Tubeless – I'm not sure I understand….

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  • Tubeless – I'm not sure I understand….
  • skeetsgb
    Member

    I tried tubeless for a few weeks. I thought it was going ok and then I had a burp going over a tiny innocuous roller at Gawton and this happened to the rear.

    just out of curiosity, were the rims pikey ?

    for me, one of the best things i changed on the bike going tubeless. never had a problem except one tyre rip on a nobby nic, never burped even after some tasty drops. i do prefer the wider rim though which i think helps.

    antares
    Member

    9×5 mins = 40mins

    😕

    eightyeight
    Member

    I’m obviously an idiot, but I don’t understand tubeless tires. Say if you’re running mountain kings 2.2 for your normal riding, and then go on an uplift day, or are riding something a bit tasty in the wet and want to run something, say for example, a Minon 2.4 / High roller, how simple is it to change them over?

    Do you need separate wheel sets for different tires (this would obviously be ridiculous, so I’m sure isn’t right). Do you have to faff about with fluid all the time?

    I’m fed up of getting pinches to looking to make the move.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Subscriber

    skeetsgb – Member
    I tried tubeless for a few weeks. I thought it was going ok and then I had a burp going over a tiny innocuous roller at Gawton and this happened to the rear.
    just out of curiosity, were the rims pikey ?

    Stans flow-ex with rim strips. Ardent EXO tyres.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    When I think about punctures… I’ve been almost entirely tubeless, with proper tubeless rims, for about 3 years (wasted some time fannying around with ghetto before that, never again). In that time, I reckon I’ve had about 10 proper punctures offroad. Half of those were on a ****ing awful pair of Nobby Nic Evos that just couldn’t do the job, they went in the bin. One of them, I blew a tyre off the rim, on account of running a 2.5 Nevegal on a Stans olympic at about 5psi on my rigid bike. Worked well most of the time! And another was just a standard flat. Might be some more of those that I’ve forgotten. Plus assorted “oh tyre has gone soft” which caused minor pumping faff.

    But the other 3, were tubes. And considering that maybe 1% of all my riding these days is on tubes, it’s a bit telling that 30% of all the flats were on tubes.

    M6TTF
    Member

    id never return to tubes – used to pinch flat nearly every ride, despite running high pressures. switched to tubeless, and a couple of flats in 3 years. one was a side wall rip, the other i just pumped up and carried on.

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
    Subscriber

    I don’t know, maybe I’m alone on this.

    you’re not alone

    I’m convinced tubeless is an answer to a problem that never existed.

    sounds about right

    there’s never ever been any threads on here asking about specific tyre-rim combos, how to seat them, nor any about ghetto compressors, nor those asking how many days before they stop weeping jiz. 😉

    2 flats, 6000km, one fo which makes no sense whatsoever (wheeling bike across some stones from Super Morzine gondola to Zore chair lift and got a 1inch split on the *inside* of the tube.) The other was thru a nobble on a highroller.

    My total outlay on tubes since 2008 might just about come to 25% of the cost of 1 Stan’s jiz conversion kit.

    I might consider UST tyres on UST rims, but that’s not specifically to say “I run tubeless”, but just a side effect of having such a compatible set of stuff.

    But then here in Germany, we have special stones on the single tracks, and mountains are made of special rock that caresses Schwalbe tyres and makes sure they don’t puncture.

    Yetiman
    Member

    Definitely a thumbs up for me. It’s really scary how quickly time flies as it’ll be 10 years in August since I first tried tubeless with a pair of Mavic 823’s bought just before an Alps holiday in 2004. I ran a 2.5 High Roller out back, and a soft Schwalbe Al-Mighty up front, and I spent a happy week hitting all the DH trails on my Yeti ASX without a single puncture, despite running slightly lower pressures than usual. I’ve had so few punctures during the past 10 years I’m sure if I think hard enough I can recall each of them.
    For me tubeless has dramatically reduced pinch flats, which were previously a common occurrence unless tyres were run stupidly hard, while allowing me to eek out grip with slightly lower tyre pressures. Changing tyres these days is no more of a faff than fixing or replacing tubes. You do have to hone your tyre changing skills though, which only comes from having the odd PITA experience 🙂

    Premier Icon mcnultycop
    Subscriber

    Rather than swapping tyres why not just buy a new bike?

    Premier Icon Clobber
    Subscriber

    9×5 mins = 40mins 😕

    If you look further up he said it actually took him 4mins 26.6secs to change a tube until he edited it…

    hooli
    Member

    I know a lot of people despise them but I use Slime tubes as I get a lot of punctures from riding near me, mostly from hawthawn hedges being cut. When I change my tyres I always replace the tube too as there are normally 6 or 7 thorns in each tube, none of which I have noticed as the slime sealed them without even a drop in pressure.

    Costs about £8 for a tube and adds a bit of weight but that’s the least of my problems.

    I went tubeless not long after they first came out, it was crap, went back a few years later and it’s been great.

    Given how cheep a dose of fluid is relative to tubes you could pour it away and change tyres quicker than with tubes. Or spend 30 seconds scooping 90% of it out and re-using it.

    Had tubes in for one ride in the last couple of years (new bike, took it straight out from the shop), got 2 punctures, tubelessed those tyres that evening.

    ‘Ghetto’ tubeless is one of those upgrades that’s so cheep, easy to do and so effective I do wonder why some people don’t bother. It’s like hobbling yourself by removing the pedals as pedal bearing maintenance is a faff or you dont want to replace SPD cleats.

    Premier Icon andytherocketeer
    Subscriber

    Given how cheep a dose of fluid is relative to tubes you could pour it away and change tyres quicker than with tubes

    €70 for a tubeless conversion kit 😯
    or €7 for 2 tubes.
    I don’t call that “cheep”

    ‘Ghetto’ tubeless is one of those upgrades that’s so cheep, easy to do and so effective I do wonder why some people don’t bother.

    yeah people are on here all the time trying to get tyres with tube to seat and seal, and spending hours over it. then trying agin 3 days later when they’ve gashed together a ghetto compressor from a coke bottle and pipes 😉

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I’m a tubeless fan but I’ll not do ghetto again, it just never worked well for me even though others say the exact same methods have worked. I’m happy using non-tubeless tyres but the rims make a big difference imo.

    Premier Icon amedias
    Subscriber

    Then you’ve got the ability to run lower pressures without with less chance of pinch flatting
    Cos when you do it’s a whole lot worse having put holes in the tyre sidewall rather than just the tube.

    Because your tubes completely protect your tyres… don’t they?

    No, but what I mean is, when you pinch puncture tubeless it’s worse because then in 99% of cases the tyre becomes impossible to run tubeless again because the cuts are right on the bead line of the sidewall which means they don’t seal and are a bugger to patch.

    It’s surprising how much the tube does help to protect the tyre sidewall, I’ve pinch punctured about half a dozen tubeless tyres over the years, but can only remember a couple of times when i’ve put pinch pucture holes in the sidewall of non-tubless tyres when I’ve pinch flatted the tube.

    I often hear people portraying tubeless as an end to pinch punctures while simultaneously being able to run lower pressures, that has not been my experience, I’ve been running tubless using UST, TR and normal tyres in varies setups for almost a decade and I’m definitely pro-tubeless but it’s a not a magic fix for everything, you can run lower pressures, sometimes (a lot fo the time in fact), but there’s still the risk of pinch flats and when it happens its a lot more annoying, and you can’t go super low if you’re into hard riding without risking burps, but it all depends on how and where you ride.

    Over the years, I’ve pretty much settled on running the same pressures tubed and tubeless but just getting better grip and comfort and reduced punctures on the tubless ones.

    Is there something in particular about how/where you ride that means you either do/don’t get loads of punctures thus making tubeless worthwhile? I ride local natural stuff – Caesar’s Camp/Tunnel Hill/ranges/Surrey Hills – plus the usual trail centres in Wales, Swinley, and have had two punctures in the last two years. Never thought I run the tyres particularly hard, and I weigh 190lbs so not exactly a featherweight either.

    Genuinely wondering why some people puncture so much and others don’t? I’ve thought about tubeless but honestly can’t see why it would be an advantage to me.

    Premier Icon amedias
    Subscriber

    Genuinely wondering why some people puncture so much and others don’t? I’ve thought about tubeless but honestly can’t see why it would be an advantage to me.

    Because the variety of riding and riders is massive. It’s not just about punctures, tubeless tends to offer more grip and more comfort as well, would that not be an advantage to you?

    where you ride – maybe, if your local patch is really rocky or littered with hawthorns then yes, but to be honest tubeless positives mean it’s worthwhile anywhere.

    how you ride – definitely, if your thing is sweeping flowy woodland singletrack then pinch punctures are probably the least of your worries, where as if you’re a flinty, pointy rock gully DH rider then its a different game altogether.

    Obviously for most of us the reality is a mixture of varied terrain but some people are a lot harder on their bike and tyres than others and it’s not just about rider weight, I know some really lightweight guys who absolutely pummel their bikes, equally I know some really big heavy guys who can ride with the finesse of a dainty woodland fairy.

    jimification
    Member

    I found tubeless a right faff at first but you get used to all the tricks after a while and it gets a lot easier to set up. The Stans Injector thing is really good if you want to reuse the gunk when swapping tyres, almost zero wastage.

    The problem round our way is thorns which kill tubes and flints which cut tyres which tubeless gunk won’t heal. Got some Snakeskin RoRo’s now though, so we’ll see if those help.

    I always thought there was only a *slight* difference in ride quality between tubes / tubeless. However, I recently fixed a front wheel flat half way down a steady bumpy hill and was quite surprised with a direct comparison on how much worse the small bump absorbtion is with a tube.

    Premier Icon jairaj
    Subscriber

    My 2p for what its worth,

    tubeless is great if you get regular punctures, whether from thorns or pinch flats or some other way? If you don’t get regular punctures then there is very little point and I wouldn’t try and force tubeless onto those people.

    If you do decide to move to tubeless, it only makes sense if your rims and tyres are designed to be run as such. The ghetto or non ghetto conversion strips can be very hit and miss (just look at all the tubeless help threads in the past). A UST or Stans rim or similar that is actually designed to be run tubeless is the only way to go.

    Using a proper tubeless rim and tyres means there is very little faff compared to fitted a normal tyre. My tubeless tyres are no harder to change than normal ones. Where I would take a few seconds to insert a tube, I now take a few seconds to insert some sealant solution.

    The tyres usually inflate without too much bother too. A bit of quick pumping for a few secs to initially get the bead onto the hook and then its fine. Or if you use a high volume pump like my friends pump then just pump as normal.

    If I had to regularly huff and puff and use all kinds of compressors etc I wouldn’t bother with tubeless either.

    mindmap3
    Member

    I know some really big heavy guys who can ride with the finesse of a dainty woodland fairy.

    Isn’t that just STW mincecore riding 😆

    I went tubeless last Jan and love it. I had no issues getting it set up (Havoc UST wheels with Schawble TR HD’s). In fact I was surprised at the lack of swearing and tantrums. I wouldn’t go back now but I;m not really a seriel tyre changer; I run HD’s most of the time and stick on some dual ply Maxxis tyres for uplift days.

    I’ve never really suffered too badly with punctures – even on my DH bike I’d use XC tubes and still ran lowish pressures. I do think that tubeless feels a bit better though and id saved a bit of weight for me.

    jonnouk
    Member

    Changing tyres for where you ride is taking riding pushbikes too seriously.

    People question me for riding Kenda Small block 8s through sloppy winters but even I’m not daft enough to use them for descending at Triscombe or FOD.

    I don’t ride Small blocks in winter because i’m tubeless but because i’m a cheapskate, also because i’ve had 2 punctures in the last 5yrs, (both were caused by glass on pavements) i don’t feel the need to switch.

    €70 for a tubeless conversion kit
    or €7 for 2 tubes.
    I don’t call that “cheep”

    £1.99 for a roll of electrical tape, valve from an old tube.

    £1 for a dose of stans fluid (buy it by the quart it costs about the same as 6 tubes and fills 20 tyres)

    yeah people are on here all the time trying to get tyres with tube to seat and seal, and spending hours over it. then trying agin 3 days later when they’ve gashed together a ghetto compressor from a coke bottle and pipes

    Thats because they’re not doing it right, a whole roll of electrical tape only weighs about 30g, just keep adding tape untill it. All of my wheels will go up with a mini pump if needs be.

    The only tyres I can’t seat are wire bead maxxis dual ply 2.5’s. They just wont adopt the same shape as the rim.

    craighill
    Member

    My Hans dampf seat on stans flow ex with track pump, so easy I would do it once a week

    Rob Hilton
    Member

    when you pinch puncture tubeless it’s worse because then in 99% of cases the tyre becomes impossible to run tubeless again because the cuts are right on the bead line of the sidewall which means they don’t seal and are a bugger to patch

    Sticky worms

    Premier Icon garage-dweller
    Subscriber

    Patch in side for pinches seems to work.

    As for how difficult it is to change tyres, I swapped a UST tyre in a car park in barely 5 minutes with nowt but a track pump and a bit more slime and managed to recycle most of the old goop. OK it was a Tu eless ready tyre and UST rim, which is definitely easier but hardly the compressor powered disaster others are making it out to be.

    Why tubeless? It makes a big reduction in thorn and spikey stuff punctures meaning less stoppage time and it is more tolerant of fat knacker with low pressures.

    Premier Icon curiousyellow
    Subscriber

    Hans dampf seat on stans flow ex with track pump

    My experience too, but I’d not go that far.

    I’m a light person, but I used to get flats all the time. Slow punctures, trail side ones, annoying ones picked up while descending, pinch flats, you name it, I’ve had it. Low lights include turning up for a ride with one tube, finding a slow puncture, repairing it, and puncturing mid-ride and having to turn back.

    Since I went tubeless I’ve had one incident where the tyre started pissing sealant. Would have probably sealed, but guide thought it best to put a tube in. It reseated fine once we were back at base. Same tyre is still running on the bike with no problems. This is in over 2 years of using tubeless.

    Oh, and never having to fix the missus’ punctures is an added bonus.

    Premier Icon vincienup
    Subscriber

    I think it’s a ‘ymmv’ thing.

    I like the feel of my tubelessed tyres but have had attempts with rims that didn’t want to know – older deeper section rims like 321’s. I’ve heard the ‘many rounds of tape’ but never tried it.

    I think the biggest problem is the amount of misinformation. People assume that their experience is universal and gift it to all via the internet and then you end up with some poor kid struggling with unsuitable rims, a loose winding of stans yellow and a valve jammed through it wondering why it won’t work and making a mess cos they followed instructions telling them to put the goop in first then mount the tyre. If you’re not running UST and compatible beads then there’s potential for issues regardless if they happen or not. Bear in mind some tyre/rim combos can be challenging to mount in the first place!

    Fwiw, I still have my Asda Smartprice cola bottle bodge and often use it, simply because now I have it, it’s easy to use.

    There are people I’d never advise to try tubeless just like there are people I’d never recommend a bunch of MTB things to. They’re way more than fashion accessories though.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    amedias – Member

    No, but what I mean is, when you pinch puncture tubeless it’s worse because then in 99% of cases the tyre becomes impossible to run tubeless again because the cuts are right on the bead line of the sidewall which means they don’t seal and are a bugger to patch.

    Standard patch on the inside? I’ve only done a couple (generally on used tyres) and it’s always worked perfectly.

    I think the real problem with pinches and tubeless is that normally, if you have tubes, you pinch and you go “bugger” and you add more air next time. But with tubeless, you bang the rim and get away with it and keep going til you have a rim that looks like a saw blade 😆

    Premier Icon breadcrumb
    Subscriber

    I used to be one of those riders that would pinch puncture nearly every ride, so tubeless made perfect sense to me.

    My Unit came with tubeless ready rims, my Pitch is still on its standard DT Swiss rims with Superstar tape no issues.

    Of course I still carry a tube, as do folk that use tubes.

    I’d not go back to tubes, the time saved it patching them up every week is worth it, never mind uninterrupted flow on the trails with not having to swap tubes.

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