A fairly depressing PSA but I can’t think of a better way to put it. This has been scrambling around in my head for three days now. I didn’t want to post initially but I wanted to vent, and also I think there might be merit in sharing. I’ll try to keep this post from rambling.

On Sunday morning at 10am a close female relative of mine was carjacked, or hijacked, whatever the correct term is in a supermarket car park. On arriving at the supermarket she noticed five youths sitting on the wall, strange for the time of day, the area and the weather. She went into the shop and did her shopping and left the shop. The youths were still there, now closer to her car. She placed her shopping in the car, returned her trolley and came back to the car. Perhaps realising something was amiss she put her keys in the ignition as she was getting into the car at which point two 18 year old males dragged her out of the car. She tried to fight them, was thrown to the ground, she got up and continued to try to stop them from stealing her car but obviously at about 5ft 5″ and slight build she didn’t stand a chance.

The whole thing lasted about 30 seconds to a minute, and despite her screaming for help and despite a packed car park no one intervened. Luckily there was an off duty Garda (Irish police) in the store and upon hearing what happened he followed the car and managed to get a patrol car to intercept the thieves.

She’s obviously badly rattled, her arms are black and blue and she’s now suffering flashbacks of the event. To make matters worse she’s just been interrogated by an investigator from her insurance company who apparently focused obsessively and almost exclusively on how she entered the car and when she put the key in the ignition leaving her to fear that they won’t pay out (her car is a write off having rammed the patrol car). All of this because five toe rags (3 male, two female) were on the piss all night and couldn’t wait to get the bus home.

Hindsight is 20-20 as they say, but in recounting events she repeatedly said how she noticed something was wrong, but constantly ignored her instincts and didn’t expect the worst (especially on a Sunday morning). This happened in a fairly quiet town, in a very rural area and it’s perhaps the first, at most second time this has ever happened in the county. So point being, talk to your wives and daughters and tell them that if they feel something is wrong trust their feelings.

No one should live in fear, but this could have ended up much much worse.

Shocking behaviour from the investigator. My best wishes for a good recovery for your relative.

Bloody hell that’s terrible, hope she’s doing well.

To think the worst we have is a messy bus station.

🙁 Awful.

Horrid from insurer/investigator too.

Not just for females, a mate’s (male) work colleague was car jacked in Bradford before Christmas.

Not just females . Can imagine this can happen to blokes * too, albeit with an increased level of violence

* obviously doesn’t apply to the keyboard warriors

Not good at all… I hope that your relative manages to recover such an awful shock and the insurance guys aren’t dicks.

Drac – Moderator

Bloody hell that’s terrible, hope she’s doing well.

Well she’s a lot worse now, on Sunday I think she was in shock or still high on adrenaline. Now having to relive it all, and this experience with the insurance investigator she’s had to relive it multiple times and is starting to blame herself. Speaking to her mum earlier, it sounds like she’ll need counselling and isn’t taking it well, which is why I decided to post.

allthepies – Member

Not just for females

No you’re right but accounts seem to suggest that they were waiting for the right victim, ie a lone female or someone who was small enough to pose little threat or offer little resistance. Two of them were in court yesterday morning and haven’t been granted bail. It seems as though the two girls in the car won’t be charged (or haven’t been charged with anything yet) and the other passenger is under 18 so I don’t know what’ll happen to him.

It’s a crime wave waiting to happen I’m afraid. How easy would it be to snatch the keys from just about any driver and shoot off in their car? Most ordinary folk would be so shocked at the initial contact that they probably wouldn’t offer much resistance. We all live in our little secure bubble and when it falls apart we also fall apart.

That must have been flipping terrifying. I realise people say it’s only property and all that, but this could have a terrible effect on her for quite a while.

Also,

despite a packed car park no one intervened

isn’t great either. I realise there’s a bystander effect etc, but jesus, why don’t people do something, anything sometimes?!?

isn’t great either. I realise there’s a bystander effect etc, but jesus, why don’t people do something, anything sometimes?!?

My brother did and ended up getting stabbed three times. He can handle himself as well, used to box for the Army.

forzafkawi – Member

isn’t great either. I realise there’s a bystander effect etc, but jesus, why don’t people do something, anything sometimes?!?

My brother did and ended up getting stabbed three times. He can handle himself as well, used to box for the Army.
[/quote]

Terrible, and there’s the dilemma. I should add that she tried a third time to get back into the car – the way the car park is laid out they had to drive up a side round to get around the shop and onto the main road and at that point a man (who I think might have been the off duty garda) ran after her and held her back. She could have been hit by the car, dragged or anything so she’s thankful to him but it was just her natural reaction to try to stop them.

It’s a 7 year old Mondeo so nothing fancy and not worth dying for but still her property. She’d also left her house keys, phone credit cards etc in the car as well as the shopping.

isn’t great either. I realise there’s a bystander effect etc, but jesus, why don’t people do something, anything sometimes?!?

I agree. But people are scared. Trouble is that unless we as a society grow a set, we just become more scared and the perpetrators get braver. Whether it’s a carjacker, the drunk on the late train, the racist in the football crowd – it takes someone to stand up and say it’s not on.

I’ve been both those people, in the past I’ve stood by ‘waiting’ for someone else to get involved, and then one day I grew a (small) set when something flipped in a football crowd (hence why that example, not saying all football crowds are racist) and i turned on the bloke behind me and told him to shut his horrible swearing racist abuse up. And immediately half a dozen blokes backed me up, who’d all been thinking the same but also were ‘waiting’

It is scary, and I’m not necessarily suggesting stepping in is always sensible, use your brain. But as society we have to grow a pair sometimes.

Hope she’s OK, chance in a million but still horrible.

I’d like to think I would step up to the plate and do something. But the way things are going in this country, if you were to put one of the little scrotes in hospital you’d probably end up faced with a great big lawsuit.

Now that would really hurt…

It comes to something when the Police won’t even chase down bag snatchers on mopeds.

isn’t great either. I realise there’s a bystander effect etc, but jesus, why don’t people do something, anything sometimes?!?

Someone’s given a bloody good example of why not. A different matter if someone is being assaulted (as the ‘main feature’ rather than as a means of committing a robbery and I have intervened in such circumstances in the past).

At the end of the day a car and contents is stuff, and in the case of a car, insured stuff. I’m not prepared to take a stabbing to save an insurance company some money.

You’re not doing it to save an insurance company money. You’re doing it to make society a better place.

Just saying like

Ok we get it 😀

My brother did and ended up getting stabbed three times.

There is a bloke in my village known locally as “Colander Bob” for much the same reason. Stabbed 11 times with a screwdriver when he tried to stop some gadgie breaking into his car outside his house. One came within a few mms of his heart 😯

edlong – Member

At the end of the day a car and contents is stuff, and in the case of a car, insured stuff. I’m not prepared to take a stabbing to save an insurance company some money.

That’s a perfectly logical stance to take. The problem is you might not react logically, or your (not you specifically edlong) assessment of the situation might be off. What looks like a domestic dispute, or a carjacking from a distance might be much more serious – what if there’s a baby in the car for example, or what if the simple act of running over disuades the thief from striking there victim and causing serious injury or mental trauma.

There’s an obvious dichotomy between the type of society we want to live in and what we’re prepared to do for it, probably compounded by the fact that we only really remember the bad things that happen when people intervene, and the possibility of ending up in court for your troubles.

Jeepers, what a frightening experience for her. I trust she is and will get the support to enable her to move on from the incident.

Thanks for posting and I’ll be sharing. Mrs Slack does wing chun which somewhat helps to ease concerns I have for her safety but when there’s a group of them. I’m not sure I’d fancy my chances if similar occurred to me.

Not to question the message but why “A PSA for your female friends and relatives”? I’d say quiet honestly it could be anyone, female or not.

Not really sure what you could reasonably do under the circumstances, my advice would be to just let them take the damn car/bike/whatever and get on with being robbed as opposed to having recieved a kicking or worse.

At the end of the day these things are very rare and where kids are involved even rarer. Should we be walking around in fear of what if’s?

That said I’m sorry she had to go through that.

bloody hell, that sounds awful for her, what a shocking thing to have happened. I think you’re right to post, to remind folk it’s not always roses out there. I think, like a lot of folk I think, tend to live in a bit of a bubble about the chances of being attacked, shocking that some idiots think this kind of behaviour is OK.

Hope she recovers jimjam.

A (male) colleague (in a different office, didn’t really know him) got killed trying to stop someone taking his car.

Don’t bother with it guys and girls, it’s only property. Lock doors etc if you think something dodgy is happening, don’t slow down for people that might attack you etc, but once someone’s in the car with keys, just leave it.

squirrelking – Member

Not to question the message but why “A PSA for your female friends and relatives”? I’d say quiet honestly it could be anyone, female or not.

As per my earlier post – accounts seem to suggest that they were waiting for the right victim, ie a lone female or someone who was small enough to pose little threat or offer little resistance.

At the end of the day these things are very rare and where kids are involved even rarer. Should we be walking around in fear of what if’s?

No and I’m certainly not suggesting that. What I am saying is that in a scenario where you feel as though something is amiss, something is wrong then don’t ignore those feelings. A few months ago I listened to a podcast with a leading personal security consultant and author and while some of it was ott (perhaps USA centric) he spoke at length about trusting your gut and he had researched thousands of case papers regarding violent assaults, rapes and kidnappings where after the event he noticed that a huge number of the victims had felt someone or something was wrong but they supress their instincts and acted in ways that put them in more danger, not less.

She had noticed and registered them right away but continued to act against her instincts, and in recounting the event I could see that she didn’t listen to her gut. Now, some people are probably going to try to conflate that into victim blaming, but that’s not what I am doing at all. What I am saying is that if you’re a lone female and someone looks dodgy, or something seems off, perhaps it is. Don’t risk offending someone or putting someone out.

Five youths could set about most folk and get away, don’t kid yourself.

forzafkawi – Member

I’d like to think I would step up to the plate and do something. But the way things are going in this country, if you were to put one of the little scrotes in hospital you’d probably end up faced with a great big lawsuit.

this is utter nonsense. tabloid scarmongering. I know a chap who in self defence put an attacker in hospital by hitting him with an axe. Not prosecuted (treesurgeon, weapon of opportunity) You will not find single case of this at all -= the only ones are hen they carried on when the crim was no longer a threat and even then you get treated lightly

I would think twice about intervening to protect property but I have intervened a couple of times over the years to prevent injury and protect property. Never been hurt. I would do it again. Although when I was between two guys holding them apart as they tried to bash lumps out of each other there was a moment when I thought ” this could hurt” but it was a crowded street and I was shouting loudly and once I intervened others came to help.

One occasion discretion was the better part of valour I saw a bunch of kids with an obviously stolen bike bump starting it. I took the bike off them and stopped the engine ( they had just got it started) then realised I was surrounded by half a dozen neds who were getting very angry I decided discretion was the better part of valour and gave up. I still regret that tho – I could have made the bike unrideable and did have a weapon with me in the form of a big lock

I am not a big guy and no fighter. One tip is to ake as much noise as possible – scream at them – it disorientates them for a moment.

Five youths could set about most folk and get away, don’t kid yourself.

Give it a rest please.

squirrelking – Member

Five youths could set about most folk and get away, don’t kid yourself.

I’m not disputing that. Had she asked a member of staff to help her out with her shopping the mere presence of another person might have deterred them. If she had left her trolley behind and not returned it she probably could have gotten away from them but despite some kind of intuition telling her something was off she assumed nothing bad would happen and carried on as anyone normally would, hoping for the best.

All I’m saying is if you get a bad feeling about a person, a place or a scenario perhaps there’s a good reason for that feeling so don’t endanger yourself. If there’s nothing to be gained by putting yourself in a bad position don’t do it.

Give it a rest please.

Excuse me?

I’m not sure what it is I’m supposed to have done here, I was simply pointing out that this could happen to anybody on their own, having been randomly attacked in the past I’d say I should know that well enough.

Jimjam, yeah I appreciate that and you make good points about how to make yourself a less attractive target, I just sincerely hope your relative doesn’t blame herself for what happened as it could, as I said, have happened to anyone. Time will heal but no doubt it will have affected her.

A few months ago I listened to a podcast with a leading personal security consultant and author

My guess would be that was Gavin De becker. His book “the gift of fear” is an interesting read.

and once I intervened others came to help.

Exactly that – it’s the opposite of the bystander effect. While everyone is standing around wondering why someone doesn’t do something, once someone does it breaks that spell and others join in.

dissonance – Member

A few months ago I listened to a podcast with a leading personal security consultant and author

My guess would be that was Gavin De becker. His book “the gift of fear” is an interesting read. [/quote]

It was indeed. I haven’t read the book but the bullet points from his podcast with Sam Harris came flooding back to me when I heard what had happened on Sunday and how the events unfolded.

I’m not sure what it is I’m supposed to have done here, I was simply pointing out that this could happen to anybody on their own, having been randomly attacked in the past I’d say I should know that well enough.

Did it really need brought up? No.

Did you have to keep banging on to Jimjam about he didn’t mention males too? No.

Banging on ? Two comments from the king of squirrels!

Wrong side of bed today ?

squirrelking said:
Excuse me?

I think it might of been the unfortunate choice of words…

Five youths could set about most folk and get away, don’t kid yourself.

Might of come across as an attempt at humour in this quite serious of topics!

That’s awful James. Sounds like she’s taken it hard but hopefully she’ll be back to normal, sooner rather than later.

Trying to be positive, it’s almost fortunate the scrotes rammed the police car. It’ll make the offences and punishment much more severe and she’ll never have to see that car again.

Ffs Drac, twice it was mentioned as said. It wasn’t intended to be snarky and I explained that already. There are plenty of shit stirrers on here to choose from, why dont you go after them instead eh?

Euro – Member

Trying to be positive, it’s almost fortunate the scrotes rammed the police car. It’ll make the offences and punishment much more severe and she’ll never have to see that car again.

Yeah that’s a good way to look at it, thanks.

That’s not good, even worse that she has been struggling since the event.

Hope she manages to it behind her.