I’ve started training towards some longer mountain bike rides this summer. I’ve always struggled with anything over 50 miles, but absolutely fine belting round for 20 miles or so at quite a fast pace. Majority of these short faster rides are in zone 4-5.

I’m currently using a generic Garmin training plan (the century plan) and wonder is it a good strategy to increase milage?
I’m struggling with the dull 2 hour zone 2 rides (So. Very. Slow.).
Today I completed a long zone 4 interval workout which was much better, but still difficult to stay within the zones when going up hills.
Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for this kind of training?
Part of me thinks I should just slowly increase the milage on the fast rides until I get where I need to be.
For the record, my riding is all on the South downs and surrounding area, tends to consist of 2-4 10 minute climbs in 20 miles of riding.

What stops you from doing longer rides? Muscle fatigue, cardiovascular system, improper fuelling? If you slowed your pace down how far could you go then?

I’m struggling with the dull 2 hour zone 2 rides (So. Very. Slow.).
Today I completed a long zone 4 interval workout which was much better, but still difficult to stay within the zones when going up hills.
Does anyone have any tips or suggestions for this kind of training?

I think you’re doing what so many riders do which is ride everywhere at the same pace / intensity. And then they wonder why they’re not getting any faster or fitter.

Zone 2 stuff is steady away, chatting pace. Zone 4 is hard.
What it sounds like you’re doing is going everywhere at Zone 3 so you’re getting little of the endurance base from Zone 2 and little of the top end pace from Zone 4.

If you really want to do structured Zone stuff, it’s best done on a turbo where you have far greater control of the pace and timings.

Mix in some HIIT sessions with 4-8min z5 intervals, 2-3min recovery periods, increasing reps from approx 4 to 6 over a number of weeks.

And/or join the Zwift Insider Tiny Races, four sub 15min sprints back to back at 0900, 1500 and 2100 GMT on Saturdays. Brilliant for z4/5 efforts, recover and go again training for those SDW hills.
Tomorrow’s quartet details https://zwiftinsider.com/tiny-race-week-25/

Well you’re not going to be able to do SDW in a day entirely in Zone 4 are you? So better to get used to “dull” Zone 2.

For SDW you’re aiming at 10-12 hours of riding – whilst interval training will help improve your fitness and VO2 max, it isn’t’ going to prepare your body for the accumulated fatigue of being in the saddle that long. By all means stick to the intervals, but I’d be aiming to build up the miles with a long ride each week up to 6 hours – it will also help with getting your nutrition right. There’s also no reason why you Can’t mix up some harder efforts into your Z2 rides like riding the hills hard.

I really don’t understand the “Z2 is slow” rhetoric. If you ride for 3+h solo you will end up around Z2 whether you like it or not! The idea of Z2 style training is to target the relevant muscle fibres and fuel source for the event you are targeting.

Event specific training surely starts with identifying the demands of the event.
If you want to “train to ride steadily for a very long time” by “riding very hard for a very short time” then don’t bother starting a thread, just join Weeksy in a Zwift race every day 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Get comfy doing some 100 mile road rides, get your eating and hydration sussed.

Get some hard long hill reps in your legs.

Should be good to go.

I rode it in a day last July. Started riding in April, really hadn’t done anything for a good long time before that but 15 months as a binman while the pandemic stopped me doing my normal job and running meant I had good fitness. I just built up the miles while doing the real training which was practicing eating. I got to where 50 miles on the sdw seemed like a good ride but didn’t leave me knackered. I think my longest ride was 78 miles. My only goal was to do it and not care about the time. It took me 13.5 hours with 30 minutes lost things needing fixing. If I wanted to do it quicker I’d have done some short flat out rides but I just treated the training as nice days out

I’m doing the same Garmin program as the OP. Only 2 weeks into a 27-week program, so I know I need to give it a chance before I’ll start to notice the benefit. The first part of the program is dull for want of a better word but is supposed to improve base fitness for you to build on later. Last year I did the MTB program, and started to feel the improvement fairly quickly and saw a significant increase in VO2max.
This year in the “century” program, I’m yet to really feel any benefit, but based on last year’s experience, I’m prepared to give it a chance and trust in the process.  There’s definitely more of a low intensity focus with the “century”. I find the best way to stick in zone 2 is to do it fasted, then the risk of bonking is too high if you don’t control your effort. The other option is to go for a ride with people who aren’t as fit, makes it easier to stay in Z2 without getting bored.

edit: I did the SDW in a day before I had the Garmin to dictate my training. I just trained for it by repeatedly going up and down 200-250m climbs locally. The key on the day was just to make sure to stay fuelled with solid food. And if the going starts to get tough, check your tyre pressure in case if a slow leak. To this day I don’t know how long I only had 10psi in the rear before I realised 15 miles from the end.

I’m using wahoo system. put my details in for what I wanted and it has set me a training program.

Embrace the slow Z2 rides. Cruising is good, just feels odd at first. You should be able to do 4-6hrs or more at Z2 and it becomes a good pace for riding that far with consistency.
As has been said, polarization of your efforts is good. Do Z2 but also Z4/5.

There’s also no reason why you Can’t mix up some harder efforts into your Z2 rides like riding the hills hard.

A Z2 ride is less effective if you break it up by stomping up the hills in Z4+. Do 2-3 hrs Z2 then ride the last hour or so fast if you like but don’t mix it up as you go. Consistent time in a zone seems to be what counts.

Z2 is your bread and butter, and will make up the vast majority of your riding on any big endurance ride. If you don’t enjoy it you’re going to struggle.

Even if you were training for shorter stuff you’d do a lot of Z2 because you simply can’t ride hard all the time and keep recovering. That’s your base.

One or two harder rides each week. The rest steady away. Enjoy it.

Thanks for the varied responses. Unfortunately, I don’t have a turbo, so no indoor riding for me, although it does look a lot easier to stick to the zones.
I think the reply that resonates with me the most is @crazy-legs idea that many riders only ride at one speed/effort level. This is true for me.
I’m going to try to embrace the slow z2 and do more solo rides. Just got to find some z2 ways up onto the downs….

A few points.

2 weeks in. That’s not enough time for your body to have made any meaningful adaptations- you’ll not feel anything so soon (if you do, it’s coming from your head and not in your legs !).

The most basic approach (which many fail to do) is an 80/20 split – meaning 80% in zone 2, 20% zone 5 ( assuming your on a 5 zone system).  Most fail to develop and end up at a plateau because they ride zone 3 and 4 all the time.  Slow rides too fast, and hard stuff too easy.  Same message across ironman training, where the target effort is probably similar (most folks out there 10-15 hours, some as little as 8 at a pro level, some out to the max of 17).

As per another post, get used to doing 100+ miles+ on the road – and not in a pack hiding from the wind all the time. Out on your own or one or two buddies and no wheel sucking. And don’t be shy if hills.

Whilst I’m no speed merchant, long days out in an event are are built on long days out not on an event !

(I have found the same for longer swimming events – where the familiarity of long swims means the technique doesn’t fall apart after an hour or 2, because I’m familiar and often put in 2-3hr swims, and have built enough endurance through lots of distance over time so that the muscles are not fatigued (whereas it does  fall apart after 4+ hrs because I rarely to never train for that length of time in water).

Also defo get used to / practice what you’re going to eat whe  out for hours and hours. No new foods on event day, unless you want to risk barfing or pooing yer keks.

Enjoy the ride. And the ride.

Focus on climbing at a nice steady pace, more grinding than spinning. IME it’s the climbs that really take it out of you on longer rides. Spinning along all day is more a mental thing than physical. If you can ride for 4 hours at a steady pace with no ill effects then you’ll very likely be able to ride for 8+ hours with minimal discomfort.

Get your kit all in order, make sure you know how to use it and get used to riding your bike fully kitted out.

@onecheshirecat If you’re struggling to find z2 routes up on to the South Downs, I take it you are not near the Winchester end?

I asked a similar question a few years ago, a good tip was to change down a gear or 2 on the hills compared to what you would usually use.

If I am doing a big day 8+ hrs then I just plod. Still goosed but don’t cramp or bomb.

@robertajobb thanks for the reply. I wasn’t expecting to have adapted to the training within 2 weeks, but wanted opinions from seasoned long distance riders be sure it was a worthwhile training plan in the first place. The idea of a basic 80/20 split of very easy to very hard makes a lot of sense to me. As does doing more focused easy long riding. I guess I get my share of intervals in my normal riding.

@n0b0dy0ftheg0at the most local climb to me is Ditchling Beacon. The climb I used yesterday was Streat Bostall and I was in zone 3/4 the whole way despite being in my easiest gear (30×46 for reference). At the top of the climb I was in zone 5. I wasn’t trying to hurry up there either!

Just going to have to learn to plod. And ride solo more.

Yeah, Streat Bostal wouldn’t be my first choice for an easy ride up onto the tops 😂

Can you nip round to Clayton Hill and go up the road climb to Jack & Jill? *Much* easier.

I struggle to do low intensity Z2 rides as it’s so lumpy round here in W Yorks. Go out with the intent of riding low and slow but can barely stay in zone 3 anytime it goes uphill so no consistency.

Just training in z4 will lead to overtraining. And riding outside, particularly on the downs, makes it very difficult to do pure Z2 session, cos getting up on the downs is almost never going to be z2. But once you’re up there you can do some Z2/3 along the tops.
One thing that works for me to get fit for longer days is doing long out and back rides. You could do Chanctonbury, or Firle or Eastbourne and back, and then extend further so you are comfortable at 2/3rds of the full distance.
The mix of climbs and tops is giving you a good mix of high intensity and lower zones, and builds the kind of fitness that will get you ready for SDW in a day.
But take your time and build the fitness gradually and you’ll be in great shape.
As someone above said you’ll need to pay attention to your feed strategy, and the longer training rides give you the chance to get that right too.

@john_l but Clayton hill = people in cars. I hate riding roads with a passion. A fair amount of our group have had near misses locally and it just puts me off completely.

@snownrock exactly how I feel!

@susepic it’s not training as such, just our regular riding tends to be at this level. I’ve just got to try and get up top as slowly as possible and slow down when I get up there too. I’ve been conditioned into years of ‘getting the horrible climb out the way as quickly as possible’!

I did SDW in a day a few years ago – it was the longest ride I’d ever done at the time (on or off road).

Don’t do that.  I managed it but can’t really remember the second half and it **** me over for quite a while afterwards !

I’d do some long bimbly rides as ^ they all said and spice up other days with the hill-grinds.  You’ll be better able to recover after the climbs if you’ve the miles in you as preparation (see the zone2 thread for “science”)

Yep, but your group rides contribute to your training load. If you do some additional rides in Z2 you’ll relatively quickly find your aerobic base improves. I did something similar back in 20/21, changing from Z4 sessions to Z2/3 and found i was able to go further, and ultimately quicker than shorter high intnsity sessions. Having a big goal like the SDW makes it easier to tough out the slower sessions cos you have a rationale for doing them.

I get the comment about Clayton Hill, but if you start at the bottom from Underhill Lane, you are only on the main road for 3-4 mins, and then onto Mill Lane. And the steady gradient means you can control your effort more easily than Streat.
If you keep hard left it’s not too bad, and if you are out early Sunday, the traffic is pretty light.

The Beacon isn’t too bad either, and traffic usually considerate and slower moving than Clayton

@susepic Went out, managed the Clayton climb in zone 2. Quite happy with that. The ride was infinitely less boring along the top of the downs than on the road too
Enjoyed the ride much more today.

@onecheshirecat glad you had a good ride and Clayton Hill not too horrid. Probably z1 going east on the tops with that tailwind i imagine.

@onecheshirecat – fancy some early Zone2 training on Saturday morning?!

I’ve always struggled with anything over 50 miles, but absolutely fine belting round for 20 miles or so at quite a fast pace.

That’s totally fair enough. 50 miles is a long way. Doesn’t mean you’re not fit enough to ride 100 miles in one go. just that it’ll be a bit more of a struggle. Keep eating and keep pedaling.

First time I did SDW in a day, I was feeling tired, looked at the GPS – 30 miles in. I thought: “30 miles, any other day and I’d be quite happy with 30 miles, and being this tired at the end – that’s quite a long ride!”

Then again at 50 miles “50 miles, any other day and I’d be quite happy with 50 miles, and being this tired at the end – that’s a long ride!”

“70 miles! I’ve only ridden 70 miles in one go a couple of times, not surprised I’m this tired – that’s quite a long ride!”

etc.

Part of me thinks I should just slowly increase the milage on the fast rides until I get where I need to be.

Do that! Unless all you ride is dirt jumps or something, just keep doing the riding you like. Occasionally chuck a long one in, as much to remind yourself of what it feels like in your head as in your body.

i dont know about any of this zoning stuff you are on about but when i trained for the SDW in a day i just did increasingly longer rides and maxed out the number of hills i rode up on my commutes in between those rides.

For the record, my riding is all on the South downs and surrounding area, tends to consist of 2-4 10 minute climbs in 20 miles of riding.

There is big difference between a 20 miler and a 40 miler and an even bigger difference to a 100 miler ride. My training rides were 30-40plus miles a go. i didnt bother with 20 mile rides as they are too short to be meaningful when looking at a 100miler goal. You cant ride a 40 miler at the same pace as a 20 miler (without some significant effort) and you cant ride 100 at the same pace as a 40.

All my riding is south downs too. I`d ride from brighton to friston, do a lap of a few friston trails and jumps (to not die of boredom) and ride back.
(edit)
the other thing to consider is that the SDW is pretty boring technically but its is full of hills. so max out the amount of hills, the steeper teh better, on all your rides. if its flat – its a pointless part of teh ride.