Turbocharger replacement… I have gambled poorly.

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  • Turbocharger replacement… I have gambled poorly.
  • parkesie
    Member

    Replace oil feed remove sump and clean it out flush as much of the engine through as you can.

    Find a engine that hasnt lunched its turbo fit and fit that 🙂

    rc200f8
    Member

    Don’t know about mondeos but a lot of manufactures put a fine gauze filter in the banjo bolts in one end or the other of the turbo oil feed pipe, this is usually blocked with carbonated oil resulting in instant oil starvation – check the banjo bolts are clear.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    So, long story short, Mondeo 2.2 mk3 turbo lunched itself a while back. Decided to get a remanufactured unit cheap and fit it without doing any of the other preventative medicine (other than oil change)- Car has 120000 miles on which it seems is well into the mileage where they just fail without external cause. So didn’t bother replacing the oil feed etc as it added a lot to the cost of the repair (and tbf I wasn’t 100% confident the engine had survived so there was a risk it was good money after bad).

    Well no, not in this case, replacement is trashed 🙁 Knew it was a gamble so not too cut up about it, but now need a plan B. Car is otherwise fine, at least I got a useful diagnostic out of it! 3 contenders I think- bad replacement turbo, bad fitting, and oil starvation due to an external fault- and I’m pretty convinced it’s #3

    So… I’m figuring I’ll get a chra and fit it into the recon unit this time round as it’s otherwise in good shape (old one was quite damaged as the end of the shaft snapped off and got hammered around the casing- high rev fail). So yes will replace oil feed… But anything else?

    I’m a decent fitter but really not a car mechanic so I can put the bits together right but I can’t always tell what bits to put together!

    IanW
    Member

    Not sure what’s the situation, has the new turbo failed?
    I did one a while ago got the turbo from a place in Wakefield who weren’t the cheapes but very helpful. There advise was defo change oil feed as well which was harder to fit than the turbo but seems likely to be reason the original turbo broke. Also took the intercooler apart as most the engine oil seemed to have found it way into there.

    Anyway it’s been on about 10k miles now and all fine, better than before tbh. If the cars otherwise good give it another go.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    @IanW- yep, new one is deaded. Caught it early so it’s less explosively dead than the last one, but still dead.

    @parkesie- cheers for that. Didn’t plan to go as far as dropping the sump but it seems like good practice. New engine definitely not an option- ST motors not that common and frankly the car’s not worth enough to get into that. And frankly not sure there’s any point- the one upside of this whole ****-up is that I got to roadtest it post big-turbo-explosion and it seems fine, drove normally. So basically, I think it needs a turbo and it needs a turbo-destroying problem fixed and that’s it. Oh and a wheel bearing but that’s kinda fiddling while rome burns 😉

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Hmmmmm. This took an unexpected turn. When I stopped the car, the turbo was obviously damaged- looked in the intake, compressor wheel visibly chewed. I put that down to play in the journal allowing it to contact the housing, seemed the obvious answer- oil stops play.

    But I just pulled the dead charger out of the car, and it spins like new, no play in it either. There’s not a chance this has hit the housing- looks like something’s hit it.

    Now I checked the intake tract for debris, and I suppose I can’t rule out the possibility that I missed something. But equally it’s put material defect back on the menu… ie it’s hit itself.

    What do you reckon?

    (next step- lots of intake and intercooler cleaning and fragment searching)

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    You left a bolt in the pipes?

    Premier Icon paladin
    Subscriber

    Must’ve been something small to cause so little damage

    PeterPoddy
    Member

    Stop throwing good money after bad and buy something with a petrol engine.

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    Interesting that the damage is just to alternate vanes (well that’s what it looks like).
    The damaged ones also look to have a different profile (taller=closer to the inlet).

    The question I’d now be asking is how much damage have all the missing bits of impeller vane done to the engine itself?

    Premier Icon finishthat
    Subscriber

    you cleaned out the intercooler and all airside pipework right?

    if not then you have just seen what debris from the old turbo can do to the new one ..

    Marmoset
    Member

    As above, you may have an engine that’s not going to last much longer now stuff’s passed through the turbo. I’d be taking a glow plug or two out and having a looking with an arthroscope(or somesuch thingy)

    klumpy
    Member

    I’d be taking a glow plug or two out and having a looking with an arthroscope(or somesuch thingy)

    And if that other thread is anything to go by, opt for sedation rather than throat spray.

    Then buy a 27.5 inch turbo to make the engine come alive

    Then buy a 27.5 inch turbo to make the engine come alive

    😀

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Cheers folks…

    Simple explanation is a bit of debris in the air intake isn’t it… I did clean it out but I figure we must be talking something small here so I can’t rule out overlooking it in all the nooks and crannies. I was wondering about one of the vanes losing a bit (and then effectively running into itself), or maybe some other thing like mad overspeed, but those don’t seem as likely. (can’t see any cause for an overspeed, no split hoses or anything)

    richmars – Member

    Interesting that the damage is just to alternate vanes (well that’s what it looks like). The damaged ones also look to have a different profile (taller=closer to the inlet).

    Aye, it’s a dual vane design so whatever it was hit the top ones but never hit the bottom ones. Which I don’t know, either implies it got more or less mashed to dust by the first row, or it flukily passed through without touching the second row. Or it bounced back up the inlet tract as the turbo slowed!

    Sanity check… The engine ran normally other than the loss of boost and power so that’s in its favour. My instinct is not to look beyond the boost pipes and intercooler, ie easy places to look. Beyond that, it gets complicated pretty fast, with no guarantees of really achieving much- if we’re talking tiny bits of metal, they could evade inspection anyway. And if I find bad news, well, that’s not so much better than finding it later by driving the car. Does that sound reasonable?

    PeterPoddy – Member

    Stop throwing good money after bad and buy something with a petrol engine.

    I nearly bought the petrol version- so far the 2 injectors and now 2 turbos work out pretty similiar to the saving in tax. And the saving in fuel has paid for the entire car 🙂 So I think I will live.

    toemul
    Member

    Could you just take the turbo off and run it without.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Nah, the turbo’s built into the exhaust manifold on these. It does start and idle though (well it did til I took the turbo off!), and when it broke it ran happily while I was stopping etc- boost aside obviously.

    (I wonder what sort of power it’d make naturally aspirated if I fixed the fuelling… Not very much!)

    So it’s not like some chunk has already caused havoc, I’d bet an entire scottish pound that the engine is untouched so far… but it’s always possible there’s something in there waiting to make itself known, like a rake in the grass. That’s basically the decision… I don’t think I can make an educated call on that really but I’m inclined to suck it and see. (and squeeze it, and bang it, and hopefully not blow it)

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Do you believe in lucky (or unlucky) things? Given it’s dunking, smoking and now turbo blowing I’d be very tempted to fix it and flog it. A recon turbo shouldn’t be *that* much should it?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I wonder what sort of power it’d make naturally aspirated if I fixed the fuelling

    I suspect the ‘fuelling’ (or rather injection quantity) would sort itself out based on the MAF reading, but you’d certainly get a load of error codes about boost pressure. Only way to fix this would be a custom remap, probably, or some complicated electronic work to fool the ECU to thinking it’s got the right amount of boost it’s asked for. Actually even with the MAF working it would smell a rat probably.

    In any case, even if you could fix this, you’d get naff all power because the compresison ratio of an engine designed for turbocharging is quite a bit less than a NA one.

    I’d be very tempted to fix it and flog it.

    You wouldnm’t get much for it if you were honest about it.. are you suggesting dishonesty?

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    You wouldnm’t get much for it if you were honest about it.. are you suggesting dishonesty?

    Not at all. What are you implying?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Not implying anything, I asked directly 🙂

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    OK, so what makes you think that I may have been suggesting dishonesty?

    I’m genuinely intrigued.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    @geoffj… I like the car and realistically it’d mean a downgrade. And though it’s been a pain lately, at least I know about it 😉 In theory all the other stuff is now history, and was all reasonable enough stuff- injectors and turbo at this age are definitely within spec.

    So yeah, what I want to do is fix it and keep it. Will it play ball? Don’t know yet. But I don’t think it’s a basket case, or parked on an ancient indian burial ground, or otherwise bejinxed.

    1) Time to check out all the intake pipework, filter & cooler. Sort the oil supply. Fit another turbo. Cross fingers.

    and

    2) How much is this car worth? I’d be thinking of trade in at this stage.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    @Northwind – better the devil you know and all that! 🙂

    ScottChegg
    Member

    are you suggesting dishonesty?

    If it’s fixed there’s nothing to tell.

    IanW
    Member

    Oh and a wheel bearing

    I did the wheel bearings at the same time, they were more difficult! (Audi pressed into the disc type.)

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    1) Ironically, I suspect the oil supply is actually fine. I’ll change the line anyway, it was stupid not to do it last time, but doesn’t seem to have come into it.

    2) Car was £2000 when I got it, I’ve put 25000 miles on it since, realistically even without grumbles it’s not worth a lot (it’s cosmetically rough as a badger’s arse but it still seems fundamentally solid). I think on balance it’s worth more to me than it is to sell, you know? Unless of course it shits the bed again next week, then I’ll end up beating it with a stick.

    @IanW, wheel bearing is pretty trivial, I just don’t feel like fixing it til I’ve done a few miles post-turbo-geddon 🙂

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Will it play ball?

    What people don’t realise is that a car is not one thing, it’s a collection of things. If one goes wrong, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all unreliable and will go wrong again.

    OK, so what makes you think that I may have been suggesting dishonesty?

    Nothing – you said sell it, it wasn’t clear if you meant bodge it to fool a buyer knowing it’d go wrong later, or give full disclosure. After all, if it’s fixed then why sell it?

    I asked you to clarify, you did – that’s all there is to it.

    I’m intrigued to know why YOU think I was suggesting you were suggesting dishonesty 🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    even id have given up by now northwind on account of the dunking – the real cost of that is yet to rear its head imo….

    id fix it and flog it – or id possibly even cut my losses at sticking it on ebay as spares or repairs.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    I’m with Northwind. It’s worth fixing unless it’s specifically expensively borked – like a cracked block or severe rust or something.

    Remember the market value of a car is unrelated to its practical value.

    neilnevill
    Member

    Are you not making the classic banger owners mistake? Another turbo, oil line, wheel bearing (easy yes but Mondeo front wheel bearings are big and a bit more costly than most…. I got caught out they way)…. You are half way towards the cost of a tells replacement with 25k less on the clock…. Over maybe. Purely financially this must be close, or favour replacement. So then the issue is, is hunting for the replacement less hassle, or more, fixing this car?

    trail_rat
    Member

    replacement is unknown though – i understand that aspect how ever just the fact that this one has been flooded is enough for me to be out on that one.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Another turbo, oil line, wheel bearing (easy yes but Mondeo front wheel bearings are big and a bit more costly than most…. I got caught out they way)…. You are half way towards the cost of a tells replacement with 25k less on the clock

    But the replacement could have any of these things fail at any time. If he replaces the bearings and turbo, they are then new, and he can depend on them lasting a long time*.

    * provided he fits them properly 🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    i do hate car shopping…. im a cynical bam.

    I rebuilt the whole front end of my “going to be written off”jeep rather than go car shopping …. how ever it had full 12 months ticket and tax – all new suspension and brakes before the crash – the 200 quid i paid in scrappy parts to put it back to right was significantly less hassle than finding another for the 500 quid they tried to offer me after excess…

    how ever flood damage rarely manifests its self at the time…. thats my issue with this job.

    Premier Icon geoffj
    Subscriber

    Molly, I said fix not bodge.
    But of course this is a problem car thread – I bow to your superiority and experience.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    molgrips – Member

    What people don’t realise is that a car is not one thing, it’s a collection of things. If one goes wrong, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s all unreliable and will go wrong again.

    But what you’re forgetting is that every car also contains a temperamental imp, which can be quick to anger and slow to forget. It remains to be seen whether my tribute has been accepted.

    neilnevill – Member

    Are you not making the classic banger owners mistake? Another turbo, oil line, wheel bearing (easy yes but Mondeo front wheel bearings are big and a bit more costly than most…. I got caught out they way)…. You are half way towards the cost of a tells replacement with 25k less on the clock….

    I don’t think so… Realistically, an equivalent replacement with less miles is £2500 and upwards- this one was exceptionally cheap because of its cosmetic crapness, any 2.2 at a comparable price will have a story. Other cars are available of course but that’s the like for like.

    I’m looking at about £300 of parts and consumables to (hopefully) fix the turbo. SKF wheel bearing is £130, though I might use a Conti one at £50, they’ve got a good rep from STDrivers. If I was paying labour things would look pretty different of course.

    Regardless of next steps, it’s going to be worth getting it back on the road I reckon.

    trail_rat – Member

    even id have given up by now northwind on account of the dunking – the real cost of that is yet to rear its head imo….

    What’s your prediction? Genuine question, I’m expecting it could well have an impact on hidden rust- sills and doors etc. But it’s done a good few thousand miles since the Great Flood and seems surprisingly unaffected, I was braced for electrical problems etc.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    But of course this is a problem car thread – I bow to your superiority and experience.

    Hehe 🙂

    chewkw
    Member

    Interesting damage to your turbo there … hmmm …

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