Don’t get me wrong. I take a holiday to Scotlands highlands just once a year for biking and munroing and include laggan wolf trax as a good rainy day option because it’s nice and sheltered.

I know all the standard stuff in Hebden, riverbed, chipps, kebab st, Bluepig, that steps-turning bit up from blue pig and down the face/from the top of Heptonstall but I’m sure there are bits that I’m missing?

Barely. Scratching. The. Surface. 😉

Its all relative but I’m surprised that “Hebden Bridge” (which is a sweeping statement because theres trails from easy to fkn super doopa hard and everything inbetween) features so highly.

this thread is really special.

+1

To the OP, I’m guessing their grading is fundamentally not flawed – I’ve never read any complaints about TA.

Is it just me that was expecting something like alcoholics anonymous but for train spotters for this thread, going by the title?

I imagine it must be tricky trying to gauge riding ability to make sure guests are challenged but not hospitalised, but I also imagine that the majority of folk filling out a form like that exaggerate their level – perhaps they have a system of just knocking 2 levels off from folks responses and starting from there on the first day!

I imagine it must be tricky trying to gauge riding ability to make sure guests are challenged but not hospitalised, but I also imagine that the majority of folk filling out a form like that exaggerate their level – perhaps they have a system of just knocking 2 levels from folks responses and starting from there on the first day!

When I was a student I worked for a ski company. in the first few weeks I worked there, when customers wanted to buy kit, I used to ask (incorrectly) “what level of skier are you?” and was generally met with a response of “super douper advanced” from guys would went on one weeks ski holiday every year, to “meh, i’m about average” from guys who had done multiple seasons but were so used to being surrounded by other talented skiers. Another great one was the indignant “I’ve been skiing for 20 years young man!”, great, well done, so you’ve done less than one season’s skiing and spaced it out over two decades, congratulations 🙂 The 18 year old on his gap year has as many weeks on snow.

Some people, when they are passionate about their sport, just don’t like admitting they are average or below average at it. They talk the talk and all that, but strangers in shops or in the car park generally don’t get to see them ride/ski etc so it doesn’t matter how great they claim they are.

It turned out to be far easier to ask people how many weeks on snow they had and the type of skiing they actually did, rather than aspired to in the pub (easier said than done). Anyone would could actually count the number of weeks wasn’t “advanced” 🙂

It’s so hard to judge your own riding too. If you’re always riding with better riders, then you’ll tend to say “well, I’m alright” though the reality is you’ll probably end up better than the guy who’s the big dog in a local group of dobbers.

Daveyboywonder cough cough show me and I’ll ensure your train runs ontime 😀

Deal! September is looking free for a ride…

Tbh i wouldnt be impressed till i saw at the top level – cleans kilbo path on a fully rigid dutch town bike .

Would blow this fabled hebden bridge out the water im sure 😉

Dealo!

I used to ask (incorrectly) “what level of skier are you?” and was generally met with a response of “super douper advanced” from guys would went on one weeks ski holiday every year, to “meh, i’m about average” from guys who had done multiple seasons but were so used to being surrounded by other talented skiers

Well established psychological effect

All this questions are impossible

I really noticed it in rock climbing where even a relatively consistent grading system acts as a smoke screen. My jolt back to reality was thinking I was making progress when I tried for an E3. I had to que!!

The trouble is that if you lead HVS at Stanage you can feel superior to all the VS leaders. If you lead E3 but all you mates are leading E5 you feel like an idiot

Do many guiding holiday places actually do this? When I went with BV there were two groups (us 4 and about 7 others). Us 4 went off with Phil for the week and the rest with Lucy apart from one day when we all did some riding over the St Bernard Pass area. From what I can remember we started with a few smallish drops which I’m guessing was Phil quickly establishing how good/bad we were which then led into a monster 6600m of vertical descending on the first day!

And there is NOTHING in Hebden that prepared me for Verbier… Maybe the most technical trails there but in terms of the length and exposure of some of the trails, I doubt theres much in the UK which is comparable. But you progress quickly out there I found especially following Phil down stuff which you’d normally stop and look at first or racing Lucy down the switcbacks at the end of the Brazilian!

Trail grading is a bloody minefield for all the points raised above, it can also lead to complacency when rocking up to a Trail Centre you’ve not ridden at before. “I have ridden the red at Thetford so therefore…”

Also – worth mentioning that a UK green/blue/red/black has absolutely no relation to a green/blue/black/double black in Whistler or other Canadian bikeparks. Also 1 black in whistler will use a completely different skillset to the next. A-line vs No Joke for example.
To remedy than Whistler have T (tech) and F (Flow) designations next to the trail grade. e.g. Black (F) vs Blue (T).

In the UK trail centres I would suggest there should be 2 scales, 1 for endurance and one for techyness (up and down). As it’s not clear which one dictates the level.

How does this relate to non-trail centre trails? F*** knows. I suppose you could use the same criteria you would use to grade Trail centre techyness for certain clearly defined descents, eg jacobs Ladder or The Beast in the peaks or Minton Batch on Long Mynd.

For instance you could Grade Jacobs Ladder a Black (T) and Minton batch a Blue (F)

It’s all rubbish since it also depends on so many factors, and picking an area like the Peaks or whatever tells you very little about anyone’s ability.

Got to laugh at Hebden bridge being listed, I’ve been riding over 20 years and never heard of it as a destination to ride at. I guess the only reason it’s on the map is ‘cos of this place.

I’m amazed why people try and do a summary to gauge who is coming, imagine if every what sort of rider questionnaire went to 3 pages

As many have pointed out, it’s ‘just’ a guide, it’s not meant to be a definitive list of riding ability or fitness

OP has his knickers in a twist over nothing ( TBH its prob in there as a joke)

Stealth marketing for Trail Addiction? 🙂

I have to say this thread is bloody hilarious! Quite simply because you really would NOT believe how many hours (I reckon it must be into the thousands in total, by now) we spend each week deliberating this very point in order to try to better match our riding groups at trailAddiction.

I can also tell you that we pretty much had a fist-fight over this when we first came up with it. All the same points made here, were made between us. Its a bloody minefield I can tell you!

If anyone has a better suggestion – and I don’t mean slagging off what we have, but proposing a complete and workable new way of doing it, Im very much all ears!

We are aware that our current system is somewhat flawed – though we do find it works much better than a written flowery self-description – or nothing at all. Its what to do instead that is the difficult thing. Especially since many of our customers now come from outside of the UK and therefore they have no idea where any of those examples are! Even so, it does help us an awful lot. Because one thing I can tell you for certain is you cannot judge someone by the bike they ride, the kit they wear, or how fit / hard / sick / on the scene they look either. Not till you’ve actually ridden with them.

Our best suggestion so far was to make little videos of someone riding “in the style of” our own ratings. But even that is going to be interpretation. Plus there’d clearly be huge arguments over which of our guides was “the most level 6” .

Anyway, Im off – more important things to do right now than slag of my own rating system (its Sunny outside & its Friday night beer & barbecue time!) 🙂

PPS I have never actually ridden Hebden either. Someone reliable once told me it was WELL ‘ ARD. Now wondering how on earth it ever ended up on the list!

BillOddie – Member

In the UK trail centres I would suggest there should be 2 scales, 1 for endurance and one for techyness (up and down). As it’s not clear which one dictates the level.

Hashtags 😆

Nevis Red: Fitness blue, Tech black. #rocks #woodwork #priceofailure
Trail sections…
Spooky Wood: Grade red #jumps #berms #whyisthisdescentsopedally?

OK, I’m joking but it’d work.

Spooky wood #zzzzzzzzzz # is it done yet im bored # needs more body armour # needs more travel # omg brakin bumps!!!

#serprider?

legend – Member

#serprider?

Grade 6

If anyone has a better suggestion – and I don’t mean slagging off what we have, but proposing a complete and workable new way of doing it, Im very much all ears!

Oooooh! Defining things is a fun thing that law goons like to do!

How about something like this. When I want to do a new trail (whether highland natural route or trail centre, I want to know how difficult it is (will I be able to ride it), how much bottle I need to clear things (are the features committing) and what are the consequences of a crash (are the technical sections death traps).

If I had an objective indicator that told me those things, I’d know whether I’d be up for a trail, both physically and mentally.

Soooooo…

Commitment grade is C1 (low commitment, i.e. you can roll the difficult bits with your eyes closed) to C5 (high commitment, you need to hit technical features at speed to clear them)

Exposure grade is E1 (low exposure, so regardless of how much commitment you need or how difficult the section, if you fall the consequences aren’t bad) to E5 (if you crash you might die)

Then just use regular Green/Blue/Red/Black to denote the actual technical skill level required to ride the trail

For example…..

Nevis DH is a Red C3 E3 since it has difficult technical features, most can be rolled but you need a bit of momentum and won’t be able to stop once you’re on the features, and without particularly high consequences if you crash.

Nevis Red is Red C4 E4 since it has difficult technical features, requires a considerable commitment to get over the features and the consequences of a fall can be quite significant due to the steepness and the terrain.

Laggan black is Black C4 E2 since it has very difficult technical features, requires considerable commitment to clear those features but the consequences of a fall aren’t too bad.

Stainburn black is Black C3 E2 since it has very difficult technical features, requires some degree of commitment to clear them but the consequences of falling are quite low.

Ben Lomond is a sustained Red C3 E3 with sections of Black C4 E4 which can be avoided.

Glencoe black in the wet is Black C5 E5 since it’s absolutely nails, you need to be like a kamikaze pilot to clear section and the falls are limb breakers.

The North Face Trail is Blue C1 E1 since your gran could ride it with the only commitment being required is getting out of the car if it’s raining and the consequences of a fall are only just above falling into a ball swamp.

I still think you’re weird thinking nevis red is harder than the downhill… I mean, when I first rode the red, I was pretty much a complete knobber, on an xc hardtail, it all went swimmingly. 3 or 4 years later, and a far better rider, and I finally decided to ride the world cup on my hardtail, it was in places as hard as balls and I’m not at all embarassed that I fell off.

I’ve ridden the WC on my Shocker and more recently on my HT. I think the difference to me is that I can ride it quickly in sections and the bits that are tricky are fairly straightforward to ride a bit slower. I’m definitely not saying I’m much use on it, I just don’t find it that “balls out” to get a bit of speed up (I’m not that quick either, but definitely quicker on that than the red).

The red isn’t particularly hard, but if things get out of hand I tend to have some seriously worrying moments. I’ve had some of my biggest offs on the red. It’s probably just me. I honestly don’t think it’s hard, just pretty serious if ridden fast. The big rocky sections on the middle third are difficult to ride at speed on a HT (ok ok, i find them difficult to ride at speed), and if you come off then it’s just more rocks you’ve got to land on, so I find myself dropping my speed a bit.

I’ve not seen that many riders doing the red at full tilt, and the ones I have seen going seriously quick just look like they are out of control 🙂

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I’m coming to realise that much of my experience on the DH is down to luck (not having any serious crashes) and riding the worst sections quite slowly. When we were up a couple of weeks ago, I had to stop a lot because my arms were going to fall off, so maybe it’s not as straight forward as i’m remembering! Selective memory I think. I just love the fact that it’s doable on a HT and you can actually ride bits of it smoothly. But yeah, the middle third is a bugger on a HT and I probably look like a lost tourist on it 🙂

All you need to say is:

Be honest, how confident on a bike are you, taking into consideration that some of the trails you will ride are steep, exposed, rocky and remote? Remember, we will find out!
1 – not very but willing to give it a go
2 – quite confident but may struggle at times
3 – pretty confident but I’m not going to set the World alight
4 – confident rider, happy to give most things a go
5 – happy to ride anything you throw at me
6 – are you kidding? I ride Hebden Gnarl on my RIG

Just go with whatever gets you on the la varda ride and grow some balls!

peterfile – Member

Oooooh! Defining things is a fun thing that law goons like to do!

I assume you’ve invoiced him for that post 🙄

😉

I should have added:

7 – I am bland, I am the Godhead.

All you need to say is:

[/quote]Be honest, how confident on a bike are you, taking into consideration that some of the trails you will ride are steep, exposed, rocky and remote? Remember, we will find out!
1 – not very but willing to give it a go
2 – quite confident but may struggle at times
3 – pretty confident but I’m not going to set the World alight
4 – confident rider, happy to give most things a go
5 – happy to ride anything you throw at me
6 – are you kidding? I ride Hebden Gnarl on my RIG

really. I could be anywhere on their. I think 2- would describe everyone, even Danny Mcaskill. As would 3- and 4-. Infact how is 4- harder than 3-. It needs to reference trails surely

Only read the thread title and haven’t opened the link ( 😉 ) but what has all this got to do with train spotting guides?

9. I own a trick carbon Nomad and shred the Surrey hills.

7 borrowdale bash and whinlater 😆

Only read the thread title and haven’t opened the link ( ) but what has all this got to do with train spotting guides?

🙂

For what it’s worth I think it works well.

My group are fairly close in level we marked ourselves as a 3 a 4 on a very good day.

After a hour we were bump to a 5 and a change of guide. Apparently the group we left were much happier without us lot hassling them along.

So I think the system works!

Stopadoodledoo – Member
I should have added:
7 – I am bland, I am the Godhead.
POSTED 3 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Actually reading back through you better go 2 or 3 to be on the safe side

Have you thought about the PDS? I heard the trails were a lot better there!

Is Hora a train driver?

Oh you have, seemingly for ten years plus, unlucky!

I’m guessing that you are a bit simple, bland?

I’m right, aren’t I. Thing is, you probably don’t even realise.

Choo choo!