Tweedlove Intl Enduro course chat

Aye, might just bin it altogether.

I’ll take your entry… Or just Sunday?

Well I’ve said to them I can’t make it so someone on the waiting list should get lucky

I’m gutted

My mate got on the seeded list, but his broken ankle means he’s unlikely to have make it

I’m about to tell them I can’t make it so if you’re on the waiting list you might get lucky

If I was to decide to race it, there would be sudden panic unleashed in the TweedLove offices 😉

But they’d be a meeeeellion dollars better off, no?

This is my first time at Tweedlove and first time racing Enduro! Starting to get a little nervous, especially looking at the weather. Fitness is as good as it’s ever been but am more concerned about the steep bits!

How steep are they compared with say the black run at Aston Hill if anyone has done both?

We were planning to drive up Friday morning (6 hours or so) but that means we can’t register until the evening so couldn’t practice until Saturday morning, so I think we’ll now travel up Thursday afternoon so we can practice the tougher sections on Friday.

Is it stages 5 and 6 that we should be looking to focus on? Any other trails which could catch us out?

Am I correct in thinking a full face is the sensible option..?

5 & 6 probably the most consistently steep/challenging

full face is totally up to you, generally most locals will ride open face day to day though

How steep are they compared with say the black run at Aston Hill if anyone has done both?

Haven’t done Aston Hill but here’s my view (I’m a bottom of the field mincer)

Day 1

Stage 1 – Very long and physical. Flowy trail centre section to start, short climb then cuts right into a 100% natural section. Flat and rooty to start then gets steeper. It’s quite steep in places but isn’t too technical. Stay off the brakes and let it roll. A chute spits you out onto a fireroad then it’s a looooong trail centre descent. Very rough and undulating and fast as hell. You’ll be breathing out your arse by the end. Nothing technical, just very physical

Stage 2 – Very technical natural section to start. Not particularly steep but very tight and nadgery. It’s had a lot of work done though and it’s riding well. Disgusting short climb takes you to a fresh-ish link section into a bit of red graded trail centre. Big slippy roots and a nasty drop at the end which isn’t rollable. There’s a chicken line but I doubt it’s in (it wasn’t for the EWS)

Stage 3 – Mix of black and red trail centre stuff. Nice and flowy mainly with a few rough techy bits. Final bit is called “super steep” or “ponduro”. Tight and steep through the trees. Last couple of corners always catch me out.

Day 2

Stage 4 – Nice loamy flowy natural section to start, fire road sprint then into one of the newest trails in the valley; Flat White. Very, very fast and loose. Non stop berms from top to bottom with a lot of braking bumps (sneak preview: https://vimeo.com/159633355 )

Stage 5 – Horrible rut through the heather to start then into the trees. Nasty little climb as soon as you hit the trees, fast as hell off camber straight. Couple of techy corners, horrible rock garden, onto the fireroad then an uphill sprint, turn right, nice and flowy, suddenly gets very steep and techy. I take it very easy through here.

Stage 6 – Nice flat fast start, a horrible traverse that will be a mudfest if the rain materialises, onto the fireroad for an uphill sprint, sharp left down a steep chute, traverse right then turn left…into crazy steep. I get overwhelmed mentally on this section (pro-spacker) as it’s so steep and relentless, you need to think three corners ahead. Levels out for a fast blast through the trees then a nadgery finish

Stage 7 – Apparently mostly the Cresta Run top to bottom so classic Inners DH. Not too steep, nice and flowy

Stages 5 and 6 will cause me problems (they have in the past)

That’s great BoardinBob – perfect insider info! Think we’ll focus our practice efforts on stages 5 and 6.

is it a big climb to get to those sections?

Not a huge climb. Climb on the golfie side (stage 5) is a long fire road then a push through some heather

Stage 6 is fairly long, almost to minch moor summit, but the route they’ve picked out is fairly direct and cuts out most of the trail centre meandering. Once you’ve done the lower “pro-spacker” section, it’s easy to loop back round and do it again depending on how brave/mad/good you are!

I’d open face it but it’s a personal preference, you’d definitely not be daft to wear a full face, put it that way. Inners day especially.

TBH practice wise, all the trails would benefit from it but 5 and 6 are the ones most likely to **** you up I reckon. 1 and 2 have huge amounts of time to be made or lost just by hitting it at the right time, knowing how fast you can do the traverse in 5YP and how hard you can pedal out the end of stage 1 and staying off the speed-killer lines on 2… (they all have techy bits, but the way I see it, if you can race 5 and 6 then none of the GT stages should cause you much bother… it’ll be the difference between fast and slow mostly, not ride or die 😆

7 is going to be a bit of a wildcard, depends how it’s taped. Personally I’d want to practice that in particular just because, from experience, these stages can be picked out and taped pretty confusingly, and that means lost time even if you ride it clean.

Is it a big climb to the start of stage 1. Ive ridden it once before at king and queen last year so not sure if I should practice again or save my legs. Would it be easy to find the start of stage 2 without following the whole thing round?

Is it a big climb to the start of stage 1

An hour for most people.

Would it be easy to find the start of stage 2

Yes. It starts on a fire road near the blue and red trails.

https://www.strava.com/segments/1762086?filter=overall

The assessments above are spot on. In terms of balancing both physical fitness and skill, this is bang on I think. Lots of potential to lose huge amounts of time if your fitness is lacking. Which mine is – but I’m looking forward to this enormously. Flat White in Stage 4 is simply a joy – it’s like being punched in the face with berm after berm…

Just been YouTubing some of the tracks – Flat White looks awesome fun!! My fitness is as good as it’s ever been but is more focused towards going hard for 2 hours rather than 6…..

Now where did I put that hidden motor….

Stage 2 (broon troot) starts more or less at waymarker 21- very easy to get to, it’s just along the same fire road as Hit Squad Hill. And I assume will be taped up? But if not, if you reach the exit of Betty Blue you’ve gone too far.

Flat White is absolutely fantastic. Though could see some epic crashes…

Though could see some epic crashes…

I can’t decide if more people are going to die on flat white, or jawbone, or prospacker. I might go wearing scrubs if I watch on flat white

For me

I reckon S1 is 10 minutes (I did it in 9:50 at the 2014 EWS which was bang on average, and that included a crash). That was good enough for 115th out of 185 at the EWS

S2 is about 4 minutes 30 based on my Strava times

S3 is about 4 minutes 30

S4 is about 4 minutes 30

S5 is 8 minutes 30. That’s what it took me in the 2014 EWS, fastest time was 4:48, slowest 20:19, average 7:50

S6 is probably 9 minutes based on Strava

S7 is probably 4 minutes 30

Nice mix of stuff

S5 is 8 minutes 30. That’s what it took me in the 2014 EWS, fastest time was 4:48, slowest 20:19, average 7:50

Good Lord – those pros are just on another level!

We are travelling up Thursday morning. Thanks for the stage info. Will show it to Abigale when I get home. It all helps

S5 is 8 minutes 30. That’s what it took me in the 2014 EWS, fastest time was 4:48, slowest 20:19, average 7:50

Good Lord – those pros are just on another level!

Different sport entirely.

I heard someone should “rider” in practice, pulled in and witnessed Cedric Gracia blast past me at full beanz. Awe inspiring and soul destroying at the same time.

How steep are they compared with say the black run at Aston Hill if anyone has done both?

Yes, use to live in Bucks and now in the Borders.

Different world…, although a wet Aston Hill needs as much respect as a wet Prospaker 🙂

The key difference is height, for example the bit that Northwind is glad that’s been missed out (Minch to start of preSpaker) has a vertical drop not far off Aston Hills Black – and then it gets steeper, far steeper.

If its wet, well-treaded tyres (Hans, Marys, Shortys etc) are a necessity for the front.

Stage 3 – Mix of black and red trail centre stuff. Nice and flowy mainly with a few rough techy bits. Final bit is called “super steep” or “ponduro”. Tight and steep through the trees. Last couple of corners always catch me out.

Yep, big crowd at last years K&Q to see me go OTB 🙂

Oh my days! Only bit I’ve not ridden previously is stage 6 – pros packer. Just been and walked it. I have absolutely no idea how I’m gonna get down some of that…..it’s not even walkable. Met someone doing some trail work on it, he said “don’t worry, loads of people will be walking this”. Jawbone and walk or burn ok, apart from couple of bits and that very last bit of jawbone.

Everything apart from stages 5 and 6 are gonna be fantastic. I’ll be my usual bottom of the pack but just gonna concentrate on riding it.

Good luck everyone.

Given the weather forecast and the specific risk due to speed/obstacles for each trail, I provide the following rating for the trails:

Ugh, forum doesn’t support Emoji, so there goes my Ambulance Emoji chart. Let’s just say there are lots of ambulances parked at the bottom of Walk or Burn and Pro “Spacer”.

Hope you’ve all got mud tyres for Day 2. 😉

it’s not even walkable

yeah it’s one of those ones that’s probably easier to ride. having said that I’ve never cleaned it. i suspect at the mortals end of the field if one person walks it everyone will have to walk it as there’s not really another way past, depending how they tape it.

In the mortals group, are riders likely to get bunched together? Do you start at intervals or one straight after the other?

Magic Mary’s on (Front and rear!) but not expecting them to perform miracles!

@bigjim yes it’s taped pretty tight – that was my thinking, that it’s a problem walking / sliding down it if riders are trying to pass.

@hughjayteens – you go at 30 second intervals, but slower riders (like me) always get caught and get used to hearing ‘rider!’ Shouted at you to get out of the way. It works fine except on the steeps where it’s really difficult to find somewhere to stop, and if you do, getting back in the bike is a bit difficult.

Thanks julzm. Is it bad form to wait until it is safe to pull over out of the way assuming the guy behind you won’t be a front runner anyway?

Thanks julzm. Is it bad form to wait until it is safe to pull over out of the way assuming the guy behind you won’t be a front runner anyway?

One thing I do is tell the start marshall that the guy in front is faster than me and to also leave space behind – they are then usually fine with me starting a few seconds after the guy in front (very handy if the one in front is a very fast mate), and also I find that the guy behind leaves more time too.

hughjayteens – Member

Thanks julzm. Is it bad form to wait until it is safe to pull over out of the way assuming the guy behind you won’t be a front runner anyway?

Absolute first rule is, only try and let folks past when it’s safe. Sometimes that means a little delay but it’s way better than trying to pull some mad evasion and ending up taking you both out.

I don’t know what timing we’re using… I’ll be at the start of stage 6 so if there’s a capacity to give you a gap, let me know and I’ll do it. But tbh it won’t make a massive difference on a stage like that because a fast dude will have caught you in prespacker never mind prospacker. So don’t freak, just get on with it and as far as possible don’t worry about the other guys, except for the brief moments when you have to.

(in EWS last year the alphabet seeding meant I had Tom Dowie a couple of places behind me and he passed me in literally every stage, sometimes even while I was catching the dude in front. It got slightly old! In waterworld I was freaking out about being caught in the narrows where I knew I just couldn’t make space, so I ended up distracted and riding slower and got caught faster. Doesn’t help anyone. (I actually had a ghost rider and pulled over in a wide spot for… nobody at all, I’d imagined it)

Thing with prospacker that makes it different to the other trails is basically a minimum entry requirement; even if you’re struggling with the other trails you can probabably tripod and skid and generally fall down them. But prospacker’s crux moves, if you can’t do it you just can’t do it. It’s a different proposition

It’s not actually that hard! Honestly. It’s committing but once you’re in you’ll come out the bottom, guaranteed. Not necessarily connected to your bike. Lots of the other stages require more skill to ride well, the difference is mostly about alarmingness. The lefthander with the rock in the entrance especially is actually just a big pussycat but if you’re thinking about that rock it will **** you. You just have to calmly ride round it then down the steep, same as you would on any other short steep. But it feels like aaaargh! Rock! Corner! Steep! Even though it’s really flat corner, then a steep afterwards.

This isn’t skills advice btw, I’m not that good… So if I can do it, it’s attainable and it’s mostly headology. Better riders than me will fail to ride parts of these stages that I’d do no bother, because they’ve let it shit them up. In EWS practice 2014 I couldn’t really do jawburn at all, it totally beat me. On race day I had my best stage of the weekend and passed about 10 people 😆

I don’t know what timing we’re using…

It’s the Air system

Yah but the hardware isn’t all there is to it.

(I actually had a ghost rider and pulled over in a wide spot for… nobody at all, I’d imagined it)

Ha I’ve done this a couple of times too.

Prospacker was in a SES race last year, the stage had been cancelled by the time we got to it but the chat was there was a queue before the steep bit, not sure if that’s true, just what I heard. It’s not worth getting worried about anyway, whether you ride it or not it’s only a minute or two of the whole day.

Northwind – Member

Absolute first rule is, only try and let folks past when it’s safe. Sometimes that means a little delay but it’s way better than trying to pull some mad evasion and ending up taking you both out.

I don’t know what timing we’re using… I’ll be at the start of stage 6 so if there’s a capacity to give you a gap, let me know and I’ll do it. But tbh it won’t make a massive difference on a stage like that because a fast dude will have caught you in prespacker never mind prospacker. So don’t freak, just get on with it and as far as possible don’t worry about the other guys, except for the brief moments when you have to.

(in EWS last year the alphabet seeding meant I had Tom Dowie a couple of places behind me and he passed me in literally every stage, sometimes even while I was catching the dude in front. It got slightly old! In waterworld I was freaking out about being caught in the narrows where I knew I just couldn’t make space, so I ended up distracted and riding slower and got caught faster. Doesn’t help anyone. (I actually had a ghost rider and pulled over in a wide spot for… nobody at all, I’d imagined it)

Thing with prospacker that makes it different to the other trails is basically a minimum entry requirement; even if you’re struggling with the other trails you can probabably tripod and skid and generally fall down them. But prospacker’s crux moves, if you can’t do it you just can’t do it. It’s a different proposition

It’s not actually that hard! Honestly. It’s committing but once you’re in you’ll come out the bottom, guaranteed. Not necessarily connected to your bike. Lots of the other stages require more skill to ride well, the difference is mostly about alarmingness. The lefthander with the rock in the entrance especially is actually just a big pussycat but if you’re thinking about that rock it will **** you. You just have to calmly ride round it then down the steep, same as you would on any other short steep. But it feels like aaaargh! Rock! Corner! Steep! Even though it’s really flat corner, then a steep afterwards.

This isn’t skills advice btw, I’m not that good… So if I can do it, it’s attainable and it’s mostly headology. Better riders than me will fail to ride parts of these stages that I’d do no bother, because they’ve let it shit them up. In EWS practice 2014 I couldn’t really do jawburn at all, it totally beat me. On race day I had my best stage of the weekend and passed about 10 people

Thanks Northwind. Will be sure to say hello if I can still speak!

I’d be more concerned about Jaw Bone than Pro-Spacker.
Pro-Spacker is just steep single track, whereas Jaw Bone has that boulder field that’s just steep enough to give speed control issues if you hit it wrong.
Although there is the new entrance to PS, but I’m not sure if that’ll be getting used…

Might go for spin that way tomorrow, if not too many things go tits up in the plan!

The new entrance looked to be blocked off yesterday, so it’s the steep drop in option.

Quick question re Feed Stations. Do they have food or just drinks at them? Is it just energy bars etc?

Think I’ll take some ‘proper’ food in my pack as I’d imagine I’d be sick of energy food after 4 or 5 hours.

Any tips?

Cheers

The new entrance looked to be blocked off yesterday, so it’s the steep drop in option.

The steep drop in, is the new entrance…

Feed stations usually have water, bananas and cakes.

Ok, officially bricking it!! especially after watchin youtube vids of most of the sections, as i’ll be coming up friday morning after a working week, so not sure i’ll get to practice too much! especially as the fitness isn’t quite where i want it but hey ho!

Mainly used to riding steep and rocky here in the peaks, and mostly clipped in. Now i did ride flats over winter so id be fine on them… now not been totally used to steep muddy tree chutes and tight turns can anyone give me any advice on whether the flats would be the way to go? i know its prob down to personal preference, but thinking the ability to quickly stick a foot might be a good idea.

Thanks in a advance 🙂