How did we get here?

Forget the Brexit s***fest…. Looks like we shall now be going to China, cap in hand, to fund/build our nuclear power stations.

America has already pointed out that inviting Chinese state funded companies into our country has the potential to be a huge security concern in the future. China is known to be subverting building programs/ funding in order to allow potential military gain in the future.

Hell, the telecoms companies are likely to be told not to use infrastructure supplied by the likes of Huawei when designing the 5g network in the UK for security reasons.

…. I guess it’s all good as long as the government can say it saved billions. Forget the potential long term cost…. both literally and strategically.

Its ok though. Our 2 plane-less carriers will keep us safe I suppose.

Just felt like a moan.

The Michelin tyre factory in Dundee is closing because ‘they make the wrong tyre’ for the current markets (bit of bad business research there), but being undercut by cheaper Asian imports…..just the very countries that are going to be our best trade deal partners come 29 March 2019.

I suggest that we will be buying more from them than they will ever buy from us.

<p>Looks like we shall now be going to China, cap in hand, to fund/build our nuclear power stations.</p>

<p>Any source or speculation? Only related link I can find was CGN wanting to take Centrica’s stake in EDF Energy’s existing generation business.</p>

The Michelin tyre factory in Dundee is closing because ‘they make the wrong tyre’

Mind you thats no surprise – the car tyre market makes the ever-fickle cycling standards look like nothing. In the nineties 90% of car tyre sales were covered by just 19 different tyre sizes. Now there are nearly 200 sizes in that 90% bracket and over 1000 in the remaining 10%. So which of those 1200 different profiles do you tool up for?

Any source or speculation? Only related link I can find was CGN wanting to take Centrica’s stake in EDF Energy’s existing generation business.

Being put forward by the Tory MP where the plants in Cumbria were going to be built. I think she is local to three anyway. She seems to think China is well up for giving us a helping hand…. I believe she’s just got back from an all expenses paid trip to there.

‘I believe she’s just got back from an all expenses paid trip to there’.

She will be lobbying hard on their behalf then.

Get used to it, our imperial past has given us an undue sense of exceptionalism. Did we ever really think we’d be able to resist the economic influence of a country with a population more than 10 times bigger than ours?

To be fair they were probably banking on some* jobs coming from the project, I imagine she would be out in her arse if she wasn’t campaigning for something to get it going.

Disappointed Moorside has been canned, of all the projects I thought that was the most likely to be up and running first.

*a lot

I’m building a brewery.

Will set up a preferential +20% rate for government bookings

Doesn’t really matter does it. By the time it has been built, we’ll not have anything of worth to have security fears about.

Squirrelking  probably the fact that Toshiba have pulled out of building a new reactor in Cumbria.  EDF have said they won’t build any more so from what I see that only leaves the Chinese who are prepared to build reactors in the UK now

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/nov/08/toshiba-uk-nuclear-power-plant-project-nu-gen-cumbria

raybanwomble

Get used to it, our imperial past has given us an undue sense of exceptionalism. Did we ever really think we’d be able to resist the economic influence of a country with a population more than 10 times bigger than ours?

Wouldn’t it be great if we could ally ourselves with our neighbours in Europe and form a powerful trading bloc?

Oh…. 🙂

The Michelin tyre factory in Dundee is closing because ‘they make the wrong tyre’ for the current markets (bit of bad business research there)

They were only making tyres for 16inch wheels weren’t they? I could have told them that was short sighted as 16 has always been an odd size as most wheels are 15 or 17, 16 was always an exception with less tyre sizes available.  And why would a factory only make one diameter of tyre, sounds like they may have not wanted it to go on for that long.

Hitachi are still backing Wylfa with tha ABWR and it’s certified for UK use.

Kepco have a recent proven record of delivering new build in UAE to time and budget and could step in but would require certification – I still think they’re a good bet.

Re China supplying key infrastructure we have the option of getting Rolls Royce etc to supply the control systems. Might be more expensive and bound to be built with Chinese parts (see your phone, TV, PC etc.)

My reading of the whole debacle is that it’s the government’s inability to come up with a suitable finance model. Nuclear is very sensitive to interest rates and sovereign risk. The two are linked. Any private company borrowing to finance nuclear (“risk sharing”) pays a large interest premium to cover the sovereign risk. As interest payments are a vast amount of the cost that puts the project cost up and increases the risk of a project being canned by a government (the sovereign risk).

I’d like to have electricity even after Brexit (and even in the typical multi day calms in winter) . This is an area where a rational government should act.

So we’re screwed.

The Michelin tyre factory in Dundee is closing because ‘they make the wrong tyre’ for the current markets (bit of bad business research there)

They were only making tyres for 16inch wheels weren’t they? I could have told them that was short sighted as 16 has always been an odd size as most wheels are 15 or 17, 16 was always an exception with less tyre sizes available.  And why would a factory only make one diameter of tyre, sounds like they may have not wanted it to go on for that long.

I read the story on the BBC and now think it’s forced decommissioning on behalf of the owners.

The tyre size is an important factor, though they could have pre-empted the marketplace 5yrs ago and brought in some new machinery..

I thinks the plants been on the skids for a long time and the decision to close was made about…5yrs ago.

TJ I’m aware of Toshiba pulling out, I was looking for facts not speculation.

As for EDF saying they won’t build more, no they haven’t. Sizewell C planning is still ongoing.

Murray, nail on head. The finance should have been decided when the sites were put to tender, instead it appears that each site will negotiate its own deal, Hinkley has its strike price, Wylfa has a government stake and God knows what at Moorside, Sizewell, Oldbury and Bradwell if/when anything ever happens. But, like the actual decision to build more stations it was put off to the last kick and now we have a mess where companies have spent millions, the government (ONR) have probably spent similar numbers of figures completing GDA’s and nigh on sod all to show for it.

Even if Kepco decided to do their own thing (which I doubt as the talks to buy NuGen have failed) they would still be behind CNG and be years away from submitting a GDA never mind breaking ground. I honestly think at this stage nobody is going to want any part of this and the only way we are going to get anything built is to do it ourselves. Buy Westinghouse back, get the IP, build AP1000s on Moorside, Sizewell and Oldbury and get the damn things online. But the chances of getting that right with this lots track record?

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em that was short sighted as 16 has always been an odd size as most wheels are 15 or 17, 16 was always an exception with less tyre sizes available.  And why would a factory only make one diameter of tyre, sounds like they may have not wanted it to go on for that long.

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hmmm wonder what heinous catastrofudge might be on the horizon that theyve been reluctant to invest further & update in a uk facility ………….

Any source or speculation?

Horizon and EDF are the only operators using GDA approved designs and each already has a second site identified for development if the first looks to be working out 5-10 years down the line. So they are unlikely to want to look at Moorside until after that. Now Toshiba are out, the only other design in GDA, although with a way to go, is the Chinese HRP1000. So far as I know their primary site is Bradwell, and they don’t have a second. So if anyone is going to pick up Moorside, they could be the most likely. Kepco were negotiating with Toshiba to take over Nugen, which would save them a lot of front end work if they wanted to use Moorside, and since that fell through, I can’t imagine them starting from scratch.

Edit – written before seeing squirrelking’s latest post but will leave it as written.

Buy Westinghouse back, get the IP, build AP1000s on Moorside, Sizewell and Oldbury and get the damn things online. But the chances of getting that right with this lots track record?

True. We should never have sold Westinghouse in the first place, I think it was just part of Government wanting rid of BNFL. I accept BNFL wasn’t financially sustainable because of the discounted cost / liabilities / decommissioning pot issue, but that could have been addressed by better ways than breaking it up and inventing NDA.

& then there’s the ethics of working with China when they are doing things like this…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/China_hidden_camps

Wouldn’t it be great if we could ally ourselves with our neighbours in Europe and form a powerful trading bloc?

Take your crazy ideas and walk back to France! Wait…what do you mean we are an island?

Ohhh, so Dover is important? Who would have thought….