I can totally understand the no brakes thing, there’s nothing you’d need to brake for on an enclosed oval, but why fixed? on the face of it it makes no sense Is it just “because” or is there some reason behind it?

Control of speed.
Safety.
And because.

it all started with fixed bike, so tradition ?

back in down tube shifter days, would you want to reach down at 40 km a hour to change gear.

no thanks

Plenty of times on a track I’ve wanted to brake!

Plenty of times I’ve wanted to coast as well, so a shame about the freewheel.

yeah, i get why you wouldn’t want gears! but a single speed freewheel how is that dangerous?

Efficiency and even less to go wrong or break.

The amount of power some of them are putting down they’d probably break the pawls in a freewheel.

Plenty of times on a track I’ve wanted to brake!

Then the rider behind wipes you out.

yeah, i get why you wouldn’t want gears! but a single speed freewheel how is that dangerous?

Because then you need brakes?

Eh? why would you “need” brakes if you have a freewheel?

I mean when these guys slow up after a race, they just soft pedal, right? They don’t put any effort in. so how s stopping pedalling and letting the bike slow down any different to that?

Efficiency and even less to go wrong or break.

huh, that at least makes sense.

Eh? why would you “need” brakes if you have a freewheel?

I mean when these guys slow up after a race, they just soft pedal, right? They don’t put any effort in. so how s stopping pedalling and letting the bike slow down any different to that?

How would you stop a bike with a freewheel? Especially with the (lack of) rolling resistance from a tubular at 200psi, you’d be still going round for a very long time and then have to crash land into the barrier to finally stop rather than just put a bit of back pressure.

Also, you couldn’t track stand. A fairly fundamental skill for track riding!

Controlling how fast people can slow down matters, the women demonstrated the issue in one of the keirin rounds. Having large groups cycling so close together needs everyone effectively riding the same way all the time

ah, cool, thanks, everyday’s a school day!

I mean when these guys slow up after a race, they just soft pedal, right? They don’t put any effort in. so how s stopping pedalling and letting the bike slow down any different to that?

You can’t control your slowing down speed with a freewheel. If you have a freewheel, you’d need brakes; if you have brakes, it’d be lethal!

Also, you couldn’t track stand

I can track stand just fine with a freehub

I can too, but I do use my brakes. and i don’t think I could on a slope without brakes!

I can track stand just fine with a freehub

Without brakes?

1) You couldn’t come to a stop in the first place.

2)Every time you corrected your ballance the bikes going to start moving again.

The whole point of a track stand is to come to a stop, preferably as close to the top of the banking as possible, and force your opponent to roll past.

Track standing is easier on a slope, and yeah – I can track stand fine with a freehub.

Without brakes?

Yep.

Okay, I use brakes to stop. But once I’m in a track stand, I rarely touch my brakes.

Yep.

You can enjoy being the lead out man for the winner in a sprint then 😉

Why? Because you’re trying to go as fast as possible and then some. How long do you think a set of free-hub pawls would last when treated to a full on Chris Hoy ( in his prime with those humungous thighs and 2500W and 700Nm of torque..) 3 lap sprint from a standing start? The poor free-hub would be reduced to shrapnel in about 5 seconds…

Also it’s a right laugh (occasionally terrifyingly so) to ride fixies on velodrome track 🙂

How long do you think a set of free-hub pawls would last when treated to a full on Chris Hoy ( in his prime with those humungous thighs and 2500W and 700Nm of torque..) 3 lap sprint from a standing start?

I reckon they’d be fine. BMX freehubs don’t explode on a regular basis.

Plenty of times on a track I’ve wanted to brake!

Then the rider behind wipes you out.

I know next to nothing about track cycling but Indycars, Nascars etc all have brakes when they race on ovals and they often manage to avoid an accident by braking, and without anyone else piling into them

I reckon they’d be fine. BMX freehubs don’t explode on a regular basis.

20″ Vs 700c wheel, there’s less torque in a BMX (or rather you might be able to apply the same torque, but there’s less reacting against it).

And BMX riders aren’t track sprinters.

Okay, I use brakes to stop. But once I’m in a track stand, I rarely touch my brakes.

Also, missed this bit. You track stand facing down the track because your COG is above it. You roll upto the top, stop the bike, roll down to put the bike at an angle then turn the bars back up.

If you tried to do it facing up the track (even if you had managed to stop somehow) your opponent would just leave your for dead as they’d have several bike lengths on you (enoug to break the slipstream) before you’d had chance to turn back down the track.

So freehubs –
Probably going to be less reliable
Not going to be available in smaller sizes
You’re going to lose a sprint as soon as your opponent trackstands.
You’re going to be a liability in bunch events each time you back off and coast.
Then after the event you’re unable to stop the bike.

Why do you want to use a freehub on a track event?

know next to nothing about track cycling

Good place to start

but Indycars, Nascars etc all have brakes when they race on ovals and they often manage to avoid an accident by braking, and without anyone else piling into them

That’s fine for cars, we are talking about cycles.

It’s all about how the speed of the cycle is controlled, free wheel with no brakes and you can’t stop, add brakes and you can stop too quickly

A former rather well regarded track ride explained to me that a lot of the reason for fixed gear is the ability to finely control speed. And the lack of brakes is because you don’t need them.

crazy-legs
Full Member

You can’t control your slowing down speed with a freewheel. If you have a freewheel, you’d need brakes; if you have brakes, it’d be lethal!

Time to spice up track cycling with back-pedal rear brakes

And BMX riders aren’t track sprinters

Google ‘Chris Hoy’s thighs’, then Google Kye White for visual confirmation that this is definitely so. BMXers can put some power down, definitely, but the top track sprinters? Totally different league.

Contrary to popular belief, track riding is not all flat out all the time.

A former rather well regarded track ride explained to me that a lot of the reason for fixed gear is the ability to finely control speed. And the lack of brakes is because you don’t need them.

This is very true. I’ve been riding fixed gear exclusively on the road for several years now and, with a bit of practice, back-pedal braking becomes second nature and the ability on the track to go between sprinting and tempo riding is quite important in disciplines like the elimination races.

The bank isn’t consistant on a velodrome and it’s much steeper in the bends. Like ALOT steeper. Touch a brake on them, you’re coming down, coast in with not enough speed, you’re coming down.

Also. Even off the track, fixed gear is much more comfortable than a singlespeed, fixed keeps a positive pressure on the pedals (either you or the pedals depending on effort) it’s very very easy to pedal at a high cadence on a fixed gear when you’d be stuck catching up with the freewheel. On a track this is more significant because there’s nothing to stop top speed*

*Ish obviously there is plenty to stop you but you will spin out very quickly on even quite a high gear.

And you need to be able to control your speed to get off because trying to get off anywhere but the straight will get hurry.

Yeh I think it’s also about even pressure at all times, which leads to more grip for the tyres- if you freewheeled into the banking or touched your brake you’d come down potentially- whereas with fixed you can ride quite slow but because the pressure is very even you keep grip.
We tried riding freewheel singlespeeds for a giggle once and it didn’t work and the GB sprinters did briefly use them for standing starts to work on gaps in the stroke of their power- but they had a closed track to slowly freewheel round and a coach to catch them when it was time to stop!
Also it’s worth noting that top bmx riders had higher max power scores than top track sprinters- Marcus Bloomfield topped the chart around Beijing time (I think, might have Olympic cycles wrong) over team sprint man 1 Jamie Staff who obviously was also a bmx rider in the past, and a good few watts more than Chris Hoy who was aiming at longer efforts and slightly easier start as man 3 uses the bank a little and gets some draft up to max speed.

There is no technical reason why a freewheel could not be made strong enough.

Not that that has anything to do with why track is fixed gear only

I suspect if freewheels were used at the beginning the whole sport would have developed differently but we are where we are

genuinely fascinating stuff @lankysprinter thanks!

Yep a freewheel could be used, brakes could be used, even gears could probably be used but that would not be fixed gear track riding would it – simple as that.

If it did you wouldn’t have indoor wooden tracks- it’s almost impossible to get round on a freewheel! Outdoor tarmac and concrete which are bigger and less steep are fine, but indoor wood 250m or less tracks wouldn’t work.

You’ve hit on my very niche knowledge area with this question. I have no further threads to make useful comments on but ask me about track all day!

I’m not sure I’m bought into the grip and banking thing. Afterall mtb and bmx can do similar if not more severe (someone find that photo of the track rider riding vertical advertising hoarding though!)

I do agree that bmx have the biggest numbers. I’m sure it was on one of those BBC olympic programs.

I assume track riders need to control their speed to some extent. Sprint can be faster and slower through a race. I guess the bunch racing events also. Coasting to slow down would change the dynamics.

I’d say it’s mostly about tradition and origins though. Look at CX, there’s no way that they are the fastest bikes for the terrain but it’s the rules.

The reason for fixed on the track is simply to provide the ability to slow down… once brakes are removed then you NEED the ability to both gently retard speed to maintain track position and follow riders in front accurately and also actually a slow down to a stop.

I did once unclip both feet prior to coming to a stop thinking to try putting a foot down like on a normal bike and even at walking pace it’s scary as you suddenly have zero control and just coast on and on and on… high pressure slicks on a wooden track have very little rolling resistance.

I may clarify that the guy who told me about track riding has won 5 Olympic Gold medals and 7 World Champion medals. Although at the time he was only a World, European and British champion.

Having been on the velodrome for the first time in ages yesterday, all I can say to anyone who questions the banking/grip/need for fixed or no brakes, get on an intro day! Seriously it’s a blast.

Calshot, 45 degree banking with 7 strangers… plenty of speed adjustment on the legs/pedals, it would have been carnage if someone could brake or even freewheel.

Small wooden tracks are very different to large outdoor cement/tarmac tracks…

Because it scares off the triathletes 😉

Madeupname I used to race at Calshot in the 80s, been back for a couple of sessions since. Exhilarating & terrifying at the same time, hit the bends at full speed and there’s enough g force to make it a strain to keep your head up.

Hope you enjoyed it! Its still a great facility

To be fair, the triathlete of our group was one of the fastest learners.

But it might be everyone else was ‘handicapped’ by testosterone