endurance sport and above isn’t commonplace/required to be at comparable levels of performance.

Indeed..

There is research showing ibuprofen can increase the risk of kidney problems with ultrarunners. Especially if you are dehydrated already.
Quite a few ultramarathons are now banning it.

NSAID can quite easily lead to gastric issues if abused. Personally, I don’t take them at all. I prefer to rely on pain-killers with a different mechanism.

Tramadol

I’m impressed someone could ride on Tram – I could barely bloody talk…

I only got tested once in several years of 24 hour racing. That was at a world champs race in 2012. It was very exciting, peeing into a paper cup while being watched by a burly bearded chap. I thought I’d properly ‘landed’ as an athlete 🙂

In all the other 30-ish races I did there was no testing but I have witnessed one or two instances of amazing upturns in speed and performance in other riders, very late in the race. Like record lap times after 18 hours. Hmmm.

I used to drink loads of beetroot juice in the weeks before a race which does have a useful enema-like effect and drops some unnecessary weight. Every little helps.

We are talking 15 years ago but I knew a lady who did ultras and run on a mix of jelly babies and ibuburfen

Tramadol in the right dosage could be useful, I certainly felt pretty pepped up when I was taking it!

I’d be inclined to think though that someone was just trying to get through the event with an injury. Would almost have been better to self declare and just accept a footnote against your result or something!

Is Tramadol and Ibuprofen banned? Brufen started out prescription only in Blighty and now is seen almost as a panacea… Tram could have been used for an injury. Imagine training for that event then tweaking something in the run up. Anyone with a dicky back will recognise a sneeze or just putting your socks on can lead to an episode. Tram can help with that. I used it last year when I broke my neck. not competitively though 😉

@boblo – in that case you’d fess up and say so.

Tramadol was added to the banned list in early 2019. As with all these things though they don’t just get added overnight, there’s a lead-in period where currently permissible medication is on an “about to be banned” list to give anyone using it time to stop and for traces of it to exit their system.

@whitestone Fair enough. I dint know it had been banned. Thinking about it, wasn’t there a fuss with a tennis player using it a couple of years ago? Might be mis remembering.

If it is legal and has some performance benefit, assume every professional will be taking it. Hint. They’re professional. Those are the rules. Issues arise where rules change or products have contamination. Pros spend a lot of money on tested supplements to avoid this.

I take ibuprofen for 12hr TTs, 600mg loading dose then 200mg every two hours. It’s allowed and it works for me. I have no issues with the ethics of this. And some of you will be aware that I have a sideline on professional sports doping advice for the foremost sports lawyers in the business 🙂

Boblo that was meldonium and the rules changed but her coach failed to stop the supplement. She failed the next test and was banned.

PED’s or drugs like pain killers and anti-inflammatories

It’s kind of weird to smash them all together like that. There’s a world of difference.
You can pick up ibuprofen in a supermarket with minimal restrictions.

And some of you will be aware that I have a sideline on professional sports doping advice for the foremost sports lawyers in the business 🙂

Any chance of any freebie advice for a tubby 50-year-old tryhard?

12hrs/week in zone 2. Creatinine 1200mg/day, multivitamins, iron if you can stomach the side effects. Ibuprofen 400mg for evenings if your legs hurt. Eat less. Sorry there is no (Legal) magic. 😀

There is a reason why things get banned. And obvious drugs get put on the testing list years before they become approved medicines (or dropped from development e.g., SARMs).

Hmmm, I had some tramadol in my first aid kit for the ht550 in 2017, in case I broke a collarbone or something and had to hike out (but it was still there at the end so not mine hanging around for two years!). Mainly as it is an excellent painkiller! Prescribed for me when I was recovering from cancer surgery, but I wouldn’t fancy riding on it!

I thought the current thinking was to avoid Ibuprofen during training as it hampers the very adaptations we’re seeking to achieve?

What is creatinine good for?

Eat less. Sorry there is no (Legal) magic. 😀

Pfft…back to enemas it is then. 🙂

What is creatinine good for?

Muscle function/repair

Boblo that was meldonium and the rules changed but her coach failed to stop the supplement. She failed the next test and was banned.

That’s the one, Sharapova wasn’t it?

Pfft…back to enemas it is then. 🙂

Well you have to get your fun where you can don’t you? 😀

I’m impressed someone could ride on Tram – I could barely bloody talk…

I was given some tramadol once going home after an op, was **** awful, it was like being switched off for four hours. Bit like acid but with none of the fun bits.

Creatinine 1200mg/day

Unless you have some very specialist knowledge ?

Yes, sorry was a typo. I took a lot of tramodol after my accident. Terrible stuff. Vivid dreams. I tried one at the end of a road race once for an experiment -I’m no contender. It wasn’t great.

Low dose ibuprofen however is very good for muscle pain in endurance events.

West highland way race doc says ibuprofen is a no on that event (well strongly recommends against).
There’s always super human efforts in 24s and a few names have mutterings around them. I’d say they’d always podium whereas I rely on teammates and low entries to trouble the steps.

You may be surprised to learn that only one U.K. cyclist is currently serving a sanction.

https://www.ukad.org.uk/sanctions

Once served, the sanction becomes redacted. The cycling suspect was found to have some interesting substances. And a sixty yo TTer no less.

Now search on rugby 🙁

Cyclists get done for a variety, but mainly blood boosting medications (although the above was a more general bag of muscle building). Rugby, boxing, weightlifting, powerlifting are all on steroids. Motor racers get done for recreational drugs!

I used to carry a couple of Tramadol for emergencies in my kit when doing multi-day unsupported event in case I jiggered myself. Occasionally used to carry / take codeine for my back – no worries about enemas, it was a very effective ‘stopper’