Tubeless – NO NO NO

On sunday while riding around cannock, my tubless wheel had a major failure. Banking on a corner quite fast, the tire seperated from the rim, causing air to come out. This meant i lost traction and the front slide out. I landed really hard on the back side of my hips, and it really bloody hurt : /

If i had tubes in i'm pretty sure i would have got around the corner no problems.

Live and learn. Hope this helps someone make their mind up about tubeless.

Could you let us know what rims, tires and pressure you where running?

crap tyres, rim too narrow, pressure too low, rider too fat, MTFU …etc. 😉

HTH

Incompetence rather than equipment failure – I reckon

Not sure of the exact pressure, but a little give under thumb pressure, about what i run on my other tube'd bike.

The rims are Mavic 819 tubeless rims
with Panaracer XC Fire tyres

I might be on the heavy side (92kg), but as mentioned, never had this issue running tube'd tyres.

Not a tubeless problem, obviously the way it has been setup!!!!!!!!!

TUBELESS IS AMAZING.

sounds like an issue like the tyre was'nt running parallel all the way round the tyre (wasnt seated evenly) or just running it too low

i had tubeless (proper ust – 819's) for 2 years and in those 2 years, do you know how many punctures/tyre rips/pinch flats i had???

you got it!

0!!

makes it even worse as the 819's are absolutly superb, i doubt you will find a better set of UST rims that work FULL TIME. Seriously my good man dont blame the rims, something setup wise was wrong 🙂

I'd take a puncture over the crash I had any day.

+1 for tubeless but as I found out yesterday a 4-5mm slash in the tread is not good 🙁

so would i, but id also assume automatically it was something i'd done wrong in the first place 🙂

819's dont just fail like that, there is a reason behind it, and its nothing to do with the rims 🙂

foxyrider – tubeless repair kit – CRC 3.99 – weldtite, just the jobby for that exact problem 🙂

its because you're using XC fires. they are too slack on the rim to be run tubeless.

If you had been using any other tyre like maxxis, bontrager, schwalbe etc etc it would have been fine (regardless of them being UST or not, which panaracer aren't)

Tubeless rocks!!!!
Only had one "burp" in 12 months now….

I've managed to do something similar with 819s and Nevegals but only when the pressure was too low (20psi – I'm about 70kg).

If they weren't a UST version of the Panaracers then it's your own fault – normal Panaracers are notorious for having slack beads and being unsuitable for running tubeless.

Last year I had a blow out at speed on my front tyre, tube came out and wrapped itself around my disc and the tyre rolled off – not had that happen since going tubeless, hope that helps you make up your mind :p

its because you're using XC fires. they are too slack on the rim to be run tubeless.

If you had been using any other tyre like maxxis, bontrager, schwalbe etc etc it would have been fine (regardless of them being UST or not, which panaracer aren't)

Are you sure about that? I've got UST Panaracer Fire XCs on my bike – linky.

Andy

They can burp. It's normally caused by running too low pressures. Most commonly with me it's caused by a slow puncture (not sealing usually 'cos the sealant needs topped up) which drops the pressure over a ride until it burps.

If you hit tubeless at the wrong angle they can fail horribly. They also pinch flat just the same if you have not got enough pressure (<35). Speaking from experience.

Bat1 – Member
Tubeless rocks!!!!
Only had one "burp" in 12 months now….

now what happens when that 1 burp is at a critical moment?

And yes the Panaracers were the tubeless kind : /

thought i'd share my experience with others, i'll not bother next time.

Sealant that I have used (Stans) seems useless as well for anything bigger than 1mm. It only works for holes not pinch flats or rock cuts.I had plenty of sealant and got a 2mm pinch flat that just would not seal. I like the tubeless set up but I think the main thing is run your tyres with the correct pressure be it tubeless or tubes.

Mine have burped in the past – sounds like bad timing on your part. I'm told Panaracer tyres aren't great tubeless. I'd guess the slow puncture/dropping pressure theory?

thought i'd share my experience with others, i'll not bother next time.

Don't be put off by seemingly aggressive replies – some folk here are a bit defensive. Hope you're OK. Sounds like you've lost confidence in the tubeless thing – biggest advantage is on a rear tyre though, which won't ambush you in the same way.

You might want to actually state in your first post that you WERE using UST rims and tyres, that way people won't jump to conclusions (which they love to on here!).

You just had too low pressure for your weight, thata all. A proper UST set-up is great IMO.

I switched from 819s to Stans rims partly because of this issue. I found that a combination of smaller burps during a ride could lower the pressure of my front tyre to the point that a hard corner or off camber landing would cause a big loss of air, which on 2 occasions ended up in crashes when the tyre folded.

Keep an eye on your pressures or switch to a Stans rim, they are far superior for tubeless setups!

I always trot this out – but I did the Mega last year with the rear 719 ghetto tubeless – not a problem all week and I weigh 16.5 stone ish.

I also have an 819 and the Flows I use now are better imo – non-tubeless tyres went up easily with no rim strip and just a track pump.

Don't let the clique of STW get to you, there's a lot of people who have the confidence simply because they haven't had a failure yet themselves!

It does sound like the pressure was a little too low though. If you don't know the numbers then you may have been getting away with it for a while!

Admittedly, this might not be a noticeable problem with tubes tyres, but at the sort of pressure where you get burping, you would be getting frequent pinch flats anyway, so maybe the pressure was lower than you thought. Slow unsealed puncture? Running sealant?

Were the tyres Fire XC UST? How old, and have the bead stretched significantly since you first installed them?

I'd second the comments about tubeless being really good but I'd also second the comments about not letting the STW Tubeless Mafia get to you.

Probably those people that have never had a problem are either a)not that heavy, b) not that fast, c)still running super high pressures or d) a combination of all three.

I've run tubeless for almost four years now and I'd say that I've had about 80% success.

The problems I've encountered are like yours; cornering fast as a heavy rider on hardpack surfaces can cause tyres to burp and they can subsequently roll off the rim or pinch flat.

Some rime/tyre combos are materially better than others. I find Flow rims, stans rim strips and Maxxis wire beaded tyres to be the best; more or less 100% reliable.

Running kevlar beaded tyres makes the tyre less sturdy in hard cornering and more likely to come off is you get landing squint etc.

Oh no ! I best go and get some tubes fitted to my car,van,and pickup ,as well as my 3 mtb's immediately then,I wish some one would of told me earlier how cr@p this new fangled 'tubeless malarkey' is……. 😉

did a lap of kirroughtree on sat with 9psi up front …. just get some mans tires – panaracer are shite (coming from a fan of fire mud pro 1.8s – all i use in winter) they are still shite the only tire ive ever punctured with a stick !

Never had any issue with UST in 7 years. Just get bored waiting around for people to replace or repair tubes.

I ripped my first tyre yesterday, it went down rather rapidly, it would have done so if it'd had a tube in it. I would have also had more punctures in the intervening period, wouldn't have been able to run such low pressures, and my wheels would have weighed more.

For me, tubeless is awesome.

Hope this helps someone make their mind up about tubeless.

Yep, I''m now going to ditch the tubeless I've been using for the last 4 years. After ZERO "burps" and about 4 punctures I've had ENOUGH 😆

Cheers Dizy – I repaired with with a big inner tube patch 🙂

Xckeith don't be a nob. He didn't say you should do that at all. And anyway when did you last have to fit car tyres yourself and fill them with latex solution… 🙄

+xckeith

I had the same thought.

T/L technology works, and works well – but like all things it needs to be maintained – whether this is tyre pressure, sealant level and/or tyre condition.

A front wheel puncture with a tube will have you off far easier than a T/S front wheel puncture, as the tube is more likely to lose air instantly,

Tubeless is getting to be a bit of a religious issue.

So yeah, it's your fault, you're a class A windowlicker, you must have put it all together wrong, and it's people like you that give tubeless a bad name.

And of course, tubeless is rubbish, I don't see why anyone would use it, the consequences of failure are too grim to think about.

😕

Just got back from a week in Spain and my first attempt at tubeless.
I am using DT Swiss 420SL rims and on the front a Spesh Purgatory 2.2 tyre.

I had the issue that the OP mentions on two occasions and put it down to probably a combination of set-up/lack of experience with tubeless and perhaps tyres that aren't ideal.

The first incident was riding across some angled rock on a fairly simple trail that I'd ridden without issues several times before. One second all was well and the next, the bike just slid out from under me and before I knew it I lying on the ground with a very sore thigh. Once i picked myself up it became clear that my front tyre was almost flat and I assume the camber of the rock had caused the tyre to separate from the rim.

The second was on the road cycling through Granada – busy roundabout and a bloke cuts me up. I braked hard and the front tyre just let go and I went down again. Once I got going again, the front tyre was almost flat and required pumping up as soon as I was clear of the roundabout.

The front tyre is very loose on the rim, which I guess doesn't help.

On the plus side, last years 2+ punctures per day turned into zero punctures through the course of the week and it was a lot more thorny & overgrown than when we normally go in May.
I did pick up several thorns and had to inflate the tyres back up to pressure every now & again, but it was 10x better than previous years frustrations…..

On sunday while riding around cannock, my tubed wheel had a major failure. Banking on a corner quite fast, the tube got a snakebite and deflated really quickly. This meant i lost traction and the front slide out. I landed really hard on the back side of my hips, and it really bloody hurt : /

If i had tubeless in i'm pretty sure i would have got around the corner no problems.

Live and learn. Hope this helps someone make their mind up about tubeless.

Me again Sunday: Hit the sidewall on a huge rock going down a fast off road descent (huge bang) I thought Oh dear, continuted thinking the worst and I'd have to stop but No! slight sractch in the rim and scuffed wall but with a tube I'd have gone down. Now I know you can get external tyre repair kits makes it even sweeter 🙂

Maxray,I didn't say he did say that.just making a point.Technology moves on,when bicycling started,they used solid tyres,don't s'pose they got many punctures either.
each to their own,try something,give it a fair crack,if you don't like it,fine,don't do it.
for what it's worth,I've been tubeless for years,I like to run 20psi front and rear(wtb lt 2.55/29),I need all the grip/traction/comfort I can get,I get less punctures,have 'burped at least twice in 4 or 5 years,had maybe two punctures that didn't self seal,ripped a gash in the main tread area of a maxxis swamp thing caused by a booby trapped puddle filled with broken bottles !,but I doubt a tube would of helped with that one.and yes,I always carry a tube,a few chain links,a cleat screw,a multi tool,and a pump,and have used all of them either for myself or to help others.

I'm possibly being a bit of a spaz here but could someone explain how on earth is it possible to get a pinch flat running tubeless?? What exactly are you pinching?