TrainerRoad – STW approved sessions

That’s interesting.

I’ve not listened to any of the TR podcasts but I might give them a try.

What’s the cheapest IT setup I can get away with?

I have a Windows 7 laptop and a compatible dumb trainer for virtual watts.

Trainerroad support seems to suggest I just need the ANT dongle with compatible sensors, it doesn’t list an operating system…

Ta

ANT+ dongle
Speed sensor (ANT+)
(or you can do BT if a BT speed sensor is available)

Something that can read the ANT or Bluetooth. My old phone would run the ANT but the newer one doesn’t want to. Laptop/Ipad/etc. Using a phone is suprisingly fine and makes it easier to watch a TV in the background.
I mostly run on a laptop with TR minimized to the top blocking out the top bit of Netflix.

Well ANT+ is a comms protocol and is OS agnostic, the dongle converts that signal to a form that the SW on your device can use.

A USB dongle plus cadence/speed and HR sensors should be enough. Something like this: https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-ant-usb?g=0 for the dongle. Might be worth getting a dual channel BT/ANT+ heart rate monitor to cover all bases – I use this one https://www.wiggle.co.uk/lifeline-bluetooth-ant-compatible-heart-rate-monitor

Speed/cadence sensor – https://www.wiggle.co.uk/wahoo-rpm-speed-sensor-with-bluetooth-40-and-ant

Just finished the low volume sweetspot base plan, paired up with reruns of the Classics and CX season on Eurosport Player it’s been surprisingly enjoyable.

It’s the first bit of training I’ve done in about four years so it’ll be interesting to see how it’s progressing when I do another ramp test on Monday.

I’ve been doing quite a few of the workouts outdoors – reasonable for the steady state ones but not so much for the sprint/VO2max/Anaerobic intervals. We’ve a lot of hills around us so it’s a case of looking at the workout and picking a hill to match.

Today’s workout was Mount Goode: 3x15mins at just below FTP (98% or so). With snow falling this morning I settled on the hardtail. Good choice! The problem was I’d had to wait for a new chain to arrive (TBF to Hermes they delivered in the time slot they said they would) so it was 1430 before I got going.

There was lying slush for the top part of the climb. OK on the first rep but the top 200m was frozen by the second rep and by the third I was getting wheel slip by the time I was halfway up. So I cut the last rep short by two mins – I’d still got a hill to climb to get home so some more work to compensate.

My Garmin gave a temp of -1C which was probably about right.

Well that was fun.

Six weeks of low volume sweetspot training and my ramp test showed a drop in FTP of 7w 🤣

Did Bashful+1 today. The last time I tried this workout I had to skip two of the intervals in the last set, did the next one then had to skip another, that was with an FTP 7% lower than today. In fact it was so traumatic that I skipped the next two times it was scheduled!

This time I lowered the intensity a little (2%) after the first interval in the second set. This made things much more manageable.

I did bashful +2 last night. It’s certainly not for the faint hearted is it.
I’m on general build at the moment and ftp seems to be rising nicely. Just need a race to use it all in now!

Somewhat weirdly despite the naming convention Bashful+2 is easier than Bashful+1. 90/50 work-recovery ratio rather than 60:30 plus only five efforts per set. Just wait until you get to Kaiser+2!

Just had a look at kaiser +2 ! That’s a stumble off the bike sort of a work out

Evening All.

Thought I would drop-in to say Hi as I’m aiming to start a TR plan for the second time tomorrow.

I wonder is there any consensus on what the minimum duration of a plan should ideally be?

I see that TR automatically reverts to a 12 month duration when I enter a plan start date and then I have to manually adjust the end-date to something more appropriate (though I note it doesn’t prompt me to check the end-date or offer any recommendation as to what would be an ideal length of time).

I don’t have any particular event or objective in mind other than I want to be fit for road riding in the Summer and maybe seeing if I can match or better some of my Strava times on local hills etc.

In my initial plan build I input 4 months duration (Feb-May) but wonder if I should really extend this?

(I’m aiming to do 3-4 sessions a week if it makes a difference)

TR’s plan builder defaults to 12 months duration if you don’t enter an ‘A’ race for it to aim for. So if you want to use Plan Builder for a “limited” time then find something like a sportive or similar event and set that as your ‘A’ race – or just make something up.

TR’s standard progression of Base, Build and Speciality comes to 28 weeks in length (12wks Base, 8 wks Build & 8wks Speciality). Plan Builder then, for want of a better phrase, mixes and matches those to build up to whatever length of time you have for training. So if you have longer then you’ll get something like: Base; Build; Base; Build; Speciality. And so on.

There’s one problem with following the above progression – Speciality should really only be used for “sharpening” your fitness in anticipation of an event/race. If you aren’t aiming for anything then alternating between Build and Base would be the way to go. Base is in two parts, the first is really “Turbo 101” and is just to get you up speed (sic), so the above is now Base Pt2 – Build and repeat.

It may seem a bit boring repeating workouts, even several months apart, but it does let you compare them over time – hopefully you’ve improved.

There are several Build programmes, just choose one that you like the look of, maybe choose a different one second time round and so on. There are also the “Enthusiast” plans which can be used as “block” HIIT training if you want to try one of those.

The other problem with TR plans long term is there’s no “ebb and flow” or long term periodisation. So while there is progression in terms of effort (TSS) from week to week there’s no real off-season so you need to work that out yourself.

Excellent, that is really helpful, thanks Whitestone!

I’m quite happy to repeat workouts and am fairly used to interval training in principle so sounds like Base (2) + Build is indeed the way to go then.

Although most coaches for amatuers seem to be leaning towards no real “off” season. Also as they get older it’s detrimental overall as it’s harder to get back what you lose. TR/Joe Friel from memory are saying this.
I usually slow down end of October(and December is always busy with other stuff) so plan for this year is to drop into the traditional base plan for a couple of months and add in some intensity with Zwift races then start on SSBase in January.

IMO don’t skip SSB1 there are gains to be made from the more sweetspot work.
Depends what you have been doing. I’ve just finished a shorter 2nd stint in SSB1 and expect to add more watts on the next ramp test again. There was a 4 week break from “training” between them but intensity was kept up still in smaller doses racing.

Did Bashful+2 today. A bit of a struggle and had to lower the intensity by a couple of percent for the last four intervals. Still ended up with an IF of 0.96 for an hour’s workout! Either Avalanche Spire + 1 or a custom VO2max workout tomorrow.

@tomlevell – I wasn’t meaning off-season as in do nothing, more like an extended recovery week just to let the batteries recharge as it were. So if your weekly TSS was in the 400 range then drop to 200 for a two to three or four weeks until you are ready to go again. Looking back at my Calendar I see a period of a lot of skipped workouts last August – I’d been on a training plan for ten months at that point and I think I just needed to chill for a bit. Didn’t do that much harm since the next Ramp test after I picked things up again I got a 3% improvement. All a bit of a balancing act between work and recovery both short and long term.

Chickened out of riding outside today, I’ve been pushing workouts to outside recently but just couldn’t be bothered today (mrs did brave it and came back perished!)

Did Galena+1. Fairly tough but at least I finished it this year, last year I bailed halfway through the final 20min interval. Got quite a few power PRs particularly 30min +.

Recovery week next week.

I haven’t done much outdoor riding at all this year though if I’m totally honest its partly because I saved up for a nice road bike last year and in my head its very much a “summer” bike and I can’t really bear to slog it through the winter muck and grit as spent ages saving up for it.

Started a 4 month TR plan last week and my “event” is a tilt at my Strava PB on a local climb at the end of May. I had no intention of actually doing it and was really using it purely as a placemarker but now I’ve input it it seems as good an objective as any, so that’s now the objective.

Start of my plan hasn’t been helped by getting an eye infection but I don’t suppose that’s any reason not to hit the turbo.

I’ve just started with trainer road – never really used a turbo before, or had any kind of structured cycle training. Just looking to up my fitness for mtb pretty much. I don’t plan to race or anything – just want to be a bit quicker up the hills mostly.

I’ve been using a dumb trainer and done the ramp test / erikson -1 sessions so far. The longer weekend session it suggests every week I’m skipping as out on my mountain bike having fun instead. Either 40k ish with around 300m of climbing or 25k ish with 800 metres of climbing recently (all from the door with no car / no gnar trails).

I’ve run the turbo with a Garmin speed sensor / cadence sensor and hr chest strap and it’s been ok. On the ramp test I found the cadence was mental high to hit the virtual power when it got over 260 ish – ran out of gears to slow it down with 50/11 as my highest. On erikson -1 this was less of an issue and my legs already seem to be finding going at higher rpm than normal easier.

Got another 2 sessions in this week – then my new smart turbo should arrive (Kickr Core).

If I change the turbo in my settings so TR knows I’ve got a smart trainer is it going to just let me continue with the plan where I’ve got to, or is it going to want me to do a ramp test and start over? Will be interesting to see if it’s been over or under estimating my power – hoping it’s the latter!

TR will let you continue the plan, but it will keep your FTP the same until you do a new ramp test. Personally, I would be looking to do a ramp test as soon as possible on your new Kickr Core, if virtual power has been overestimating then you are going to find the workouts too tough.

A different set of equipment, but when i moved from Saris Magnus measured power to Garmin Vector V3, I had to take a 6.5% drop in FTP. Demoralising!

I found erikson-1 bloody hard and had to turn the intensity down from 100 to 90% so maybe it has overestimated it (sad face)

Yeh do a new Ramp Test – use the next week or so just to get used to the structure. I lost 25w from my FTP overnight when I went from a wheel on trainer to a wheel off trainer!

Think my virtual ftp is only 238 to start with, so not a huge amount to lose!

You should really retest whenever you change equipment, well bike, turbo, power meter. I think I “lost” 15% going from virtual power to a proper power meter.

If you are doing Ericsson-1 then you’re on a low volume plan so if you arrange your training days through the week you’ve got the weekend to play outside which is what I do.

Ericsson-1 shouldn’t be “bloody hard” unless you’ve got your FTP totally wrong. Looking at the last time I did Ericsson (not done the -1 version, it may have been added to SSBLV1 recently, Mount Field used to be the first workout after the ramp test) my HR only just got into Z4 for less than a minute. Does your trainer have resistance levels that you can change or is the resistance purely down to how quickly you pedal and your gearing? 260W does seem very low for any turbo to be topping out.

Do you have a decent fan? I.e. one that really blasts air across you? It’s very easy to overheat on a turbo.

If you want anyone to look at how you are coping with workouts then make your profile public, assuming you’ve no really personal data in there.

Edit: if you’ve not trained (properly) before then you may well see a significant increase in FTP at the end of SSBLV1 which can be as much about testing better and being used to riding on the turbo as actual fitness gains. Be warned! SSBLV2 is hard work and is mostly threshold (FTP) and above rather than sweet spot or endurance. TR themselves say that it’s almost Build pt1.

Just checked and I’m on sweet spot base low volume 1.

Trainer at the moment is a cycleops mag+ that’s done the rounds of a few people – I can’t workout if the resistance adjustment is actually doing much.

On the ramp test I ended up in 50/11 in terms of gears and over 100 cadence to try and keep up with the virtual power target. The test actually says max cadence was 113 on trainer road that I can see – but Strava claims it was 133rpm. Can’t believe that Strava figure – my legs don’t go that fast.

As soon as the Kickr arrives I’ll re-run the ramp test one morning.

In terms of erikson-1 being hard I’d say it was the burn in the front of my thighs that hurt – aerobically I was feeling ok. I reckon it’s just the intensity I’m pushing at on the turbo is higher than I’d push myself out on the mtb or even road bike.

To work out if the adjustment is doing anything put your gears into something in the middle of the range and pedal constantly. Set the resistance to the lowest level. Have the TR app running. Now adjust the resistance to maximum but keep pedalling at the same rate, it should feel harder but TR will report the same power as it doesn’t know you’ve changed things.

Something seems wrong TBH, 50/11 at almost any resistance should feel hard especially at a cadence of 100rpm. I’ve a magnetic dumb trainer and on level 2 I’d be pushing out over 1000W at 100rpm in 50/11, in fact even in sprints I don’t remember getting to a bigger gear than 50/14 before I couldn’t give any more. I’ve been doing VO2max workouts and at 150% of FTP (272W) so 400W, my wife complains that the furniture around the house is shaking!

SSBLV1 = Sweet Spot Base Low Volume 1 BTW, it’s the only plan Ericsson-1 appears in.

Turbo work is hard work, you get zero rests which is unusual outdoors unless you are doing a TT, even then there’s likely to be a little coasting for tight bends or the turn at a roundabout. In fact we probably rely on those micro rests a lot more than we’d like to admit. So you’ll need a little time to get used to things. But if your FTP is right then in theory (and assuming trained) you should be able to hold the power levels in the intervals in Ericsson-1 for nearly 2hrs at a stretch.

It can also be useful in understanding RPE levels in terms of your power output, on a 1-10 scale 7-8 is the sort of effort you should be able to hold for an hour. It’s not a bad check, I’ve done some workouts outdoors without a power meter using RPE and estimated power has been very close to what I’d do indoors even allowing for being on a fat bike or MTB.

Some of the workout instructions can be a bit event/bike specific so you’ll learn to ignore those 😇 But the cadence ones can be useful. Also read the workout blurb to understand what that workout is trying to achieve.

Cool cheers – I think the 238 ftp is probably too high then as I found Erikson really hard on the legs. Will do a few more workouts on it this week and then when the Kickr turns up I’ll get it all setup then redo the ramp test on there. See where I end up then! Any kind of decent interval training will improve my fitness at the moment I reckon. Never had a proper plan – just tried to ride as much as I can whilst being a dad / working etc!

A double header, well almost.

I’d created my own VO2max workout, basically the intervals are 30 seconds hard start then a minute descending to 115% of FTP then hold that for 90 seconds. There are six intervals and the 30 seconds hard start drops by about 3% for each interval, the first interval is at 140% and the last at 125%. The idea is that you get your HR to 90%MHR by the end of the descending ramp so as the workout progresses you don’t need such hard starts.

That’s the theory. I got to the third interval which is one better than my previous best attempt at this. More my legs struggling than HR or breathing though neither of those were exactly pleasant to witness.

Then went straight to Pettit which is classic endurance territory.

Quite enjoying the trainer road sessions on the kickr core now. Smart trainer is more enjoyable than dumb trainer.

Ftp was 221 on a new ramp test –
In ERG mode it gradually just ground me to a halt which was very different to the ramp on the dumb trainer.

Feeling stronger on the mtb up hills already – got some pbs last time out without actually trying that hard and felt like I had some extra kick in my legs.

Did Erikson -1 this morning – on the last spin up I found I had more go so turned it up to 115% on the gauge at the bottom of the screen. Felt great…..thinking by the next ramp test I should have gone up in ftp for sure.

Did Fish-2 this morning. Pretty hard work, managed the first three intervals OK but there was nothing much in my legs for the last one and my power was dropping out of threshold down into tempo so I bailed early.

Still managed to do 51mins at just below FTP out of the target 60 so not a total disaster.

That Fish workout sounds hard. Did Antelope today for the first time (my first round of TR workouts since I signed up / got a smart turbo) – it was meant to be the 1.30 session but I only had an hour so did Antelope -5. I found that really difficult and my rpm was dropping down to the 70’s towards the end of the last 2 of the 4 blocks. I reckon grinding out power near ish to my ftp for any length of time is my weakness that needs working on. The sprint type workouts and shorter sweet spot ones (Goddard and Erikson) are fine and I quite enjoy those. Baxter was less fun with a constant output without the spin at lower power between higher output sections. Antelope definitely the least enjoyable one for me.

It’s really helping mtb hill climbing though – knocked out 850m of climbing on the weekend gone and still felt fairly fresh at the end (circa 3 hour ride – would have been shorter if I hadn’t been trying to workout where a bridleway I’d not ridden before was). Knocked 2 minutes off a hill that had taken 9 mins to climb a few weeks ago – so I think things are going the right way so far 🥰

If this works as intended then it’s going to be pretty amazing. Machine learning based adaptive training. I’m only 40 mins or so into the video at the moment so don’t know everything that’s being revealed, I’ll probably have to listen to it a couple of times to get everything.

Obviously very much towards the infomercial end of things.

Just a beginner question – now been doing the SSBLV1 for a while – still got a while to go on it too. Been doing 3 sessions a week before work and feeling quite a bit stronger already. First time today with 2x20min sweet spot just a bit below ftp I tested a few weeks back. Though it was going to be hideous – and while it was constant pressure I finished the second interval still feeling fairly strong. Would it hurt to either add in a 4th session a week sometimes – and if so what sort of workout should I pick? Assume not a Hiit type 1 but more of a base / low intensity type thing?

Im no expert, but used TR for few years. Always best to stick to workout & their numbers. If you have time, next plan go to Mid volume? I have always done low volume and dont think anything zone 2 or lower inside or outside has negative effects. If I do 3x LV workouts have often had slow Sunday ride outside as well? I think if people are finding SS and higher threshold workouts a breeze maybe FTP is bit under. Ive done all SS base, and now on General build and every workout (apart from rest week) you know you have done a proper workout 🙂

Add Pettit. It’s the usual filler on the mid volume. With the recommended cadences it’s taxing enough.

Don’t add another hard session at this point IMO.
You could add a few percent onto each interval as well on your main sessions if you feel up to it. I normally do so after the first one as you have more info on what you can do that day.

Fatigue can catch up quick even when you are feeling great.

I only do low volume and then add long easy rides at the weekend (I move the three workouts to midweek days specifically to allow this). The rides are usually outdoors depending on the weather.

Pettit as suggested or maybe one of the Baxter group if you want something a little more varied – my goal is to complete Baxter entirely within my HR Z1, the closest I’ve got is 90s of Z2!

Another option is to use the “extend cool down” period by ten or fifteen minutes then up the intensity to somewhere between 50-60% and just spin it out.

The stress does accumulate over the weeks BTW. Remember to fuel properly for the workouts as well, SSBLV1 isn’t too bad but SSB pt2 and whichever Build plan you go for are hard work. I went through the full Base-Build-Speciality cycle and by the end was pretty tired but that also included quite a bit extra done outdoors, weekly TSS was over 500.

When we get to the intensity of Tempo and above it becomes very individual as to what we find hard or easy. I’m fine on Sweet Spot and Threshold but really struggle on VO2max workouts. This may be an age thing – from reading I *think* that the FTP-MAP ratio changes as you age so that FTP is no longer 75% of MAP, it’s more like 80% or even 85% so when the workouts ask for 120% FTP you aren’t in the VO2max range but up in anaerobic!

Cheers guys – will possibly add in Pettit next week or maybe one of the Baxter workouts. I’m going a touch lighter on timings – I struggle to fit in 1.5 hours on a week day so virtually all my sessions are an hour or hour 15. Then in the weekend I’m typically doing an mtb ride of about 30km / 850m of climbing. Looking to drop off some weight as much as build more power / stamina. At 5’9 and 82kgs I think a drop in weight would benefit my hills climbing as much as building more power and stamina.

Pretty sure my endurance has already gone up – at the end of my last mtb ride I still had a suddenly burst of speed up a slight incline at pretty high Revs. I didn’t used to have that. My climbing is definitely improving too.

https://www.trainerroad.com/blog/how-to-safely-add-volume-to-a-training-plan/

Bit of info here from there blog that might be relevant but I think it has been covered above.

I’ve been using Trainerroad since the New Year and I’m currently halfway through SSBLV II. I’ve been doing some of the workouts outdoors recently which is good when the sun shines. I’m currently doing 3 additional rides on top of the low volume plan but I don’t know if this will be sustainable with build and speciality phases.

I’m just wondering how many people keep going with TR training throughout the year? Do you find that you can keep up with structured training as well as your normal outdoor fun rides?

I’m just wondering how many people keep going with TR training throughout the year? Do you find that you can keep up with structured training as well as your normal outdoor fun rides?

In the past I’ve found it quite hard to keep up TR year round. It’s a bit easier to stay focused and disciplined when it’s dark & cold outside but once the real world becomes more appealing I find it really hard to stay in the garage. That said, I’d usually have a training plan on the go over the summer as a bit of a guide but would get intensity from bunch rides, races and the odd hill rep session. When/if I go back to road racing again I’ll probably make more use of the outdoor workouts feature but I’m happy to sacrifice a bit of physiological optimisation in the name of having fun.