Ukrainian special forces have just taken back Khakiv. Presumably Donetsk and Luhansk will follow. Hopefully a strong show of force from the Ukrainian government will be enough of a deterrent, however Russia is still saying stuff like

it reserves the right to defend ethnic Russians in the country.

, which is a bit chilling

Indeed it is. But not as chilling as NATO and the EU supporting and encouraging a coup d’etat against an elected president because he didn’t comply with their wishes, and because they weren’t prepared to wait a year for the next presidential elections.

Also chilling is the fact that the EU was prepared to sign an agreement with coup leaders who have no democratic mandate.

European Union signs landmark association agreement with Ukraine

A “landmark agreement” with people who have no mandate ? No referendum ? No election ?

Quote : Van Rompuy, the European Council president, said the agreement would bring Ukraine and its 46 million people closer to the heart of Europe and a “European way of life”.

So closer to the heart of Europe and a “European way of life” whether they like it or not. And the “European way of life” according to the EU is for unelected bureaucrats to issue directives which allegedly independent sovereign governments must comply with irrespective of the wishes of their electorate.

The EU has always been a deeply undemocratic institution with little regards for the democratic wishes of the citizens of member states, but it is both chilling and shocking to see how far they are prepared to go and how little concern they have for the democratic rights of the population specially in Eastern Ukraine. This represents a new low.

Well just as I thought this one was dying down we have more armed seizures of official buildings by ‘pro Russia militia’ in the East and now Ukraines armed forces are ordered to fight back. Surely this will lead to a Ukraine Russia war.
So Mr Obama what now?

Unless new politiks order to slaughter eastern ukranians can’t see much of war. But civil war west vs east, very possible.

What now? More western bluster, a partitioned Ukraine, and further corrosive attenpts by the EU to undermie the new pro-russian eastern state.

Pro Russian vs Pro West, doesn’t sound any different. All the same to me, as long as politiks find solution to stabilise country and de-escalate impeding civil war. If that shait hits fan, I’m worried if I could pay my bills.

ohnohesback – Member
further corrosive attenpts by the EU to undermie the new pro-russian eastern state.

problem is that eastern ukraine doesnt have the same pro russian majority that crimea had

from wikipedia

Hence the continuing effort by the EU to keep on at it.

Well top of the news today is Ukraines army fighting back, casualties reported. Russia has no intention of invading but if fighting continues who knows where this could end up.

problem is that eastern ukraine doesnt have the same pro russian majority that crimea had

There’s this assumption that the whole political scene in Ukraine only ever manifests itself as an ethnic Russians v ethnic Ukrainian struggle.

If this was truly the situation then Viktor Yanukovych, who is a Russian speaker and only speaks Ukraine badly, would never have won the 2010 Ukraine presidential election. And yet he did, and he did so on a pro-Russian ticket backed by a pro-Russian party.

But it’s true to say that the situation in Eastern Ukraine isn’t the same as Crimea, which presumably is why the protesters in Eastern Ukraine aren’t asking for integration into Russia but for a loose federal arrangement with devolved power, a demand which Russia fully backs but the US and the EU do not.

And considering the situation and the intense polarisation which clearly exists in Ukraine it would appear to be a reasonable solution, other than partition.

as weve seen with scotland that devolved power seems to lead down one road….

tough shout for the ukrainians, yuschenko wasnt up to much, tymoshenko ended up being corrupt, yanukovich even more corrupt, now- who knows, dont seem to be doing well so far

with crimea removed from the country the demographics in ukraine have shifted, unlikely that a pro russian government will ever get a majority now

unlikely that a pro russian government will ever get a majority now

Which probably goes a long in explaining why Eastern Ukrainians want a federal arrangement which will allow them, among other things, to enter into trade deals with Russia.

EDIT : I’ve just checked and Yanukovych won by just shy of a million more votes than Tymoshenko. And the total population of Crimea is 2 million, I don’t how many are on the electoral register and how many actually vote, but it doesn’t suggest that it would be completely impossible for a pro-Russian president to win a election on those figures, specially if he or she was actually an honest politician rather than a corrupt one, which is generally the choice that is offered.

Russia wants WW3 so says Ukraine

Well they would say that wouldn’t they? There’s alot of fighting talk flying around at the moment, quite frankly it’s disturbing. Does anyone want peace in this situation?

Does anyone want peace in this situation?

I think it’s clear that neither side wants a violent confrontation.

😆 the cartoon says it all.

Malaysian Airliner Shot Down over Ukraine 😯

Whodunit?

saw that, holy crap

if confirmed as shot down, this is dire dire news.

Ok, so far the BBC are saying ‘it crashed’, but Sky and CNN are saying it was ‘shot down’.

Reuters also say shot down

Reuters: Russia shoots down Ukranian warplane this morning.

“In the latest escalation of the conflict on the Ukrainian-Russian frontier, Kiev said a Russian jet had shot down one of its warplanes, its strongest accusation yet of direct Russian military involvement in the war. A Ukrainian military spokesman said the pilot of the SU-25 fighter ejected to safety.”

Drac – Moderator
Anton Herashchenko, an adviser to Ukraine’s interior minister, was quoted by the Associated Press as saying the plane had been hit by a missile at an altitude of 10,000m (33,000ft). The claim could not be verified independently.

I’ll just steal Drac’s quote from the other thread

Terrible 🙁