On CBS, says he saw Armstrong self inject EPO in 1999-2001.

Hamilton is of course guilty of doping and appears to have released a book recently, and Armstrong has never failed a drug test.

I believe Hamilton!

d’know what though… I think that I believe Hamilton too..

I refuse to believe that in this day and age an adult gentleman would be childish enough to lie about someone’s past purely out of spite..

if there was gain involved maybe.. or is this the mentality of high level sportsmen..?

if there was gain involved maybe.

1. Write Book.
2. Make up salacious story.
3. Profit.

aah.. my mistake.. I forgot to factor in the ‘celebrity obsessed slavering muggy public’ factor..

I just can’t believe Armstrong was that good without taking drugs while others were.

His sanctimoney winds me right up to, as one might expect.

I refuse to believe that in this day and age an adult gentleman would be childish enough to lie about someone’s past purely to create interest in a just released book to raise much needed income..

I have, as they say, fixed that for you.

Is this the same guy who claimed on his dog’s life that his naturally unobtainable blood measurements was caused by an unborn and previously undetected twin before he (they) were born and then realised “This is proper pissed, I better confess to doping like a junkie”? Yes, I do believe it is.

My position on it all is, I don’t know if he (Armstrong) did or not and I’m bored of the whole endless thing. For that reason, I’m out.

I just can’t believe Armstrong was that good without taking drugs while others were.

Thing is, every now and again there is an athlete who blows everyone out the water.

Usain Bolt for example or Pete Sampras in his prime.

Would this book have ever got a mention without Armstrong’s name in it, probably not…………
Edit:nice chart 😀

There is a huge list of riders who have ridden with LA who subsequently were found to be on the juice…..
If he was, or wasn’t, still amazing to achieve what he did

“You don’t ride the Tour de France on mineral water alone,” Jacques Anquetil 5x winner

I think it’s pretty well accepted that cycling has a history of doping at the high levels for over 40 years. It’s only recently that the use of certain performance enhancers/compensators have been outlawed.

I think drug use should be stamped out in cycling, but I can’t condemn competitive individuals who did it to stay in the game 10 years ago.

Like it or not, Armstrong is a strong ambassador for cycling – I hope it stays that way. Although I don’t doubt he (they all) took drugs

Armstrong has never failed a drug test.

Only problem with that statement, apart from the fact that many, many other athletes who have subsequently admitted doping were never caught is that Armstrong has tested positive for synthetic EPO. His 1999 TdF samples were retested in 2005. 6 samples contained synthetic EPO. Luckily for him WADA rules state that historic samples cannot be used in any prosecution.

Another point for all the pro Armstrong camp. many of his team mates were doping when in Armstrongs team. doping in pro sport isn’t some two bit operation, its a very precise science, one that one man cannot undertake on his own, so whether or not he was doping, Armstrong would have known his team mates were, and that the team was helping them, so for someone so antidoping, why didn’t he do anything? He was the biggest name in the sport, he could of easily blown the whistle but he didn’t.

Oh yeah, for someone so clean, his treatment of Filippo Simeoni was nice wasn’t it?

They all do it at the front end of grand tours and procycling. Always have always will its part and parcel of the sport, just except it and enjoy the spectacle. Unfortuately Armstrong has made to many enemies along the way and now the knives are out. Hay ho

Armstrongs denials are very cleverly worded. Never failed a test, never used illegal substances – well in 1999 there was no test for EPO and I am not sure it was on the banned list.

There is so much evidence if no proof that Armstrong used performance enhancing substances and as for “never failed a test” – many folk have not even those now known to be systematically doping. Sports Doctors in the US have always been one step ahead.

he will get his comeuppance one day.

I would just like to add that I am no Lance Armstrong apologist, just one of lifes optimists who hopes he did it clean.

he never failed a test, it’s not his fault science couldn’t catch him is it?

Why don’t you hope Hamilton is doing it for the right reasons?

Lets say hypothetically that Armstrong was guilty and got caught absolutely bang to rights, say video evidence emerged of a transfusion or something equally conclusive.

What damage would that do to professional cycling? and would the sport be better or worse for it?

What damage would that do to professional cycling? and would the sport be better or worse for it?

See this is the problem. Maybe not quite so much now but back in his heyday, if LA had been conclusively proven to have doped, it would have ripped the sport of professional cycling to pieces. Properly blown it out the water. It would have been the Festina affair x 10.

They all do it at the front end of grand tours and procycling.

That’s not quite true. I’d bet an awful lot on the fact that Bradley Wiggins and Geraint Thomas are clean as is David Millar (taking into account his past indiscretions). Chris Boardman was clean throughout his entire career.

There’s a lot more to this than just finding Armstrong guilty and it’s a real shame that it actually masks what certainly used to be a big problem in cycling (much less so nowadays) – everyone is so keen to find Lance guilty that they’re ignoring the bigger picture.

From an interview with Fausto Copi in the 1940’s when asked if he had ever used drugs?
“When they are necessary”
“And when is that?”
“Almost always”

I have mixed feelings. there is something about Armstrong that makes him impossible to like and big names are easy targets. Also I really don’t think that he was as superior as the results make out. Like Cav with his sprinting, he was very good, one of the best in fact but a good team and tactics helped a lot as well.
On the other and as a good proportion of the other good riders were up to no good and lots of people have done the same as Tyler, maybe theres has been something naughty,

paul kimage all over again – bitterness

i believe the term is innocent until proven guilty – wether he did or didnt – there hasnt been enough proof to say one way or another so until then – im going to stay with he didnt do anything that other folk didnt do ……

I’d bet an awful lot on the fact that Bradley Wiggins and Geraint Thomas are clean as is David Millar (taking into account his past indiscretions). Chris Boardman was clean throughout his entire career.

I’ agree with that, but lets be honest, the brits aren’t the problem are they?

what damage would that do to professional cycling? and would the sport be better or worse for it?

There would be a big fallout in the US, and probably the UK. the heartland of cycling, ie france spain and italy will be unaffected I’d have thought

I don’t think Lance getting caught would damage cycling too muc, just him.

im going to stay with he didnt do anything that other folk didnt do ……

Given that loads of them dope, I don’t see your point.

Armstrongs denials are very cleverly worded. Never failed a test, never used illegal substances – well in 1999 there was no test for EPO and I am not sure it was on the banned list.

This. I don’t think he’s ever denied using performance-enhancing drugs.

I have just read on another thread that Armstrong was the victim of some kind of terrorist doping grenade!!

Could this be possible..?
An Al Qeada EPO dirty bomb..?
It sounds as plausible to me as any of the other stuff..

I’d bet an awful lot on the fact that Bradley Wiggins and Geraint Thomas are clean as is David Millar (taking into account his past indiscretions). Chris Boardman was clean throughout his entire career

are you confidence of their cleanliness because they’re Brits (Queensbury rules dontchaknow) or because of something a little more concrete and less patriotic?

In the ‘Armstrong’ years how many contenders DIDN’T dope…

I don’t doubt for a moment that he doped.

FWIW, he has explicitly said that he’s never used banned products/doped. I remember because before that he hadn’t explictly said so.

are you confidence of their cleanliness because they’re Brits (Queensbury rules dontchaknow) or because of something a little more concrete and less patriotic?

Something a lot more concrete. The fact that they’re all Brits is co-incidental. I could just as well have said Fabian Cancellara.

stoner, I think its got a lot to do with their track background, and Dave Brailsfords influence

So more and more of Armstrongs rivals are admitting to using drugs yet they still got whipped by him for years. Must of been duff EPO they were given.

Or perhaps everyone else was told they were getting pumped full of EPO when in fact the drugs they got were to slow them down and Armstrong was in fact clean.

I still find it hard to believe he was clean throughout his career.

If Armstrong could be proven to have doped, which if he did, is unlikely with the lawyers he’s surrounded with and the time that’s passed, it wouldn’t make a lot of difference to cycling in general, just to him. Pro road cycling’s a dirty sport to a lot of the public anyway.

And compared to what he’s done with his cancer charity, and done for the hopes of so many cancer sufferers, the TDF matters little. I’d be more concerned about ‘proof’ of doping affecting that than the sport of cycling really.

I also think, clean or not, he relied heavily on his team, more so than most, a team who pretty much all doped and i expect he knew that. so he’s not won fair and square anyway. i’m not sure who the last ‘fair’ winner was, Lemond? were aero bars fair back then? 🙂 etc etc

I suppose we have to remember that Lance didn’t dominate the sport, just the TDF, adn IIRC he only did a few other races.

There must be a rider(s) who had similar total success over the same period?

Lemond has it in for Lance re. drugs IIRC, it must have been even more rife in those days though.

Only problem with that statement, apart from the fact that many, many other athletes who have subsequently admitted doping were never caught is that Armstrong has tested positive for synthetic EPO. His 1999 TdF samples were retested in 2005. 6 samples contained synthetic EPO. Luckily for him WADA rules state that historic samples cannot be used in any prosecution.

sounds fairly damning was this widely reported, do we have a source for this?

I don’t doup it but if thats been accepted as fact then the Tyler thing is old news

And compared to what he’s done with his cancer charity, and done for the hopes of so many cancer sufferers, the TDF matters little. I’d be more concerned about ‘proof’ of doping affecting that than the sport of cycling really.

I guess this raises the question: do you let LA off the fact he ‘may’ have doped, but acknowledge all the positive work he’s done during and since his reign at the top of the peleton? Or do you hound him ‘just in case’ he was guilty of doping while he whipping everyone else?

I’d bet an awful lot on the fact that Bradley Wiggins and Geraint Thomas are clean as is David Millar (taking into account his past indiscretions)

Would Wiggins be one of the best clean riders of recent years then?

ampthill, theres a proper paper on the web, I can’t find it, but it was widely reported in 2005.

no idea re proof it is possible that Amrstrong was so good his team needed drugs to keep up with him and support him and he was clean.Possibly he was so good and awesome he was able to crush a number of rivals who were all drug cheats.
It is possible he was also a drug cheat who never got caught like others, who have admitted this since they retired.
The only thing I am certain of , in this story, is that Tyler is not a reliable witness. Known liar with a book out at the minute so his motives are at best questionable.

British cycling whilst having a squeeky clean image over here is looked upon with some level of suspicion outside our shores. For example look at the recent UCI leak which put Wiggins at the same level of suspicion as Condador, Vino etc!! Doping is so ingrained within the sport at the top level its considered the norm if you want to succeed. The gains that new forms of EPO and Blood doping etc allow make it impossible for a clean rider to compete. Science always wins and is one step ahead of the controls…

What he says may or may not be true, but how are you supposed to trust the word of someone who can look you in the eye and say “I didn’t dope” without batting an eyelid. Both Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis are practiced and accomplished liars, so why assume these latest stories are any more plausible than the last load of bull they spouted. They tended to be portrayed as the clean cut, straight up guys – especially Landis with his Mennonite background, but subsequent events have proven these portrayals to be rather naive. Given all that, I’m prepared to give Armstrong the benefit of the doubt that he may be an obnoxious, driven, incredibly focused individual, who kept the right side of the doping regulations throughout most, if not all, of his career. The fact that he came back in 2009 and finished 3rd behind two much younger athletes who have both already been circumstantially linked to doping, despite it being generally acknowledged that whatever he might have been up to in the past, he probably rode clean in 2009.

There’s clearly a lot of circumstantial evidence and personal anecdote that suggests Lance was doping, but I’m not convinced by the ‘dominance’ arguments – apart from his Tour wins, the rest of his palmares is pretty unremarkable for a top flight cyclist, and certainly nowhere near the level of someone like Eddie Merckx. A lot of Eddie’s contemporaries have been done for doping, but there’s never been anything like the sustained campaign to question his dominance across a far wider spectrum of racing.

Even his dominance of the Tour needs to be more nuanced, as some of Lance’s Tour wins appeared to be down to poor tactics amongst his opponents. I think it was 2005 when everyone was predicting T Mobile would rip him a new one, and they ended up fannying about between Ullrich and Vinokourov in the mountains, and supporting Eric Zabel in the points competition. The contrast between them and the single minded focus of USPS was pretty marked. Watching that Tour, I was left with the impression that it was more a case of T Mobile losing it than USPS winning.