UKIP's 'Common Sense' bus hits Portsmouth Railway Station.

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  • UKIP's 'Common Sense' bus hits Portsmouth Railway Station.
  • Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    On phone so links difficult but this is great for the bloke in the background:

    http://politicalscrapbook.net/2014/04/nigel-farage-too-chicken-to-pick-up-phone-to-lenny-henry/

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist ……

    To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it’s hardly surprising.

    Even David Cameron, who isn’t noted for being a bed-wetting hand-wringing bleeding-heart leftie, has accused UKIP of habouring closet racists.

    And he’s right of course.

    EDIT : BTW I don’t recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

    grum
    Member

    if anything they’re slightly left of centre

    SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY? :facepalm:

    julianwilson
    Member

    I wish you’d point them out to me, I can’t say I’ve noticed that many..

    You are looking on the wrong threads then derekfish.

    Perhaps you start with some easy search terms like “Gove”, “privatisation” and “Thatcher”. On that note whatever happened to farmer john? (he used to enter and exit political threads with excellent comedy rightwing one-liners) Also interesting that a couple of the best/funniest stw arguers-for-the-right are still well-loved and very active on here, but just rarely if ever on politics threads. Also a couple of the right-ish regulars here don’t seem to like being told they sound conservative or right wing despite making excellent and well-formed arguments in favour of right-ist political decisions.

    I am not going to start pointing political fingers at anyone except me -3/4 of the way to the left, and about a quarter of the way up ( 😯 ) last time I plotted myself on the political compass.

    sbob
    Member

    grum – Member

    SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

    ARE YOU TRYING TO SUGGEST UKIP IS AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

    I’M GUESSING YOU MUST BE VERY FAR AWAY.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Nigel Farage claims that the Conservative Party is a “social democratic” party. Bearing in mind that the present Tory Party and its leadership is even more right-wing than Margret Thatcher was, I think we can safely assume that anyone saying that is extremely right-wing.

    gobuchul
    Member

    SO WHY THE HELL ARE YOU VOTING FOR AN EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY?

    UKIP are right wing. They are definitely not extreme though.

    Junkyard
    Member

    BTW I don’t recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

    Neither is Flasheart, Stoner, THM and all [ including zulu] would speak out against a racist.

    Tbh there almost no racists on here as everyone tends to shout them down irrespective of personal political leaning

    Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist

    I wish you luck in keeping this log on going Graham but it is pretty hard for you to argue you dont like trolling…shall i argue I dont like quoting 😀

    Junkyard
    Member

    They are definitely not extreme though

    By extreme here I assume we mean racist?
    They are not they are massively nationalistic and attract many racists [ who they then remove]but they are not [ quite] racist.

    they are pretty far to the right though and at least as right wing as the Republican party/tea party so extreme right is debatable but probably more polite than saying Far right which suggest racism.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    I think it misses the point to dismiss UKIP as racists, that easy and a bit of a cop out.

    Far better is to engage with them on their policies and then dismiss them as idiots.

    gobuchul
    Member

    they are pretty far to the right though and at least as right wing as the Republican party/tea party so extreme right is debatable but probably more polite than saying Far right which suggest racism.

    extreme
    ?k?stri?m,?k-/Submit
    adjective
    1.
    reaching a high or the highest degree; very great.
    “extreme cold”
    synonyms: utmost, uttermost, very great, greatest, greatest

    2.
    furthest from the centre or a given point.
    “the extreme north-west of Scotland”
    synonyms: furthest, farthest, furthermost, farthermost, furthest/farthest away, very, utmost, outermost, most distant, aftermost, endmost, ultimate, final, last, terminal, remotest;

    By that definition “extreme” is further “right” than far.

    UKIP are simply a right wing party, to call them extreme is ridiculous. If UKIP are extreme, where on the political spectrum would you put the NF or BNP?

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    blaming floods on gay marriage isnt extreme?

    grum
    Member

    UKIP are simply a right wing party, to call them extreme is ridiculous. If UKIP are extreme, where on the political spectrum would you put the NF or BNP?

    BNP = Slightly more extreme than UKIP. Not sure about the NF.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    UKIP are right wing. They are definitely not extreme though.

    No of course not. They are just a bunch of highly misunderstood moderates who think the Tories are too left-wing and if in power would slash taxes, create a flat rate tax which like the hated poll tax would treat millionaires and paupers equally, slash public spending to pay for it all, and increase defence spending by 40%, because according to UKIP despite having one of the highest defence budgets in the world we still aren’t spending enough on defence.

    How terribly moderate of them !

    Junkyard
    Member

    I dont think you can ignore the fact that this is politics and we need to look at what far right and extreme right mean
    IMHO

    Far right indicating racist overtones
    extreme right just being nationalists

    UKIP are a fair way from the centre- I am sure they would be happy to admit this tbh.
    As ernie notes i dont see how you can argue they are not to the right

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    I am sure they would be happy to admit this tbh.

    I very much doubt it.

    grum
    Member

    Would we prefer if I called them a ‘very right-wing’ party? Or as above, perhaps ‘far right’ is better?

    joshvegas
    Member

    All this talk of left and right, no wonder the bus driver got confused!

    ninfan
    Member

    Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist

    Well, as mentioned above – its perfectly possible to be right wing without being racist or fascist (In fact I well recall being labelled a right wing anarchist, which is as far from Fascist as you can get.)

    Nor is opposition to the EU a right/left issue

    As for Racism – there’s a difference between supporting racism and supporting multiculturalism (an issue on which I fully support the position of Trevor Philips ) Too many on both sides of that debate are unable to see the difference.

    For what its worth, I’m utterly opposed to UKIP because of their social conservatism – in fact Farage himself is far more radical than the rest of the party (eg. legalisation of drugs which he supports but the party opposes) the majority of their support/membership are fundamentally small c big state conservatives, with no real belief in the:
    slash taxes, create a flat rate tax which like the hated poll tax would treat millionaires and paupers equally, slash public spending to pay for it all, and increase defence spending by 40%
    Policies that nutters like me would support

    I have to say that UKIP are a good thing in the respect that less people will now vote Tory. And as they’ve no real chance of getting into power (at a general election), it’ll just split the Tory vote in marginal seats. Less chance of them getting a majority. So thats a win/win really

    No wonder Dave is doing his frankly weird God/anti-immigration/EU referendum dance though. Imagine being Dave. Faced not only with the realisation that you’re haemorrhaging votes from your natural constituency, but the true realisation of what a truly odd, nasty bunch of racist, homophobic bigots your core support really is. And now you’re going to have to pander to them shamelessly to stand any chance of winning an election.

    I think he’d actually managed to convince himself before the last election, with all that metropolitan, husky/hoody-hugging ‘detoxifying the tory brand’ crap he spouted, that the rump of the Tory Party weren’t as small-minded, vile and thoroughly unpleasant as they actually are. No illusions any more though, eh Dave?

    Pretty much exactly what I was going to put. UKIP are hilarious if only for the fact they out Tory the Tories and in a tight election could stuff it for their closest natural bed fellows.

    I already had a very low opinion of Farage and his ilk, but then I discovered that my father in law, who is a grade A “James Blunt”* is a friend of Farage. Judge a man by the company he keeps, and that makes Farage an asshat of the highest degree.

    So, I agree with this chap;

    *Rhyming slang is still alive and well.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Far left/far right in UK politics certainly doesn’t mean what it can do elsewhere. Say what you like about UK racists, fascists, anarchists and communists, they have standards.

    I think it misses the point to dismiss UKIP as racists, that easy and a bit of a cop out.

    Far better is to engage with them on their policies and then dismiss them as idiots.

    As much as I detest call me Dave + Clegg and have little time for Miliband I think they’ll manage the above in the run up to the election.

    derekfish
    Member

    Anyone vaguely right wing on this forum is automatically racist/troll/fascist ……
    To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it’s hardly surprising.

    To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist, Uncle Joe (Stalin) killed way way more than Adolf, if I had a £ for every leftie losing an argument that reeled out the ‘racist’ ploy, I’d be a wealthy man.

    UKIP sadly are a single issue party that’s right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

    And ‘Racist’ that is an extension of human tribalism, which taken to it’s nth degree, could be argued, that supporting the wrong wendy ball team is racist if you go to the same absurd length some lefties do when reeling out its definition. It’s quite pathetic in this day and age.

    cheekyboy
    Member

    That picture in the OP gives a whole new meaning to the expression

    ” Getting off at Fratton”

    ninfan
    Member

    To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist

    Jesus – you can’t say that round here!

    Next you’ll be suggesting that thousands of dockers went on strike in support of Enoch!

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    To be even fairer many people with left wing views are also racist

    Yes of course, the association between racism and left-wing politics is no different to the association between racism and right-wing politics. Just look at the history of South African for examples of that !

    The capacity of some people to spout bollox never ceases to amaze me 🙂

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    derekfish – Member

    UKIP sadly are a single issue party that’s right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

    Genuine LOL. Of course it isn’t, who has ever suggested it is? But things like, oh, for instance, saying black people born and brought up in the UK should leave and go to a “black country”, you might think that’s a little bit racist? Sort of like how being anti-EU doesn’t make you misogynistic, but claiming “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman” does. Or being anti-EU doesn’t make you homophobic, but calling gay rights a “lunatic’s charter” and making links with bestiality and paedophilia does.

    mefty
    Member

    To be fair, Lenny Henry was brought up in the Black Country.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    That’s the best bit isn’t it! “Go back to where you came from! Dudley!” A wee fail-within-a-fail for UKIP, they could have pretended it was all a hilarious gag, too slow.

    Premier Icon kennyp
    Subscriber

    To be fair many people with right-wing views are also racist, few people would deny that, so it’s hardly surprising.

    Define “many” please. 1%, 5%, 50%, 75%……what percentage roughly do you think?

    I always find it amusing and/or sad that in these debates anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe. One of the things I find most hypocritical about people on the left is their complete intolerance of any view that doesn’t agree with their own view of the world.

    I tend to vote for right wing parties because they are the ones who tolerate freedom of speech.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Define “many” please.

    OK, but only because you asked nicely – quite a lot.

    I can see that it’s news to you about the connection between right-wing politics and racism, but as my quote which you used says “few people would deny that”. You are clearly one of the few.

    In other shocking news it turns out that pope is a catholic.

    .

    I always find it amusing and/or sad that in these debates anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe.

    It’s funny how people’s perceptions differ. Here’s mine :

    ernie_lynch – Member

    BTW I don’t recall ever seeing anyone accusing Z-11 of being racist, despite the fact he argues extensively on here from a very right-wing perspective.

    Posted 5 hours ago #

    So who’s right – you or me ? We can’t both be.

    Either anyone who holds any sort of right wing view is described as a bigot or racist or homophobe, or they’re not.

    EDIT : I’ve just realised that I’m being intolerant because I don’t agree with you and your pov :

    One of the things I find most hypocritical about people on the left is their complete intolerance of any view that doesn’t agree with their own view of the world.

    So sorry.

    derekfish
    Member

    Northwind – Member
    derekfish – Member
    UKIP sadly are a single issue party that’s right wingedness can be defined by petty nationalism, but the idea of leaving the EU in itself is not racist.

    Genuine LOL. Of course it isn’t, who has ever suggested it is? But things like, oh, for instance, saying black people born and brought up in the UK should leave and go to a “black country”, you might think that’s a little bit racist? Sort of like how being anti-EU doesn’t make you misogynistic, but claiming “no employer with a brain in the right place would employ a young, single, free woman” does. Or being anti-EU doesn’t make you homophobic, but calling gay rights a “lunatic’s charter” and making links with bestiality and paedophilia does.

    I’m not going to defend who or whatever said all those things, but like a lot of folk from my era, I’d defend their right to say them however offensive, that’s the difference between tolerance and the left, as to whatever context they were quoted from, I could have said that myself about employing a young single woman in the face of employment and maternity rights these days, if the quote were aimed at small businesses and as to gay rights and paedophilia I have no idea who said it or why, only that it probably wasn’t Cyril Smith. Then since when was saying or thinking things a crime? Oh yes I remember now, since the last bout of left wing governmental influence.

    julianwilson
    Member

    Then since when was saying or thinking things a crime? Oh yes I remember now, since the last bout of left wing governmental influence.

    I thought McCarthy was right wing republican? I seem to remember some rather worrying bits from my history lessons about his considerable impact of freedom of speech only 2 generations ago. Or perhaps my teachers were all lefties trying to warp us.

    ernie_lynch
    Member

    Then since when was saying or thinking things a crime?

    Well in the case of libel and slander since about 800 years ago. Incitement of racial hatred about 50 years, and in the case of homophobia, much more recently – 50 years ago homosexuality was still a crime.

    I see that you don’t approve ?

    BTW, you can think what you like – no one has yet figured out a way of revealing what people think.
    So if you don’t write it down or say it you should be safe.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    I also remember the thatcher governments laughable attempts to censor jerry adams, she tried to have the ‘death on the rock’ documentary banned, attempted to hide the facts of the belgrano sinking,sarah tisdale sent to prison for leaking the arrival of american nukes, spycatcher, the public order act……..

    free speech and the right are rather incompatible it would seem

    llama
    Member

    That gif is him outside the Bell in Bath. He went there for a drink today. The landlord threw him out. I like the Bell.

    Although as everyone and his dog knows here, it is an achingly right on leftie bohemian establishment, it’s just too obvious not to be a stunt.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    derekfish – Member

    that’s the difference between tolerance and the left,

    You do realise that the UKIP member and council candidate who told a british man that he should go to a “black country”, was doing so because he didn’t like something he’d said? Tolerance in action, shut up or leave your own country just because you happen to be the wrong colour.

    Freedom of speech doesn’t give you the undisputed right to be a shitehawk without challenge- it also gives everyone else the right to call you a shitehawk. That’s not intolerance, it’s consequences. And the “right” to be a racist comes a long way second to people’s right to have opinions without shitehawks being racist to them. The right to be a sexist arse doesn’t even register compared with womens’ rights to live their lives without being penalised for daring to have a vagina.

    ninfan
    Member

    The landlord threw him out.

    Well, its good to see that landlords still have the right to not serve people they don’t approve of… 😉

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