Your initial post dbcooper did sound a little ‘we did it the right way, the rest of you are doing it wrong and just conforming to a forced ideal like sheep’

Your last post was a lot more diplomatic and explained things better 🙂

I think that none of us fathers though can understand the mothers need to comfort her child, we love our children all the same but are wired differently. My wife is very much ‘Aaah don’t climb on that chair’ to our 11 mth son, whereas I’m more ‘Go for it, he’ll be fine’ but will be there to catch him if he falls. Its all about balance. No pun intended. 🙂

Wilko, fair enough, we just did it our way. I wanted to share that.

I dunno if it’s that simple wilko.. I’m a stay at home dad, and so I raised our kids whilst their ma went to work, which also had a fairly dramatic effect on the traditional gender roles..

Controlled crying is what my mother used for me and all my siblings. I can only remember it being used on my youngest 3 siblings as they are 10, 12 and 14 years younger than me. It worked even on the oldest of the threee who was a totally mental **** bitch.

To the OP I feel you frustration and exhaustion. Without sleep every aspect of life is less good.

I haven’t read all the posts, but see the general gist is that every child is different. To that I’d add every family is different… For us it took time to find a strategy that felt as though we were moving forward together, even if there weren’t instant results. We prepared the ground by explaining our plan to nipper then put him to bed. The plan was a) went in after 5 min crying, retucked nipper without making eye contact (which seemed important) or talking b) retreated, lay in bed mutually supporting each other (as we both felt awful listening to him cry we had to stop each other breaking the plan) b) after 10 min repeated c) after 15 min repeated etc.

At no point was it easy to listen to him cry, so I guess I’m saying I can understand how your partner feels ‘inflicting’ unhappiness on your child (even if that’s not how you see it).

Perhaps talking more about how hard your finding it coping without sleep and the effect it’s having on you (& her?). A neutral third person in the discussion might help, not to make any judgement but to help you talk about it.

Raising our nipper has been, without doubt, the hardest thing I’ve ever done. And getting through the sleeping part was the hardest part of the whole experience.

Good luck finding the solution that works for you.

We had a bit of this on and off and still do (My girl is 20 months)
She would always resquawk after about an hour and then would be up again for between 3-5 hours which was killing us, mainly my wife really. She wouldn’t go back to bed and so they ended up sleeping together. This went on and then i think in desperation i suggested that i put her to bed , my wife went out for a long walk or to see a friend and I would check on her every ten minutes to settle her down. It was really really hard, night one was near on an hour of cry, settle, i leave, cry until she decided to sleep. Next night 30 minutes, 3rd night 5 minutes then after that for months literally wanted to be in bed. Even now she generally wants to go to bed and will come and tell me when it is bath time, i read her a story with a light on, turn it off and reassure her that I am there then tell her i will come and check on her if she is upset. Every now and then i have to but literally one night in 30. Of course it will all change and last night she woke up in a pile of vom so there are exceptions !

But to echo the above, its hard to be rational and it puts massive tension on everything you do together. You sadly just have to communicate and hope that there will be some listening on both sides.

dbcooper – my wife did the same as you, against all sorts of “advice” from other mothers. Our daughters are great and nobody has suffered as a result.

IME loss of sleep goes with the territory when you have toddlers around. One way or another they tend to keep you awake, regardless of where they are supposed to be sleeping. Only my experience of course, I’m sure some parents are fortunate enough to have two years olds who just sleep the whole night peacefully in their own bed and then bring them breakfast in bed in the morning.

1 You need to speak to the wife. Having your kid sleep with you isn’t normal or right for any of you.

Ie sleep all night in your bed and you can have a freddo in the morning.

Having a freddo in the morning isn’t normal or right for any of you.

The advice given in Toddler Taming is to go in, not switch on the light, not speak, but simply settle the child then leave. By talking and making a fuss you reinforce the behaviour. It’s easy to say this but it worked for us; the simple strategies of a rigorous daily routine and non-reinforcement of the wrong behaviour with reward for the right, did the job.

It hasn’t stopped him crashing his bike in his teens though, which is costing a bit in repairs.

globalti – problem with that approach is that it is not guaranteed to work with every child. It makes perfect sense, but in practice it didn’t work with ours. They are all different and you have to make it work in your own way.

We have a child and I am therefor an expert ….in dealing with him.
He like every other child has phases of sleep issues , we did not want to do controlled crying too traumatic for him and us (we know people who swear by it and are lovely parents with happy offspring.)

we did something like gradual retreat . read his usual bed time stories in his room then sit till he slept after a bit same routine but sit further away and so on till the sitting is in the door way then outside the door. when sitting have the lights off and only say what ever your agreed words are do not engage in conversation or eye contact or peek a bo. our words were ” shush shush shush time to sleep” if he woke in the night we went in soothed him and did the same retreat .

He now goes down fine . but at 3 is in an adult bed and has taken to waking up at about three wandering in to our room and sleeping between us or if he sleeps through till 6 am coming in then for a chat . we depending on tiredness and mood are perfectly happy with that as he is getting off to sleep reliably in his own bed.

Ignore any one including me who claims to have the correct answer do what you both feel comfortable with personally I try to let crankygirl take the lead when we are together as that makes us all happier.

OP why not persuade your wife just to relax in the house for one night so she can see how it works when you are alone , it may even help for her to pretend to go out then sneak back so your child does not know she is their and adopt tactics accordingly.

Well I have no idea what the OP’s domestic arrangements are but we are lucky enough that I was able to be with the kids and not have to go to work. So I could sleep when they sleep, I can empathise with anyone where both parents have to stick to a working time. In all situations, needs must.

hey what works for us is routine really . He is two on Saturday . He goes to bed at 7pm, half an hour before we wind down read, watch some tv etc. pyjamas on nappy change , then he helps us tidy away his toys . We then say goodbye to a few things (toys etc) and we go into his room. We always get him to switch off the light, say goodnight and we leave him. He falls asleep straight away and doesn’t wake until 6am, 90% of the time.

If he won’t sleep one of us lies next to him on the floor ( rug ready on standby) and around 10 mins later he will sleep.
If he wakes early we take it in turns to go into his room and lie next to him , falling asleep until around 6.

I don’t know other than with my kid but any issues we have had have always been a stage that passes. All the best and hope it gets sorted.

If you want to sleep, put her back in her bed EVERY time. Do this for 3 days and you problem will be solved, carry on letting her boss you about and it will be years of lack of sleep.

Lots of good stuff, thanks all.

I’m bound to start with the negative, so

ourmaninthenorth – Member
BTW the problem here is nothing to do with the child: it’s the OP blaming his wife for his disturbed sleep! Nice….

I’ve re-read my late night, desperate post which was written in the heat of the moment after a heated discussion with my wife and I can see why you might think I’m an arse but please do consider my state of mind before making any more judgements. Not that there isn’t any truth in what you say but it just doesn’t boil down that simply I’m afraid.

Just to clarify, I was / am peeved because there is no wiggle room. No compromises. No experiments. We did finally agree to a “gradual retreat”, as described by crankboy ^^^. I fear it’s destined to fail though. Our son’s cry does seem to set off something primal in both our heads. My reaction is to put on metaphorical ear defenders and wait. Mrs Removed’s reaction is to leap out of bed and comfort (or kick me in the nuts until I take off the mental protection and do it myself). She is utterly convinced that a crying child is damaging him / herself. It’s this belief which is at the root of the problem.

Yes, we both work – she’s a health professional, I’m a dilettante, slovenly artist photographer who should work harder. Still a full time **** job though.

MrsFla is a Paediatric consultant and she advocates the toddler taming approach – hopefully that will counteract some of the trendy rubbish you have heard.

MiniFla No1 did this at about 8 months and it took us a while to crack until we actually followed the book properly and except for the results of my genetics he is a completly normal happy, secure 7 year old

Basically you have to go in and calm them down in their bed and then leave, but you leave this for longer and longer periods until they dont cry out and easily comfort themselves back to sleep.

Go get the book, its ace

I have a mate who takes this approach when the baby cries. He tells his wife “it’s your baby, you wanted it” and turns over.

Imagine this said by a massive Romanian bloke.

He says it works every time.

When ours were going through the not sleeping stage we kept a duvet in their rooms and dozed on the floor till they settled. Had probably a year of disturbed nights with eldest, a few months with youngest. They never got into our bed unless they were proper poorly.

Worked for us. Friends had kids sharing with and disturbing them till they were 7 or 8, left them exhausted and put massive strain on their relationship.

I know which route I think is best. I would suggest that the OP needs to point out to his Mrs that his way works, her way is destroying them, and let her choose. Could get messy though.

I did the controlled crying thing at about 1, it worked really well but was hard, really hard.

I sat at the top of the stairs listening to her cry. I could have just gone downstairs and sat in the kitchen where it was much harder to hear, but hey, if she’s suffering I figured I should at least do her the courtesy of having my heart ripped out by her screams!

It took about 3 nights before she started being happy at bedtime, she’s been awesome at going to bed ever since.

hey what works for us is routine really . He is two on Saturday . He goes to bed at 7pm, half an hour before we wind down read, watch some tv etc. pyjamas on nappy change , then he helps us tidy away his toys . We then say goodbye to a few things (toys etc) and we go into his room. We always get him to switch off the light, say goodnight and we leave him. He falls asleep straight away and doesn’t wake until 6am, 90% of the time.

It’s a bit different in our house at bedtime if I’m honest. Both our daughters consider sleeping as a waste of their play time and so going to bed is the very last thing they ever want to do. Our 5 year old actually sleeps pretty well now, but she still cannot see the point of sleeping or eating, but that’s another story!

I feel I should add that luckily andyfla’s genetics seem quite weak and flaNo1 seems surprisingly normal….

Really grateful for all the real – world opinions and experiences. Thanks again. It’s nursery day today, so I’m trying to get some actual work done without falling asleep on the floor.

Fortunately our two took little effort to get into a good routine and we went down the controlled crying route. No lights on, no speaking, don’t lift out of their bed, just comfort until they relax and their eyes start to go.

The difference is we’d already talked prior and both agreed to take this route (we’d witnessed friends with slightly older kids going through it, who still had their kids in bed with them each night when they were at primary school).

It sounds like you’re going to have some difficulty convincing your wife to try your method (ideally you need to stick to it for a good few weeks) and as others have said it will get worse before it gets better as your nipper is now used to sleeping in your bed. Your wife may then revert to her preferred method and use it as a stick to beat you with. Have you got a spare room? I’d probably be sleeping in that 😀

If you want to sleep, put her back in her bed EVERY time. Do this for 3 days and you problem will be solved, carry on letting her boss you about and it will be years of lack of sleep.

This, 100% and it carries for other behaviours as well. I am sick to the back teeth of all the mollycoddled middleclass whimplings that I encounter who have grown up devoid of discipline and any self reliance. Every single decision, issue, crisis whatever involves a run back to mummy for a cuddle to sort it out. Watch how the Barnacle Goose does it if you want to know how to bring up kids in world that could turn harsh very quickly.

This, 100%

Lol.. it worked for you so it will definitely work for everyone else, cos all kids are the same!

Parenting’s not hard.. oh hang on.. yes it is.

My parenting advice is never take the parenting advice of anyone who thinks they have a simple cast iron solution to your problem. I’ll let you work out if this is ironic or not 🙂

Have you got a spare room? I’d probably be sleeping in that

Yes, as it happens. I tend to sleep either on the sofa or in my office until I wake up at 5 am with aching joints (I’m 41) just in time for it to be “my turn” because the wife has to get up and go to work in an hour.

I’ve always lived by three basic rules, learnt at boot camp; (as above) self reliance, leave people, places and things better than you found them, positive thinking. Thanks to John Ridgeway and his daughter Rebecca for these words of wisdom. I’m only falling down on the positive thinking bit just now…

Double post.

I’ll let you work out if this is ironic or not

I can’t, it is not cast iron enough

I am going for my tuppence worth, as always the usual disclaimer about my own children etc etc 🙂

My wife is a lecturer in child psychology and development, and has some pretty strong views about what is and isn’t harmful to children! For our two children we have done controlled crying, when we do go in and settle (after the normal night time routine of reading etc) then we don’t make eye contact, turn on the light, or speak. We simply go in and put them back into bed. They still have nights when they do wake up multiple times, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

I do think that the dad does have a role to play in this, in looking out for the needs of the mother, she is more tired, stressed and biologically programmed to put the needs of her baby above all else, my role was to take on everything else, and at times put her needs above that of the baby so that both of them could have a better nights sleep!

I am sick to the back teeth of all the mollycoddled middleclass whimplings that I encounter who have grown up devoid of discipline and any self reliance.

Is it just a middle class thing then? In what context are you encountering these people?

Lol.. it worked for you so it will definitely work for everyone else, cos all kids are the same!

Expect it will work in this case. If you sleep on your kids floor or let them in the bed don’t be surprised if you are not sleeping well.

The OP’s situation is exactly the same as mine. We use the controlled retreat approach or i should say Mrsred does, sadly I can’t cos thelittlered will only settle for her if disturbed in the night.

This coupled with the fact that i get up to thelittlered far more than Mrsred does led to me putting his travel cot in our room, he sleeps in there if he wakes up in the night. Works a treat.

Having kids is bloody hard work!

My take on this is that he needs to cry for three – five minutes before having a parent come in and comfort him, at which point he goes to sleep on his own bed. I know. I do it twice a week when mum’s out.

This is the case with ours. And with ours it’s pretty easy to tell the difference between proper distressed crying and just not being able to settle themselves. I read somewhere (probably one of the books mentioned in this thread) that you are training them to be able to get themselves to sleep and that jumping in too often isn’t doing them any favours. Took a while but the hard work has paid off for us. Also a lot easier second time around as we had a long list of mistakes we knew we didn’t want to repeat!

We did controlled crying, with me going in rather than the mrs.
It took a while, (4 nights?) but seems to work.
I’m guessing it doesn’t work in every situation.
Good luck.

I have a 10 year old girl and twin babies, 5 months old.

IMO what quickly become apparent is the differences between dads and mums. Most mums struggle to see their babies cried to sleep, it is hard (many dads feel the same). The trick is to remember that the sanity of the parents is important just like the needs of the baby. So if you need to cry them to sleep to allow you to survive then you should. As shown in many postings above, it can and does work. The baby learns to self sooth, to look after itself yet still know it is safe and secure and parents aren’t too far away. Its harder onmthe parents than the babies. Babies aren’t stupid, they know how to get what they think they want. as parents your job is ultimately to support them to independence, to teach them about life. It starts early.

The thing you need to realise is that not all kids are crying for the same reasons.

[/quote]I do think that the dad does have a role to play in this, in looking out for the needs of the mother

He speaks the truth!

our eldest is now 7, we used to take it in turns putting him to sleep and then he would sleep through the whole night and not disturb us…this was when he was 2…by the age of 3/4 we could just take him up and he would nod off by himself
however his cot bed was in our room at the time as we hadnt sorted his bedroom out yet as we were in the process of moving t a new house
our middle one is now 2.5 and has her own room as does her older brother.
she wont go to sleep in her own room so again we take it in turns to put her to sleep in our bed…once she’s well and truly knocked out i shift her to her room

we do get occasions where the eldest will try to sneak into our bed in the middle of the night because he’s had a bad dream but we can easily send him back or one of us will go and stay with him for a while until he’s asleep again
middle one does quite often come into our bed in the middle of the night and wont return of her own free will…but rather than wake up her now 5 month old baby bother we allow her to get into our bed…but once she is asleep again i will cart her off to her own bed

Is it just a middle class thing then? In what context are you encountering these people?

Yes based on my limited observations of the kids my son/daughter hang out with. Maybe I define middle class wrong, to me it’s an attitude not an income bracket.

People of any ‘class’ can indulge or spoil their kids, they just do it in slightly different ways.