Two crashes at Swinley yesterday

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  • Two crashes at Swinley yesterday
  • allthepies
    Member

    If callouts start happening at that rate then the gulley will be bulldozed 😮

    ricochet_rob
    Member

    It was a grim couple of hours, some dog walkers did come over and start going on about the risks of letting jumps remain, the least they could have done is wait till the young lad was taken away before getting on their soap box.

    We explained that you could remove them but people would just build their own elsewhere.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    I can see the landowners (FC?) getting twitchy if the air ambulance is having to attend that regularly.

    and if people did build their own elsewhere it might limit numbers if they weren't as well known?

    coffeeking
    Member

    The problem is it is stupid to call an air ambulance out at that rate, is it not road accessible?

    ricochet_rob
    Member

    A normal ambulance was there for the first, it looked pretty serious so the air ambulance was called to get him out, I would presume with suspected spinal problems the bumpy ride through the forest is not ideal ??

    ricochet_rob
    Member

    Mid afternoon, Air Ambulance out for the first lad. He went down at the gully and looked pretty bad. I think his Dad was with him.

    10 mins after the helicopter takes him away, another chap going down in front of me (Banjo Cycles top) face plants in the gully, snapped arm/wrist and pretty confused.

    I saw the helicopter coming back a while later, I presume it was for him.

    Anyone know how they both are ?

    Was a real eye opener for my lad, witnessed his first proper accident, and then saw another an hour later. Shook him up a little but he wants to go back next week still !

    coffeeking
    Member

    Hmmm see this is the problem with putting a jumpy section deep in a forest, seems a bit odd design-wise for me. Same with the likes of llandegla, the first jumpy black bit you come to is about as far from the road as you could get. They always suspect a spinal injury, with good reason, so it basically means that pretty much any accident on a jump section is going to be air-lifted if it's not road accessible.

    lyons
    Member

    well, the 'jumps' at the gully are appaling. They dont work, are badly built and are just a bit crap really. Its not surprising people hurt themselves.

    The problem is it is stupid to call an air ambulance out at that rate, is it not road accessible?

    I would assume the emergency services take the decision to call our the air ambulance.

    toys19
    Member

    I'm sure there is a special air ambulance hotline..

    well, the 'jumps' at the gully are appaling. They dont work, are badly built and are just a bit crap really. Its not surprising people hurt themselves.

    ???

    2 nice small tabletops for beginners/mincers

    The big tabletop which is quite small if you go right or big if you go left gives somethign to progress on

    And the 'double' is just pronounced enough to ctch your wheel on and let you know you need to go faster/higher/further next time.

    Then theres the bigger hip jimps off to one side, and all the drop offs.

    I'd say as a set of jumps they border on ideal!

    I'm sure there is a special air ambulance hotline..

    Not for emergencies surely? Wouldn't that be 999????? The only hotline I have ever seen is for donations/lottery tickets etc.

    ricochet_rob
    Member

    Agreed thisisnotaspoon.

    toys19
    Member

    It was a joke inspired by the comment above about calling out the air ambulance for silly things and the sensible response about it being the choice of the emergency services not the caller. Oscar Wilde said "To be truly boring tell everything" and now I have become just that…

    coffeeking
    Member

    I would assume the emergency services take the decision to call our the air ambulance.

    True, and a fair point, but I do wonder if they're over-eager?

    Sorry – my tongee-in-cheek detector is failing today.
    🙁

    rootes1
    Member

    well, the 'jumps' at the gully are appaling. They dont work, are badly built and are just a bit crap really. Its not surprising people hurt themselves.

    perhaps evidence of the decline of maths and physics in schools?

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    when yo call 999 you get the emergancy operator – who will call out the air ambulance according to parameters they have. They are not medically trainied in any way nor are they making a medical asseessment – but say head or spine injuries and away from the road and the air ambulance will appear needed or not.

    Who knows if it was needed here? Certainly not us nor the telephone operator. Teh only person who can tell is a trained person at the scene.

    I would bet 90% of the time it is not needed tho.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    the air ambulance will appear needed or not

    a bit like the shopkeeper in Mr Ben then?

    coffeeking
    Member

    TJ – that's what I was attempting to get across but was somewhat less elloquent.

    coffeeking
    Member

    My thoughts on that are compounded by the air-rescue-camera-action vids that are all over TV showign them turning up to someone who's slipped and fallen and broken an arm and is having a whinge on a hillside 500m from the road. I suppose they are edited to give a view rather than a documentary, but still seems they're often called out to stuff where people should MTFU. But I'm sure it's easy to say that from the comfort of your own chair.

    toys19
    Member

    Dude read the link….

    hora
    Member

    Air Ambulance x2?

    Seriously how far is this section from the nearest road?

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Interesting stuff in that link toys

    soobalias
    Member

    its spitting distance to fire roads, but a long walk with a stretcher

    toys19
    Member

    I think it kind of kicks any anger or offence people may have about calling the air ambulance into touch, the dispatchers call the shots. I imagine it must also be difficult to gauge the severity of an incident when reported by members of the public. I was once the first on the scene to a horriffic motorcycle accident and in a kind of british reserve panic described the bloke who was bleeding to death in the road as "not very well" and the dispatcher had to probe quite hard to get me to actually define what his condition was. Not being a very reserved chap I was surprised at how my behaviour changed in the heat of the moment..

    Premier Icon tonyg2003
    Subscriber

    After busting my collarbone and getting concussed at Swinley last year I have unfortunately first hand experience of these events. If there is any concussion the air amubulance is called out. By the time it landed for me I was completely lucid (well for me anyway :)) and frankly quite embrassed about the fuss. I got a lift out with the ranger in his truck – about 1.5miles and then an amublance. It was a bit rough but Ok.

    TJ is quite right. You ring up and tell the 999 operator the injury status and they decide whether you need an ambulance/helicopter. You don't ring for a helicopter.

    I was at Swinley yesterday and seeing the landrover ambulance in the woods at the first crash it brough but too many bad memories. I presume that a landrover amublance is a new feature to get people evaced out of the woods?

    I hope that the lads are OK.

    DT78
    Member

    Was there yesterday as well and saw one of the incidents.

    Is there a charity tin for the air ambulance where you buy the passes? I'll definitely be sticking a few quid in next time I see one.

    ricochet_rob
    Member

    I think we all owe them a good few donations since we are possible future customers..

    thatscold
    Member

    I also had an OTB on the double at the end of the jump gully about 2 years ago, fortunately I didn't require an ambulance. It still took me 6 months to feel fully fit again.

    It made me very cautious of those jumps, I know they are not particularly special, but you can still hurt yourself!

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Toys – I think that is unusual in that you have trained dispatchers and I am still absolutely certain it is used in many instances where it is not merited. Broken wrists and the like.

    Tony – my point is the majority of the ambulance telephone operators are not medically trained at all so will always err on the side of caution and send out air ambulances where they are not necessarily needed. Mention head and / or spinal ijury as a possibility and you get teh air ambulance.

    How many of these air ambulance incidents has the use of the air ambulance actually made any significant difference to the casualty?

    donks
    Member

    Have any of you got the ads to the side with the model copters?? cheeky bstards….they spring up at the mere hint of a topic and pedal their merchandise…could have been that both lads were killed and they are here trying to sell RC toys.

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    It would be interesting to know how many call-outs there are in a year at Swinley and whether this figure changes from year to year.

    Swinley is a victim of its own success so therefore more people are riding trails that they don't know. There is no grading system, after all it is not a trail centre, but do wonder whether some should have a warning.

    I am the last person who wants to babysit folk but having witnessed an accident that resulted in the air ambulance being called out last Winter, perhaps now is the time to commence dialogue with Crown Estate/your average Joe etc.

    toys19
    Member

    TandemJeremy – Member

    Toys – I think that is unusual in that you have trained dispatchers and I am still absolutely certain it is used in many instances where it is not merited. Broken wrists and the like.

    This is laughable, I provide you with evidence to refute your spurious armchair claims, and you still insist on peddling your opinionated rubbish. What evidence exactly do you have of:

    1) Untrained dispatchers.
    2) air ambulances being sent out for spurious reasons.

    The DAAT site acknowledges that there are mistakes from the DAAT site

    The dispatchers are specially trained and have spent time shadowing their aircrew colleagues. It is their decision to intercept any 999 call they think suitable for Air Ambulance deployment. Their expertise has resulted in a 30% drop in the helicopters being sent on to inappropriate missions and a decrease in it being overlooked deployed to jobs where it can truly make a difference to patient care.

    How do you propose exactly to avoid incorrect deployment, surely it makes more sense to send the Air Ambulance rather than not, just in case the injured person is a winger who needs to MTFU? Seeing as for example the Devon air ambulance is a charity they seem pretty pleased with the way they dispatch their copters. Why are you insisting in perpetuating this idea that somehow anyone who injures themselves more than 10M from a road automatically fones 999 and insists on the Air Ambulance because they just are not as "back country" as you?

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    Can I mention that there is a large hospital about 5 miles away from Swinley Forest.

    I do know that after the January accident, the air ambulance used another hospital approx 12 miles away.

    toys19
    Member

    In fact I'm currently googling air ambulances around the UK and one thing I keep finding is "team of trained dispatchers" mentioned including the TVAAC which cover Swinley and the scottish air ambulance service which I believe covers where you live TJ?

    TandemJeremy
    Member

    Toys – you missed my point. Devon is unusual in having specifically trained air ambulance dispatchers. I acknowledged that. Untrained dispatcher – my friend is one.

    I really can't be bothered with this again – but just look at the number of "walking wounded" from here who have been in air ambulances.

    The risk is if you send them to every accident then they are not available when someone really needs one. Mind you tey are not available in many parts of the country anyway.

    Edit – we are meaning trained in different ways – I meant as in having a recognised medical type qualification that would allow them to assess on medical need.

    Premier Icon cinnamon_girl
    Subscriber

    The air ambulance regularly lands at Swinley. Some of this can be attributed to the jump gulley where unfortunately many youngsters do not wear helmets/padding/trail-worthy bikes. Actually that goes for a few adults too.

    Is there any way of finding out the number of call-outs?

    toys19
    Member

    I think I see your point exactly. I cannot see why you are trying to make it.

    Kent – HEMS desk to dispatch air ambulances
    London – Highly Trained Dispatch Team
    East anglia

    Missions are controlled from the main NHS Ambulance Trust’s HQ. Here a team of trained operators will assess every emergency call against a pre-determined set of criteria to establish whether a helicopter should be called out

    North west air ambulance – trained controllers in a dedicated control room click here
    Yorkshire

    The charity was set up in 2000 and with the addition of the second air ambulance in October 2007, we were the first Air Ambulance in the UK to own and operate a Dedicated Air Desk

    How exactly do you propose to solve this perceived dispatch problem and the associated "air ambulance calling for no reason" malaise in the average UK outdoors person that you have identified?

    I'll take your comment that "you cannot be bothered to go over this again" as tacit acceptance that you wish you hadn't put your foot in your mouth again but as usual you are not man enough to admit when you are wrong. In fact I would go far as saying that you put your personal pride and ego over any consideration of truth and the effect your continuous posturing on this forum has.

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