UK's first Muslim Sectarian Murder ?

That’s not at all an accurate description of the IRA’s activity during the period of the graph: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Great_Britain

I thought you were in London during the height, they certainly targeted people.

Yes marquading territoriests are a significant threat but so is bombing. Yes some of those will be Spanish separatists but that’s the point, to date Islam extremists is far smaller than previous territorist attacks.

He indeed sounds like a role model for all of us in the UK

I’m sure he’d be delighted at you using his death to fear-monger and demonise Muslims.

konabunny – Member
I think this demonstrates the risk of Scotland not having control of its own borders due to British Union laws. We are powerless to stop foreign lunatics engaging in acts of terrorism.

Aye, we need a wall to keep all those foreign lunatics down south where they belong.

I thought you were in London during the height, they certainly targeted people.

Yes marquading territoriests are a significant threat but so is bombing. Yes some of those will be Spanish separatists but that’s the point, to date Islam extremists is far smaller than previous territorist attacks.

Name me one IRA attack that killed 150 civilians in a gun rampage?

Not only were there, and are far more white people in Europe to kill each other on a regular basis – hence the higher numbers but for example… IRA attacks were more likely to be directed at hard targets and the establishment, civilians were targeted to a lesser extent in terms of percentage of attacks.

Likely the only thing actually limiting Islamic terrorism from totally eclipsing the IRA is operational capability. The IRA built up such big numbers by the sheer volume of their attacks. They had a shit tonne of weapons from WW2 and guns smuggled to Ireland by American sympathisers, they had a lot of ex military men. They had the backing of a large part of the Irish peoples, were allowed to exist by the Republic of Ireland and had money flowing in from the States. Not to mention that the IRA had clear and limited political goals, where as the goal of ISIS is to retake Al-Andalus. In the UK, ISIS is currently reliant on mostly homegrown, poorly funded idiots, this will change given time.

Personally, I agree with Tony Blair 👿 if we let this carry on and let ISIS gain a long term stronghold – it’s simply a matter of time before a European city gets irradiated or glassed by a bucket of instant sunshine.

I consider myself a lefty – but the left is going to have it’s massive smirk wiped off it’s stupid face at some point in time.

IRA attacks were more likely to be directed at hard targets and the establishmen

Like pubs and shopping centres 🙄

Name me one IRA attack that killed 150 civilians in a gun rampage?

Ah! So it’s all about single events.

I see the thread for Islamaphobes is still going strong….

Pretty much yes – it conveys intention – the IRA could have killed thousands in a single attack, they didn’t because they actually had tangible and achievable political aims. I’ll say it again, weight the graph you posted for Europes 6 percent Muslim demographic and watch the graph change and then take into account the fact that ISIS will never achieve their political objectives (destabilisation of Europe) without resorting to ever larger attacks.

The longer we wait, the higher the casualties will be in an attempt to draw us into a ground war and unify their own people against us instead of them. We might as well just get on with it sooner than later, it’s simply inevitable unless you think that waiting for thousands of our own civilians to die is an acceptable loss to comfort your own ideological viewpoints.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the attacks have increased since we stopped keeping them occupied in their own backyards.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the attacks have increased since we stopped keeping them occupied in their own backyards.

Oh for **** sake.

That;s exactly what I think about your viewpoint Drac.

Got any better solutions, apart from swearing?

Wow.

I’m truly lost for words.

Wow.

Well it worked, didn’t it. AQ got so holed up in Afghanistan, they couldn’t do anything in the west for almost a decade.

‘m truly lost for words.

Okay, put a figure on how many people need to die in terrorist incidents for you to deem forcibly removing ISIS from their stronghold, acceptable?

Is that the Brussels stronghold where the last attackers backyard was?

Some of who’m travelled and trained and fought in Syria.

And Drac, let me clarify my position a bit – the more bombings and more refugees we get, the greater the rise of the far right in Europe. You will see more images of muslims being beaten by police at borders, more attacks on Muslims in the streets and this will invariably legitimise ISIS as they go about using that for propaganda. It’s a zero sum game for us, unless that is, we help secure and rebuild a country that is fit for people to return to – like we failed to do by ducking out early the first time around.

Before you make the point, “oh well, that will radicalise more Muslims” – take a look at your graph and note the years when we were occupying Iraq. Didn’t illicit much of a homegrown reaction did it?

@Drac yes I was in London at the height and the bombings there focused on destroying property and creating disruption as the IRA used codewords to give warnings so evacuations could take place. Yes they bombed pubs like the one in Guildford which was frequented by soldiers as it was opposite the bus stop from Aldershot. Yes some of the attacks where aimed at civilians but they where not the modus operandi. The nature of he Islamist threat Al-Q / IS or rogue indivudal is very different and more similar to the Spanish separatists who focused on mass murder

It is strange how people here seek to divert attention from the topic under discussion via sweeping misrepresentations like “Islamophobia” and “demonising Muslims”. Its a minority of the 2 billion Muslims worldwide who are responsible for the greatest terrorist threat we have ever faced. Whether that minority is 1%, 5%, 10% I don’t know.

If it was even 1% you’d know.

It is strange how people here seek to divert attention from the topic under discussion via sweeping misrepresentations like “Islamophobia” and “demonising Muslims”. Its a minority of the 2 billion Muslims worldwide who are responsible for the greatest terrorist threat we have ever faced. Whether that minority is 1%, 5%, 10% I don’t know.

It’s one Murder Jamby, 1. 1 murderer in this case so talk of something we need to stop is very premature.
It’s so much smaller than a minority it’s just about insignificant, if we catagorised all murders by motive it would probably make for some interesting reading. For instance in the good old US whats the count for having the wrong skin colour? Or in the UK for not doing what your told woman.

Now seems as good a time as any to post this again.

On the plus side, I’m warming to Drac, despite previous run ins

Before you make the point, “oh well, that will radicalise more Muslims” – take a look at your graph and note the years when we were occupying Iraq. Didn’t illicit much of a homegrown reaction did it?

You have to think of it in terms of feedback loops there immediate retaliation is unlikely, especially if the same propaganda is being promoted by the government installed by Western intervention… only once attrocities have been comitted, kids orphaned have grown up and the shock, fear and pain has tempered into hatred, will the backlash come into play.

Then of course there’s the false flag scenario, which given modus operandi of Stay Behind Networks in the mould of NATO’s Operation Gladio, are unfortunately all too likely.

Though the families of road accident victims don’t need to be warned by the police to be careful what they say in order to protect their security.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12205279/Murdered-Muslim-shopkeepers-family-fear-for-their-lives.html

Though the families of victims face the same threat from road traffic incidents, don’t they?

Referring back to an earlier post (sorry) I am not sure that describing the shopkeeper as Pakistani is really such a bad thing. It was not being used in a derogatory fashion – to jump on that as a bad thing is loaded with assumptions about Pakistanis, if you follow my logic. It was relevant in this context as the crime was said to be related to the person’s ethnicity and religion.

I think about this a lot – I am a Kiwi. I have lived in Scotland for 20 years. If I hit the news I would have no problem being described as a Kiwi, I am proud to be a Kiwi. I would in fact be miffed to be described as a Scot.

This sits alongside what feels like continual confrontation of people who make nasty remarks about immigrants in front of me (including people I have known for many years). It never occurs to them that I might fall into the category of people they are unhappy with, because I am white and English is my first language.

Just some thoughts.

don’t think it’s a coincidence that the attacks have increased since we stopped keeping them occupied in their own backyards.

Quite the opposite.

The current rash of bombings and shootings in Europe by Daesh are the result of desperation, because they are being defeated and beaten back in their stronghold in Northern Iraq/Syria..

Muslims worldwide who are responsible for the greatest terrorist threat we have ever faced.

Classic Jambyfact

Even the torygraph says you are completely wrong

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12203697/West-Europe-is-safer-now-than-in-the-1970s.-And-safer-than-almost-any-other-region-in-the-world.html

Using ridiculous hyperbole to demonise the religion, sounds like Islamaphobia to me

That really is just so stupid. There are MILLIONS of Muslims “worldwide” and the percentage of those who could be labelled “Muslims from Planet Earth” who are committed to violent Jihad is so tiny it could barely be measured. Jambalaya is…. wrong.

Before you make the point, “oh well, that will radicalise more Muslims”

Don’t worry I wasn’t going to make that claim.

So, if the IRA were so kind to ring up with a code word why were there so many people killed?

So nice of them to bomb Harrods Christmas shoppers, I take it that’s where the army shop.

Muslims worldwide who are responsible for the greatest terrorist threat we have ever faced. Whether that minority is 1%, 5%, 10% I don’t know.

You suggest that 10% of the 1 billion+ muslims in the world might be responsible for Islamic terrorism but you’re definitely not prejudiced against muslims. 😆

Around 10,000+ gun killings per year in the USA, largely by Christians, I guess, and most of them able to travel freely to Europe. Sounds pretty scary.

Quite the opposite.

The current rash of bombings and shootings in Europe by Daesh are the result of desperation, because they are being defeated and beaten back in their stronghold in Northern Iraq/Syria..

“The Syrian state still does not have enough military resources to score an outright victory against both ISIL and the other Syrian rebels in the near term, even with the residual Russian forces remaining.”

So what they will do, is carry out a concerted campaign of terrorism and division in the hopes of bringing in more recruits. Not to mention the fact that if we are seen to be supporting Assad, that will radicalise more moderate Muslims who loathe Assad even more than they do western intervention. I know and have heard from quite a few Syrians that were more pissed about us not intervening, than anything else we’d done.

The head of the snake needs cutting off as ISIS’ propaganda capability is reliant on it being seen as a state, whilst we actually have support from sections of the Syrian and Iraqi community. Then the UN needs to step in and help to rebuild the country. It cannot become a stateless vacuum with “Here be dragons” stamped over the area on maps. Hosting millions of refugees here is simply a case of treating the symptoms as opposed to the cause, something which the nihilistic left seems happy to do.

I know and have heard from quite a few Syrians that were more pissed about us not intervening, than anything else we’d done.

Are some of them your best friends?

Are some of them your best friends?

Very funny, but try taking a look at some of the debate surrounding intervention within the well educated Syrian/Iraqi/Iranian community.

Again, the left has no answers apart from platitudes and smart alec nihilism – the toxic shock it’s suffering from the Tony years has made it utterly incapable of deciding on any course of action that might actually solve the crisis.

🙂

Newsflash everyone, we already have planes and special forces in the area. The people who are going to hate us for intervening, hate us already. Why not actually take responsibility for the mess we created by occupying the area in the first place – and then leaving early before the job was actually done.

Yes some of the attacks where aimed at civilians but they where not the modus operandi.

So you’re saying apart from the IRA’s sustained campaign of bombing civilians, it wasn’t their modus operandi? o_O

yes I was in London at the height

Heh – that’s a bit of a shift from what you said earlier.

well if Jamby looks like a [blank]
sounds like a [blank]
it probably is a [blank]

@grum I don’t know what the correct number is but my assertion is that its a lot higher than many people will acknowledge.

@mike as a minimum I think 90% of Muslims are not radicalised so clearly I’m a supporter, no ? The most populist Muslim country is Indonesia and they don’t see to be causing the West a problem do they ? I want to see the substantial Muslim population we have in the uk enjoy all the benefits of this fantastic country. Those that aren’t interested, be they British citizens or not can go elsewhere, somewhere that better supports their lifestyle aspirations

@kona – shift in what way ? My assertion is the ira’s primary objective was to cause commercial damage and disruption, secondary was to target the military and thirdly civilians

Those that aren’t interested, be they British citizens or not can go elsewhere, somewhere that better supports their lifestyle aspirations

What are the acceptable lifestyle aspirations one needs to have to be allowed to remain in the UK?

On the Scottish or Pakistani thing, his family’s statement says:

He was a brilliant man, recognising that the differences between people are vastly outweighed by our similarities. And he didn’t just talk about this, he lived it each and every day, in his beloved community of Shawlands and his country of Scotland.

@ben as far as I am concerned he was a role model British citizen

Lifestyle aspirations, to live in the UK you should support British values and accept the rule of law.

Don’t tell me failing to do so will result in transportation to the colonies?

to live in the UK you should support British values…

Holy crap! You ARE Nigel Farage and I claim my five pounds. Gawd save the queen, glass of white for the lady etc etc…

What even are British values? I strongly suspect you mean white middle class male values, personally…