Tubeless – I'm not sure I understand….

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  • Tubeless – I'm not sure I understand….
  • Premier Icon brassneck
    Subscriber

    In your situation I’d stick with heavy duty tubes and a bit higher pressure. It’s possible to change tyres with the right tyres and a decent track pump I suppose (or a compressor if you have a nice day van) but it’s not something I look forward too .. I swap in March and November, between summer and winter tyres, thats all.

    Premier Icon Pik n Mix
    Subscriber

    Let’s be fair though it’s not a difficult task to swap between tyres. If you have the fluid already it’s not really an issue, 20 min job if that.

    eightyeight
    Member

    Thanks Brassneck. I’ll pass in that case.

    If you change tyres “a lot” it probably isnt worth the hassle depending on your tyre/rim combo…

    but if you have propper UST rims and tyres they are easy to go up with a normal track pump, but youll need new fluid every time.

    Premier Icon Clobber
    Subscriber

    Whooaaa up there! It is a bit more of a faff, but I think the benefits way out weigh the faff.

    I realise this everytime I change tyres and pull thorns (9 last time) out that I didn’t even know were there.

    Then you’ve got the ability to run lower pressures without pinch flatting etc… etc…

    Edit: you don’t need new fluid everytime, just scrape out with the supplied stans scoop and put in a jamjar until needed

    Van Halen
    Member

    ease of swapping depends totally on the tyre and rim combo and the kit you have.

    if you have a compressor and teh right rims etc 20mins yes, if you have not then it could be anything from 20 mins to 2hrs swearing and failure

    plyphon
    Member

    I’m convinced tubeless is an answer to a problem that never existed.

    Okay, okay – I concede if you’re at world class level/racing competitively maybe it might shave off half a second off your time.

    But for anyone else? Not convinced.

    Makes me laugh, people on here go on about the hilarity of 650B “making the trail come alive”, then go spend 20 minutes trying to change a tyre only to bring a tube with them in case it burps/pops/flat anyway – why? Because it makes the trail come alive.

    I don’t know, maybe I’m alone on this.

    Premier Icon Clobber
    Subscriber

    Depends if you like punctures plyphon

    munrobiker
    Member

    Having no tubes is far better than having tyres that are ever so slightly wrong for the situation. Changing tyres for where you ride is taking riding pushbikes too seriously.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    For me tubeless isn’t about going fast it’s about not getting punctures.

    Van Halen
    Member

    tubeless definately feels better to ride on. i`m a luddite and i notice.

    it is a right pain in the arse tho.

    i’ve managed to hole/cut every tubless tyre i’ve run sufficiently to need to put a tube in mid ride at some point. then i`m even more annoyed than a if i get a regular puncture and way more messy

    plyphon
    Member

    Depends if you like punctures plyphon

    hate em. but equally had two in 4 years.

    edit: yeah, I concede on the punctures front too. I can understand that if you ride somewhere with a lot of thorns etc.

    But again surely just riding a heavier duty tyre could solve this? I got a few flats on some lightweight Spesh XC tyres, so stuck some bigger, heavier duty “trail” type tyres and that cured that.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    tubeless is a faff compared to tubes no question but it ranges from slightly more tricky to major PITA depending on setup and tools (a good compressor negates almost every problem)

    How often you flat/change your tyres dictates whether the faff is worthwhile.

    I believe you can scoop/syringe the sealant out swap tyres and reuse old sealant (plus add a bit more) and with a compressor or a good tubeless setup it should be a fairly quick job but I just leave the same tyres on year round

    edit UST system is a pretty quick change, about the same as tubes with a tight fitting tyre, but you obviously you don’t get thorn puncture resistance unless you add sealant aswell

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    It only takes me a few minutes to swap a tyre, but I have proper tubeless rims, and a compressor. I wouldn’t be so keen without the compressor and I wouldn’t swap at all if I was using a tubeless bodge.

    The sealant’s reusable, if I’m changing for just a few days I’ll just hang the tyre up with sealant in it, if it’s longer I’ll sook most of it out with a squeezy bottle and reuse it in the new tyre, and rinse out the old one- wastes a little sealant, but tidier and stops it hardening in the tyre.

    Yes tubeless is more of a faff. But, it’s faff on your terms, in my case in the garage with the radio on- whereas tubes are less faff to fit, but provide gifts of future faff at inconvenient times when you’re up a mountain in the rain, or in the middle of a race.

    eightyeight
    Member

    Changing tyres for where you ride is taking riding pushbikes too seriously

    Is it? I mean I ride pretty tame trail centres (Degla, Gisburn) for the post part. But I tend to change tyres if its slopping wet and I’m at Inners. Am I taking myself too seriously?

    For me tubeless isn’t about going fast it’s about not getting punctures

    That’s what it would be about for me. Though I should balance that with the fact it takes about 5 mins to repair a puncture / change a tube.

    eightyeight
    Member

    Ah, the Gift of Future Faff. That’s what the 4th Wiseman brought baby Jesus wasn’t it?

    plyphon
    Member

    Changing tyres for where you ride is taking riding pushbikes too seriously

    I don’t mean to be a jerk, honestly:

    buy oh the irony.

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    Its really not a faff if you do it right. UST tyres on UST rims are not any harder to fit than a “normal” tyre and tube combination.

    When I first started using tubeless it was like “ZOMG!!! there’s no tube in it WOW!” Now I wonder why anyone bothers with tubes in mountain bike tyres.

    Premier Icon sheeps
    Subscriber

    daft question (because I’m thinking about tubeless for my new wheels (ZTR Crest rims) – do you need tubeless specific tyres – or can any tyres be made to work with the right kit?

    Premier Icon brassneck
    Subscriber

    It only takes me a few minutes to swap a tyre, but I have proper tubeless rims, and a compressor. I wouldn’t be so keen without the compressor and I wouldn’t swap at all if I was using a tubeless bodge.

    Exactly. It’s not too bad with a track pump with UST rims and new tyres, but pop them on and off a few times and the swearing to inflation ratio goes up.

    It’s great, and I wouldn’t be without tubeless (lots of flint and thorns) myself, but it’s not for someone who wants to swap tyres on an uplift day for example, it’d just waste good riding time.

    Most XC racers I know run two sets of wheels, set up with bald and slightly less bald tyres to cover the season and save faff.

    warpcow
    Member

    Makes me laugh, people on here go on about the hilarity of 650B “making the trail come alive”, then go spend 20 minutes trying to change a tyre tubeless being a solution in search of a problem only to bring a tube with them in case it burps/pops/flat anyway – why? Because it makes the trail come alive. they insist on repeating the same mistake over and over again

    FTFY 😉 I ride some trails where you can fix one flat and have another two in the next 100m (thorns). Tubeless has completely done away with this. The only flat I’ve had in a few years now shredded the tyre, which would have meant the same for a tube anyway. YMMV though.

    Swapping tyres takes 15-20mins with a shonky trackpump.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    When I moved to tubeless I wasn’t sure I understood either. I had more faff with punctures that weren’t sealing than when I used tubes. I was splitting sidewalls, tearing off nobbles and basically wasting far more of my precious riding time trying to keep air in my tyres than I ever did when I used tubes. When I changed to some different tyres things improved, but unless you ride in a style/locations where punctures are common I’m still unconvinced there’s a huge benefit to going tubeless. Yes, I gather running lower pressure gives you better grip, but not to the extent where I’ve been bowled over by the improvement.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    How does tubeless cause knobbles to come off 😕

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Subscriber

    if you have a compressor and teh right rims etc 20mins yes, if you have not then it could be anything from 20 mins to 2hrs swearing and failure

    I usually find with UST tyre that the first time can be a nightmare, but the second is a lot easier – the bead has stretched a bit, and it seats a lot better. Not sure what happens if you’re regularly taking them on and off, though.

    Premier Icon BigDummy
    Subscriber

    I don’t change tyres very often, but if the sealant is reasonably fresh it can be re-used. I have a Stan’s Injector, which does an excellent job of sucking the sealant up ready to put into the next tyre.

    Whenever I do change tyres, I am amazed by the number of thorns in them, surrounded by blobs of air-retaining latex gloop.

    Keeping a big bottle of sealant in the garage so you remember to top up tyres in between changes occasionally is worthwhile.

    I think tubeless is the least useful of recent innovations, but with a bit of practice I consider it somewhat useful.

    🙂

    Premier Icon amedias
    Subscriber

    Then you’ve got the ability to run lower pressures without with less chance of pinch flatting

    Cos when you do it’s a whole lot worse having put holes in the tyre sidewall rather than just the tube.

    Premier Icon cookeaa
    Subscriber

    TBH I prefer to fit a set of tyres that suit the bikes main intended use, and not change them unless I really need to…

    It’s not too hard to change a UST tyre, but there’s some faffing obviously, not that tubed tyres are always a smooth operation to change but if I were a serial tyre changer, I’d stick to Tubes.

    Bagstard
    Member

    Is two sets of wheels ridiculous? I have DH wheels with dual ply tacky tyres and a road cassette with a nice short chain and some much lighter wheels with a long range cassette and longer chain. Takes about ten minutes to change over if that.

    Premier Icon Clobber
    Subscriber

    That’s what it would be about for me. Though I should balance that with the fact it takes about 5 mins to repair a puncture / change a tube.

    So I had 9 thorns in my tyre last time, 9×5 mins = 40mins, then you have to fix your tubes etc.

    Plus as someone pointed out earlier, the faff is done in the warm environment of the garage/shed prior to riding, not on the trail in the rain with your mates waiting for you.

    Premier Icon Clobber
    Subscriber

    Then you’ve got the ability to run lower pressures without with less chance of pinch flatting
    Cos when you do it’s a whole lot worse having put holes in the tyre sidewall rather than just the tube.

    Because your tubes completely protect your tyres… don’t they?

    plus one
    Member

    OP it’s a tyre without a tube 😉

    Premier Icon tenfoot
    Subscriber

    I have recently purchased arch rims, and reckon I will go down the tubeless route later in the year.

    For the last couple of years I have been using slime tubes, which seem to deal very nicely with the large amount of hawthorn thorns around where I ride. They seem a good compromise to me.

    Premier Icon stilltortoise
    Subscriber

    How does tubeless cause knobbles to come off

    I wasn’t (intentionally) suggesting it does, but when a knobble tears off and leaves a hole in your tyre for air to come out, it’s a bit bloomin’ frustrating that the sealant doesn’t do its one simple job of sealing.

    Premier Icon D0NK
    Subscriber

    I’m convinced tubeless is an answer to a problem that never existed.

    [quote]hate em. but equally had two in 4 years.[/quote]jammy bastard! I used to get em pretty much every ride (with DH tubes and >40psi too)
    5 in 1 ride was somewhat annoying. The dual ply setup I have on my big bike has never flatted, just top up sealant once a year, definitely worth the weight* and slight faff for me, a mate almost never flats so he hasn’t bothered with tubeless, quite rightly.

    *also run lighter setups on other bikes, a lot more reliable than tubes were for me but not bulletproof.

    Premier Icon Yak
    Subscriber

    Changing to tubeless stopped my tyre changing habit and made me just get out and ride and not precede every ride with faff.

    traildog
    Member

    I don’t find tubeless anymore of a faff than tubes. Less in fact, as you are not always fixing them. Plus you get a far better ride, what’s not to like.

    Anyway, constantly swapping tyres depending on where you ride is really taking things a bit over serious IMHO. If you occasionally want a heavy duty tyre on then you swap and it’s not really a faff, just a bit messy but not too bad. If you often swap then you probably better off with a new set of wheels anyway. Heavy duty and light wheels with matching tyres make more sense then just putting heavy duty tyres on light wheels, so I don’t know why you suggest it’s ridiculous.

    Premier Icon kayak23
    Subscriber

    Do you need separate wheel sets for different tires (this would obviously be ridiculous,

    Need? No. Is it desirable? Yes.

    I have a set of heavy duty wheels, cheaper ones that I shove on for uplift days with dual-ply tyres etc. No way I’m taking my expensiverer ones on an uplift day(BPW excluded)

    I tried tubeless for a few weeks. I thought it was going ok and then I had a burp going over a tiny innocuous roller at Gawton and this happened to the rear.

    I stuck a tube in it but carried on with the front one.
    One day I was rattling down a descent at Afan when the front burped too and sent me flying into the bushes and rolling along on my nice Flow rim momentarily…
    I’ve given up after that. At least when tubes go it doesn’t tend to be quite so instantly and dramatically… 😯

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Gotcha, cheers stilltortoise

    Premier Icon BoardinBob
    Subscriber

    High roller, how simple is it to change them over?

    Took a swampthing off and put a smorgasbord on with a track pump in under 10 minutes a couple of nights ago. I’d probably take longer faffing with a tube.

    Ecky-Thump
    Member

    I’m convinced tubeless is an answer to a problem that never existed.

    [quote]hate em. but equally had two in 4 years.[/quote]

    Then tubeless is maybe not the answer for you.

    My pre-tubeless record for punctures was three in a single descent. All pinchflats on Garburn Pass.
    I now run all three MTBs tubeless with dual plys on the rear. Problem solved. 😀

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