http://www.trailaddiction.com/pdf/guide_grouping_levels.pdf

Am I missing something here? Are they really saying that the natural riding in the Lakes, Peaks and Wales is equivalent to a trail centre Black run but not that at Laggan, and that Hebden Bridge is the pinnacle of technical trail riding in the UK?

It’s obviously just a guideline… But yeah, Laggan black is a step above most UK blacks. I like the way they deride most uk reds with a single line- everything not glentress or afan is basically a fire road 😉 Hebden Bridge I can’t comment on, not ridden there. but at the end of the day it’s always going to be a fudge, and even if you had the perfect system, people would still fib. So it’ll be an indicator, then they’ll watch the riders in action too- just a starting point.

Whiterooms have a sort of similiar thing, which IIRC also has a wee “about me” box. I ended up saying something like “I am quite fit but I’d rather not waste my holidays riding up mountains, I’ve raced downhill at fort bill but don’t assume that means I’m any good” 😉

That’s why on the first day all the groups ride in reasonable proximity of each other, so the guides can assess who’s been billy big boll*cks on the paperwork, but can’t ride for toffee, so gets bumped down a few groups.

Likewise those who are better than they came across can be bumped up accordingly.

Laggan above Lakes dunt make sense,seeing as its made and designed to be rode on a bike.

and Hebden above lakes aint right either

think it must be a typing error 🙂

Laggan may be steep but would you place it above the trails in the Lakes, Peaks and Wales in technicality?

Maybe they went to the Lakes and just rode Loughrigg Terrace.

Regardless of whether people over-exaggerate their abilities or whether they decide for themselves, the ratings on the guidelines are make-believe. I’m not arguing about how they themselves judge people’s riding or whether everyone out there would put themselves as a 6.

I don’t see what is wrong with it. It gives a good initial assessment for them prior to the groups arrival and then allows less time wasting on the first day as you have already filtered people into similar ability groups.

How is telling people that riding something like Grisedale Tarn down to Glenridding is equivalent to your average Black run not flawed?

Stopadoodledoo – Member

Laggan may be steep but would you place it above the trails in the Lakes, Peaks and Wales in technicality?

What, all of them 😕

They’ve made a call based on what they see as typical lakeland/peaks riding, not the hardest possible. Sure there’s super-gnar stuff but most people aren’t riding it so when Johnny Q Sundayrider says “Oh yeah, I’ve ridden in the lakes” it’s got to be taken with that light. Think of it as lowest common denominators maybe, not the ends of the bellcurve.

northwind

then they need to take Hebbers away from the top then dont they and put next to lakes n peaks

True, but even something like the Kentmere side of Garburn, which a hell of a lot of visitors to the Lakes have ridden, is surely still above most trail centre black runs?

They have steps in Hebden, Blower; steps. Sometimes they can be a bit wet and slippy.

Blower – Member

then they need to take Hebbers away from the top then dont they and put next to lakes n peaks

Maybe. Or maybe it works for them and they don’t need to change a thing. Probably they’re better judges…

Maybe it works for them because they totally ignore what has been put down on people’s forms

And they don’t even mention the trail behind the Nationwide in Swindon….

Can’t please everyone. The fact that they have so many different groups, guides etc and go to so much trouble to ensure everyone is with equal ability riders and that they don’t get taken down something on the first day which is likely to cause injury is much better than a lot of companies out there. I would take that as a big positive.

I put us down as a tech 5. Some mistake was made as we ended up with a female guide !

(OK, she races DH world cups and is into knives, but nevertheless…)

But seriously, she sussed us out pretty quick, kept us out of the park stuff and hit the locals stuff & steep bits.

I’m sure they are well aware that anyone that says they heard about the company on STW will list themselves as a 6 but in reality be closer to a 3.

They are also probably very aware that people on here are good at missing the point; I’m not talking about their ability to judge how shit you are at riding, just the examples of trails given against the ratings.

Northwind – Member

Blower – Member

then they need to take Hebbers away from the top then dont they and put next to lakes n peaks

Maybe. Or maybe it works for them and they don’t need to change a thing. Probably they’re better judges…

judges of what UK riding is?

Having rode there and the UK comparisons I’d say its a good comparison, by Heiden they mean the damn technical rocky stuff and I’d liken that to la varda and Lagan black

I’m scared to go to Hebden Bridge now.

Having rode there and the UK comparisons I’d say its a good comparison, by Heiden they mean the damn technical rocky stuff and I’d liken that to la varda and Lagan black

you need to get out more, mate

Blower – Member

judges of what UK riding is?

No… Judges of how useful the answers to the questions are to them. It’s not like they’re trying to produce a UK trails scoreboard.

Am I missing something here, you’re complaining about the tool that they use to do a basic sort on the Sunday morning shakedown and then move people about, on a technicality?

I mean you clearly understand the purpose and the procedure, it’s just the location of Hebden Bridge on their description level….and you think other people need to get out more?

Today’s self aware award goes to…..

To an extent they have though. Hora rides around Hebden Bridge a fair bit; does that mean that going from trail comparisons, he should classify himself as a 6?

Did you think you were a 6 but they classified you as a 3 after day one? 😆

The thing I find most surprising is that Nevis DH is given the highest technical rating? I don’t think it’s particularly technical at all, the red is probably more technical.

As for the Lakes debate, I don’t think they’re tying to have a pop at you, just looking at an average day out and saying “if you’re happy riding Lakes routes then you’ll be fine on level 4 in the alps”

Clearly, if you’re a complete riding god and can manual down the most super douper techy routes in the lakes, you don’t really need a guide to tell you what trails you can get down in the alps.

It’s for people who’ve never been before, there’s no way to compare otherwise.

I doubt it was designed to highlight the differences between UK trails and make people all upset 🙂

peterfile – Member

The thing I find most surprising is that Nevis DH is given the highest technical rating? I don’t think it’s particularly technical at all, the red is probably more technical.

At a guess, that’s just the highest level they’re interested in- bell curves again, their holidays won’t be pitched at people who only break a sweat while frontflipping down glencoe on a unicycle so once you get past this level, they don’t really need to know.

peterfile – Member

The thing I find most surprising is that Nevis DH is given the highest technical rating? I don’t think it’s particularly technical at all, the red is probably more technical.

I suppose it also depends on how you ride a trail. Are you making it down or able to smash out 8-10 runs a day at around 5-6 mins each?

I find riding the red much easier than trying to hit the WC trail all day. (The red’s just tighter and more nadgery imo)

At a guess, that’s just the highest level they’re interested in- bell curves again, their holidays won’t be pitched at people who only break a sweat while frontflipping down glencoe on a unicycle so once you get past this level, they don’t really need to know.

Aye, sorry i wasn’t very clear. I just meant that compared to the other trails they mention, specifically Laggan, Nevis DH isn’t really very “technical”. Fast and with a huge crash potential, yes, but massively technical? I know a few people who are happy to spend all day on the DH but won’t go near the red.

But yeah, I guess if you’re used to hooning it 8 runs a day at Nevis DH there’s not going to be much that will concern you elsewhere 🙂

I suppose it also depends on how you ride a trail. Are you making it down or able to smash out 8-10 runs a day at around 5-6 mins each?

I find riding the red much easier than trying to hit the WC trail all day. (The red’s just tighter and more nadgery imo)

I can do a fair bit of the DH quite quickly, but I seem to go flying on the red when I try brakes off in much of the rocky sections. I suppose the technical difficulties on the red are more sustained, whereas the WC track is built for speed so the difficulties are more spaced out so it feels like there’s more “flow” to it and that can make it a bit less techy feeling.

“Flow” is the last word I’d use to describe how i ride the red 🙂
Laggan is designed really well though, despite it’s difficulties you can really get a rhythm going.

So where are folk then on the scale? FWIW in UK terms I’m somewhere between 4 and a 5, but haven’t been to Hebden or Fort Bill. Ridden Rangers plenty but there’s that section which is beyond me. Don’t think I’ve heard of Miner’s Strike or Mont Jovet Creek section but have ridden the others on level 6 (with muchos mincing, dabbing and one or two dismounts on the others, e.g. La Varda).

perhaps the Hebden Bridge entry was strategic marketing as they knew it would spawn a few WTF threads on this here forum. Or perhaps Grumpy Mark paid to have it put in there.

Well Stopadoodledoo I managed the third fastest time on strava for la varda on the last day with a hangover, 1 min behind Ali from trail addiction who has no doubt rode it plenty so maybe I don’t!

Anyone ever been on a riding trip, put in the wrong group and not been challenged/had a good time?

So where are folk then on the scale?

I’m a 3. On a good day!

On that scale I put myself at a five however I went with my GF who put herself at two on their scale, TA pretty much found enough stuff that kept me happy and didn’t scare the beejesus out of my GF*

* apart from day one when she very nearly came close to jacking it all in( and me) 😆

Never ridden Hebden Bridge, have ridden behind the Nationwide at Swindon

Well Stopadoodledoo I managed the third fastest time on strava for la varda on the last day with a hangover, 1 min behind Ali from trail addiction who has no doubt rode it plenty so maybe I don’t!

😀

Go you!

Some people I ride with went this year. He put himself down as a 6, and the top group only had 4 people in it at the end of the week. His Mrs started in a higher group, then dropped down. Not because of the technicality of the trails, but because of the pace they were riding everything at, all day. They seemed to enjoy it on the whole.

The guide they had made reference to it being unusual to have his rear wheel buzzed all week by guests, down and up.

He’s a quick rider though, to be fair.

scruff – Member
I put us down as a tech 5. Some mistake was made as we ended up with a female guide !
(OK, she races DH world cups and is into knives, but nevertheless…)
But seriously, she sussed us out pretty quick, kept us out of the park stuff and hit the locals stuff & steep bits.

I bet she spanked you little a ginger step-child 😉

Which method does your guide company use stopadoodle do ?