Range extender is £300

And it’s not 10k unless you go silly spec, the Carbon Comp is 6k, plus £300 for range extender. That’s in the same ball park as many similarly specced ebikes.

Most other manufacturers are working with existing motor manufacturers (Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha, Fazua, et al). Specialized collaborated with Brose (and still are) initially on their motor but the motor on the SL is an in-house development
The motor is not entirely their own work, it was developed in conjunction with Mahle
https://www.mahle.com/en/products-and-services/emobility/e-bike/

Just popped into my LBS and had a look at one out of curiosity. Good lord, it feels like a normal bike when you pick it up – it’s close to the weight of my old Spitfire, and it was the slightly less expensive one I was looking at, no carbon wheels etc.

Personally I like how the weight of my Levo makes it handle and how well it makes the suspension work but I’m not light and am fairly strong, so it suits my unsubtle style – but a lightweight yet gnarly e-hardtail would be awesome.

First e-bike I’ve thought that I might actually be interested in. Watched Marks vid and it looked pretty impressively, well, like a normal bike.

👍

No particular interest in (or objection to) eMTBs but I thought the videos were interesting. It does sound to me as though Specialized are basically acknowledging that, for a lot of people, a lighter bike is more fun to ride. So, in effect, they are saying that with any eMTB you are basically making life a bit easier on the way up at the cost of making the fun bits less fun. That seems a strange thing for a manufacturer to say.

That aside, I was struck by the power numbers. I’ve always taken ebikers at their word when they claim to work just as hard. Does a standard eMTB really give you a 400% boost? Even I can comfortably pump out 100W. Turning that into 500W sounds crazy. I can put our 300W (briefly) though, so a bike that turned my cruising 100W into my peak effort sounds a bit more reasonable.

“That aside, I was struck by the power numbers. I’ve always taken ebikers at their word when they claim to work just as hard. Does a standard eMTB really give you a 400% boost? Even I can comfortably pump out 100W. Turning that into 500W sounds crazy. I can put our 300W (briefly) though, so a bike that turned my cruising 100W into my peak effort sounds a bit more reasonable.”

The wording on that isn’t terribly clear – it talks about a Turbo Levo quadrupling your power so that’s adding 300% on top of your input. But according to EU law the maximum continuous power output of an ebike is only 250W.

So if you can put out 83.3W continuously the Levo in Turbo mode will add 250W to that, giving a total output of 333.3W from motor and rider. But if you want to go faster (and we all know that 300W power output is a good amount continuously but it’s not going to be shooting you uphill like someone has removed gravity), you have to pedal harder. You won’t get any more from the motor but you’ll still be adding power yourself.

I doubt the Strava power thing is very accurate but when I’ve been sprinting uphill across town on my Levo (and pedalling absolutely as hard as I can) the Strava power estimate is somewhere in the 600W region.

It’s hard to explain how similar yet how different eMTBs are. You really need to spend some time on one to get a feel for it – yes, you can pootle about with the bike doing most of the work but also you can choose to wreck your legs with the bike pushing hard too – or you can even just ride them unassisted. I change my approach constantly depending on what I feel like.

When I’m with people on normal bikes I often ride without power and then take delight in not being last despite the weight penalty! But commuting it’s full turbo all the way – sometimes relatively chilling, sometimes working hard. As soon as it’s flat-ish or downhill I’m over the 15.5mph cut-off anyway so then I’m doing all the work whether I want to or not.

they are saying that with any eMTB you are basically making life a bit easier on the way up at the cost of making the fun bits less fun. That seems a strange thing for a manufacturer to say.

Not really. The weight of an ebike has disadvantages and advantages. They are noticeably more stable than a normal bike but at the same time the weight takes some of poppy-ness and fun out of it. On bike park style trails i’d say its not really that noticeable, on more natural stuff where you typically might use a root to pop off the weight is more noticeable. It’s a different type of fun and a different way of riding a bike.

I’ve always taken ebikers at their word when they claim to work just as hard.

Go and do a day of continual runs at a bike park with uplift and come and tell us whether you’re tired. You’re legs don’t get the same hammering on the ups as you never have that really slow cadence and max power effort but the volume of runs and the fact you never need to stop at the top means you’re still knackered at the end of a ride.

The caveat to the above is that i use mine as a shuttle bike. I use trail mode 99% of the time and max out the number of downhill runs i can do in my allotted time. I’m fairly fit and strong and my upper body is toast at the end of a few hours constant riding on my levo. If you use one for bimbling around in the countryside then you’re right, the effort/workout will be nowhere near on an ebike.

Not really. The weight of an ebike has disadvantages and advantages.

I get that and I’ve never been that convinced by the importance of weight in an MTB. But in that case why put all this effort into marketing a lighter one? It does kind of sound as though they are accepting that a lot of people are put off eMTBs because of the weight. Marketing a £6K bike as being “almost as good as your regular trail bike on the descents” seems a bit strange. I think I’d have stuck with the “heavier bikes make the suspension work better” angle. But (thankfully) I’m not trying to make my living from selling mountain bikes.

As I said before, I’m not anti-ebike. I totally get that they are a good solution for some people. Not for me, but then I’m very much in the “bimbling around in the countryside” camp 🙂

[strong]Hob Nob[/strong] wrote:

.
I prefer the new Bosch motor to all the others I’ve now ridden though 🙂

Seems to be issues with the new Bosch

View this post on Instagram

#BoschPerformanceLineCX #Noisy #FailureOfOrigin #NoSolutions #aPartyGoingDown #TrekRail #TrekBicycles

A post shared by Mingui (@enduro_murciano_mtb) on Jan 23, 2020 at 5:23am PST

It does kind of sound as though they are accepting that a lot of people are put off eMTBs because of the weight.

Why does it? As it sounds to me like Spesh have swooped in with a great new e-bike option & other will manufacturers will follow thier lead, just like the any other (truely) ‘new and improved’ product. Did weight put ppl off bike backs in the 90’s? Were you left wondering why manufacturers were trying for lighter bike back then? Why are you so amazed about this fact when it comes to e-bikes? It’s progression and was always going to be the future of e-bikes, did ppl really think they would never improve or become lighter?
PS: I would like a lighter one as lifting the damned thing over my head is a pain. But I’m not giving up turbo for it! (which I use in moderation)

I don’t want to bang on about this too much. As I said I’m not anti-ebike.

Manufacturers in the 90s were pushing the idea that a lighter bike is better as a way to generate sales, which is fair enough. However, if you accept that a lighter bike is more fun on the descents than a heavier one then the implication is that all ebikes make the climb easier at the expense of making the descent less fun than it would be on your lighter normal bike. Whether any of those statements are true is a different matter. I suspect they are for some (but not all) people. It just surprised me a bit to find a manufacturer taking that line. I’d expect them to stick to the “easier going up, just as much fun coming back down” line. Once you start marketing a new ebike as being better because it’s lighter it seems that you are entering dangerous territory. But some people clearly like the idea of this one, so good luck to them.

The wording on that isn’t terribly clear – it talks about a Turbo Levo quadrupling your power so that’s adding 300% on top of your input. But according to EU law the maximum continuous power output of an ebike is only 250W

That makes more sense. If I remember correctly, Mark’s video talked about putting out 100W and the bike adding another 400W, which seemed crazy. But I guess he’s talking peak not continuous power.

Specialized are basically acknowledging that, for a lot of people, a lighter bike is more fun to ride. So, in effect, they are saying that with any eMTB you are basically making life a bit easier on the way up at the cost of making the fun bits less fun. That seems a strange thing for a manufacturer to say

I got told I’m incompetent as a cyclist for saying that last week!!

I got told I’m incompetent as a cyclist for saying that last week!!

There was a chap on here who used to decry anyone who suggested ebikes were a bit portly. Weight didn’t matter if you were as incredible as him…

Rode my Turbo Levo today and left it in trail all the ride. Usually ride it in Eco

How do I work out from the charts what its putting in and what I am

There was a chap on here who used to decry anyone who suggested ebikes were a bit portly. Weight didn’t matter if you were as incredible as him…

Maybe you should go out for a ride with him and see that he can actually ride…
I’m sure he’d show you round some of the Inners hand cut stuff if you were ever to go up there.
Back on topic.
Not sure a light Ebike is of that much interest to me. I just love the way the weight makes my Kenevo grip like shit to a blanket on off camber muddy, rooty trails. Also love how stable it is in the air.
If I want a lighter bike i’ll ride my G13

“Not sure a light Ebike is of that much interest to me. I just love the way the weight makes my Kenevo grip like shit to a blanket on off camber muddy, rooty trails. Also love how stable it is in the air.”

This is my thinking – apart from hardtails, a lightweight hardcore 29er e-hardtail would be awesome!

@Tracey Thanks for posting the graphs. Someone who understands these things better than me will no doubt correct my errors, but assuming “consumption” is what the bike supplies, it looks as though it puts out roughly three times as much as you. So you put out an average of 68W and it added 197W. The Wh figure presumably just multiplies that by the length of the ride in hours.

The max is interesting. For a start you put out 475W at one point. Strong! It could only add 190W to that. So presumably there is some limit to what it can put out or there is a bit of a lag so it can’t match the peak.

It looks as though you only burnt 86kcal on a 20km ride though. So no excuse not to ride again today 🙂

“It looks as though you only burnt 86kcal on a 20km ride though. So no excuse not to ride again today 🙂”

That’s only pedalling calories though!

That’s only pedalling calories though!

Eight times that just lifting it over gates.

Thanks, Think it may be because I deliberately left it in trail to try and understand it better. No gates or walls to lift over.
To be fair I rarely look at those charts. Usually just the map and the elevations.
Interesting in that we can run two identical side by side. One with 29er wheels 2.6 front 2.3 rear and one 650b+ 2.8 front and rear and the 650b+ feels a lot more planted. The 29er is quicker up hill who ever rides it but that’s because its red and red bikes are faster 😉

Definitely going to have a go on one of these once I am hopefully back riding in the summer, post injury recovery, fingers crossed.

My Orbea Wild FS, whilst a stunning bike, is arguably too much bike for the me who may return. The Spesh may be exactly what the doctor ordered 😀

Anyone wanna buy a once ridden Orbea, with only 12 miles on it ??

I find my ebike (Saracen with 170mm travel/2.8″ tyres full fat thing) both better on the ups (obviously) and on the downs – it steamrollers anything you want and jumps/pops off anything like nobody’s business – I’m hitting jumps and drops harder, faster, more often and with more confidence on that compared to my hardtail (titanium 29er slack trail bike style). I think it’s a combination of all the extra suspension, the weight, the huge downhill tyres, the motor helping get up to speed out of corners and also the fact that I’m not as puffed out when I start a downhill and due to a lot of weight training over the last 9 months I’m strong enough to handle the big bike.

I’m hitting PRs everywhere on the ups and downs and that’s in the winter mud – only got it in December.

I also ride differently on it. While my rides won’t be as long (as I’ll get round a course faster (say 2 hours instead of 3 hours), I actually work much harder on the ups – i.e. pedalling harder than on the normal bike. Before I would just cruise, taking my time – saving my energy for a long climb (say an hour), knowing I’d take a couple of breaks and there would be more climbs later so need to save energy for that. Now I just go for it, knowing if I burn out my legs, the motor will save my ass and I can keep going. So, instead of the more long distance/endurance, almost touring type effort I’d put in before now I’m hammering it. Fair enough, it’s only for 30 mins instead of 60, but I also come round to the stop of the descent without stopping, drop the saddle and then really go for it on the downs.

I actually feel I get a better workout with the eBike. It’s a bit shorter, but the intensity is much higher and more consistent and I take less breaks.

I’ve never connected that app to my Levo. My LBS always says I need to because you can do lots of stuff but I’m ironically anti-tech. I’ll try to remember this week for my commute (baby #3 has put MTBing on hold for a bit…)

Looking at the graphs again I wonder if the max values are just the max it can measure and produce. Easy enough to test if they are the same on every ride.

I guess the Wh figure is the most useful as it tells you the total work you did and you can easily compare with the estimates from Strava on a normal bike. Not in great detail of course as the strava number is just an estimate, but you can see if they are in the same ball park.

Not on strava however the latest Mission app links to it but won’t be bothered about downloading it.
At the end of the day we are all capable of knowing how much effort or not we have put into a ride no matter what bike its on.
A fun factor measuring app might tempt me 😁

@yourguitarhero

I actually feel I get a better workout with the eBike. It’s a bit shorter, but the intensity is much higher and more consistent and I take less breaks.

my experience too. plus I ride more because I can get a meaningful ride in 90 minutes out the door.

I got fitter and dropped a couple of kg when I got my e-bike, and also found a bunch of new local trails because I was exploring.