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  • Ukraine
  • 2
    pk13
    Full Member

    USA  have called for an investigation on the hospital attack into it being a war crime .

    Poor kids

    2
    rickmeister
    Full Member

    UNSC Presidency this month, Russia then Sierra Leone, then Slovenia, Switzerland, UK for November, USA for December.
    Ties in nicely with Orban and Hungary in the EU Presidency position until December 2024. I’m waiting to hear what is possible right wing / BRICS/ agenda in Europe might be.

    Modi and putin hugging, that was pretty unexpected.

    Nato Conference in Washington and Poland offering aircraft again. These jets are a long time coming. If only the russian aircraft launching missiles could be taken out…

    The two hospitals in Kyiv. Just how grim does it have to get.

    5
    DrJ
    Full Member

    USA  have called for an investigation on the hospital attack into it being a war crime

    USA have no credibility on this issue having green-lit Israel destroying every hospital in Gaza.

    futonrivercrossing
    Free Member

    on the  silicone curtain podcast it was mentioned that behind the scenes Jake Sullivan has been slowing down the deployment of the F16’s – unfortunately I can’t find the reference mentioned in the podcast :(

    timba
    Free Member

    Re F16:

    The transfer has to be authorised by the US regardless of which third-party country owns them

    Danish and Dutch F16 were given the green light in 2023, contingent on Ukraine’s pilots being fully trained. Romanian-trained pilots should have finished training last week, US-trained pilots will soon be qualified as well.

    There are other problems in Ukraine, explained here https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/35264

    On the face of it JS isn’t to blame

    rickmeister
    Full Member
    blokeuptheroad
    Full Member

    If true, it’s started. Actually started.

    Welcome, but I think some expectations need to be managed as to the size of the difference they will make.

    hatter
    Full Member

    Agreed, they’re not a ‘magic bullet’ by any stretch.

    However, they do plug one of the most glaring and difficult to work around holes in Ukraine’s capabilities and they will certainly make a big difference if used wisely.

    Just  a shame they couldn’t have been in operation 12 months ago to support the Ukrainian summer offensive.

    timba
    Free Member

    Welcome, but I think some expectations need to be managed as to the size of the difference they will make.

    +1

    However, they do plug one of the most glaring and difficult to work around holes in Ukraine’s capabilities

    Since 2014, Ukraine has lost around 70 Su27 and Mig29 fighters, 25 Su24 bombers and 24 Su25 close support aircraft. Poland, Slovakia and Bulgaria have donated 56 MiG29 and 14 Su25 aircraft. Numerically F16 will fill a hole, but they have to be used within US rules whereas the Ukrainian aircraft could be used at will. (Loss numbers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War )

    The Russians haven’t managed air superiority over Ukraine despite their larger, more modern air force with fewer total losses. Ukraine estimated in 2023 that they needed 200 more aircraft to match Russia

    timba
    Free Member

    Russia has docked their first naval ship in their new Black Sea base in the breakaway Georgian region of Abkhazia.

    This has the effect of causing EU accession problems for Georgia who, like Moldova, don’t control their international borders.

    It also raises the problem for Ukraine of attacking the Russian Navy in Georgian territorial waters and it effectively stops international efforts to reboot a project to build a deep water port in Georgia

    DT78
    Free Member

    Those F16s will have an absolute massive target painted on them. Its been talked about for so long Russia must have welcome party planned. i fear as soon as they land that airfield is going to need to be on its A game to defend against missles and drones

    rickmeister
    Full Member

     i fear as soon as they land that airfield is going to need to be on its A game to defend against missles and drones

    Matches the announcement by Biden at the Nato conference that more Patriot batteries are on teh way… i think I read… Lviv. Convenient as its just over the Polish border from Rzeszów-Jasionka.

    And Modi, what the hell was he thinking in a potential order for Russian military kit. It’s not exactly shone on the battlefield as quality items….

    1
    DrJ
    Full Member

    And Modi, what the hell was he thinking in a potential order for Russian military kit. It’s not exactly shone on the battlefield as quality items…

    Comes with a free barrel of oil.

    3
    timba
    Free Member

    And Modi, what the hell was he thinking in a potential order for Russian military kit. It’s not exactly shone on the battlefield as quality items….

    India has been buying Russian arms for years and they also use Russian nuclear reactors. Spares have been increasingly difficult to buy since Russia invaded Ukraine.

    Relations with Russia also provide a useful counterweight to China’s friendship with Pakistan. India has had border disputes with either China or Pakistan as recently as 2022

    India is buying more “western” weapons and in 2023 put $8.5bn into Indian domestic weapons manufacturing with the launch of INDUS-X https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3434923/launch-of-the-india-us-defense-acceleration-ecosystem-indus-x/

    Even if India made the decision to exclusively buy western and Indian, it’s estimated that they’d need Russian spares for another couple of decades to maintain what they believe is a necessary military capability

    1
    hatter
    Full Member

    India has always had a rather freewheeling foreign policy, they don’t really do long term alliances.

    Right now it suits them to throw some scraps to Russia in return for very cheap oil but we shouldn’t confuse this with any kind of serious strategic partnership.

    Much as it sticks in the craw.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Modi sucking up to Putin shouldn’t be too much of a surprise, seeing as how both are far-Right, Nationalistic autocrats, very keen on what is effectively ethnic cleansing of groups seen as a threat to their political power, Modi’s is Muslims and anyone else who isn’t Hindu, Putin’s is the entire Ukrainian people, he wants the whole of Ukraine occupied by ethnic Russians so he can plunder the country’s resources.

    CountZero
    Full Member

    There’s a lot of interesting information in this article, gets a bit technical in places;

    https://www.kyivpost.com/analysis/35666

    Basically the implication is that the Russians deliberately targeted the hospital, and it’s hard not to argue with that analysis.

    DrJ
    Full Member

    Putin has been on a charm offensive with the “Global Soutb” pointing out western hypocrisy with regard to Ukraine and Gaza. And he’s not wrong.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Right now it suits them to throw some scraps to Russia in return for very cheap oil but we shouldn’t confuse this with any kind of serious strategic partnership.

    Be that as it may, what we shouldn’t be doing in the West is buying laundered Russian oil from India.

    1
    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Basically the implication is that the Russians deliberately targeted the hospital, and it’s hard not to argue with that analysis.

    The analysis of the Ukrainian national newspaper ?

    Deliberately hitting a kids hospital would be about the worst PR Russia could get. It’s more likely to have been due to just hitting the wrong thing.

    1
    squirrelking
    Free Member

    What makes you think they care?

    1
    tthew
    Full Member

    Not sure that PR is high up the Kremlin’s agenda. Well outside of Russia, internally they control it anyway so doesn’t really matter. I reckon they just want to **** up national infrastructure and don’t care if it’s utilities, hospital or whatever.

    1
    dakuan
    Free Member

    Deliberately hitting a kids hospital would be about the worst PR Russia could get

    This is what people said about that airliner.

    1
    andrewh
    Free Member

    Deliberately hitting a kids hospital would be about the worst PR Russia could get

    Depends what they are trying to achieve. It sends a very strong ‘we don’t care what anyone thinks and we can hit whatever we want’ message to the wider world. They could be using it as a warning shot, if you’ll excuse the phrase, to other countries about escalating.

    Although in my mind it’s a good reason for escalation, we, the West, should have stepped up in 2014, and we are still being far too slow at sending them the kit they need.

    5
    martinhutch
    Free Member

    This is what people said about that airliner.

    And releasing a nerve agent in a crowded UK city.

    And bombing a maternity hospital

    And raping and slaughtering civilians in Bucha and elsewhere

    And stealing hundreds of children then shipping them back into Russia.

    etc

    In PR terms, I think we’ve established that they don’t give a shit, really.

    2
    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    martinhutch +1

    You also forgot the order to behead any Ukrainian soldiers captured alive , plus starve and beat any prisoners they do take.

    1
    martinhutch
    Free Member

    There are lots of things not included in that list, including murdering your domestic political opponents and actively interfering in foreign elections too.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Exactly.
    Russians, particularly thier leaders, give absolutely no care to anything beyond being seen to be powerful at home.
    That includes human rights, international courts or any sense of being ‘bad’.

    1
    bikesandboots
    Full Member

    This was insightful – the strategic purpose of war crimes

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