Anyone done it or used a coach? Going to spend some time workign on my swimming and not sure whether to pursue TI or just get a regular coach?

Interested to hear any experiences!

Got the book and skim read bits to get the gist of it, basically it’s all about the glide between strokes and being as long as possible in your body and arms. It does seem to work! Quicker for less perceived effort and It looks and feels elegant, if that makes sense. If I wasn’t so tightfisted I’d’ve paid for a TI coaching session to improve further. There is more to it than what I’ve said!

Is it the swimming equivalent of Chi Running then?

Kind of, except while in running their are detractors about chi running etc, in swimming no one argues against the fact that efficiency is the most effective and important element, there are just different methods to achieve it.

I was actually looking at TI coaching weekends this morning, was a bit taken aback by the price, but as I have signed up to do an ironman next year am seriously considering it, so would also be interested in others experiences.

How do you breathe? 😀

TI is very helpful in drilling coordination and efficiency. However, a common feature of TI swimmers is that an over emphasis on efficiency results in over-gliding with inefficient dead spots in the stroke. Ti is great for getting poor swimmers into good technique but many people then plateau around the 27-30m 1500m mark largely due to over-gliding.

I use some TI drills but much prefer Swimsmooth approach – go and read what they say about overgliders!

for a 3.8k swim, the efficiency of TI may help but for HIM and lower distance its too easy to overglide IMO

That’s actually quite interesting, reading the swimsmooth stuff, I reckon I am classic overglider.

I’m just a sh1t swimmer looking to get better – do I need to worry about all this, get a TI coach or any old coach? I’m guessing all modern swim coaches are about efficiency etc and TI is just one ‘stream’ or method of teaching this?

MSP – how nice, we are finally in agreement on something!! I am too and used to be on their videos! It is common to lots of people who follow TI. I am a big fan of SS largely because they are not dogmatic and adapt their ideas to different swim types. I love parts of TI but get irritated by the demonic way it gets interpreted.

There used to be massive swim arguments on tri website largely in reaction to a (very sadly late) TI coach in the UK. He added huge amounts to swimming but not without a lot of heated arguments!!

Damo – by the sounds of it, any qualified coach should do. But ask them first, “do you teach the S-shaped pull.” If yes, smile and go away and look for someone else!

I’ve often thought of getting some coaching. I consider myself reasonably fit, and an ‘able’ swimmer, but I am sh@**ed out after about 100mtrs.

Not sure if I could handle being told what I’m doing wrong when standing up to my neck in water wearing a single piece of clothing though…

In the youtube clips on the Chinese swimmer doing the 1500m, his stroke looks ‘awkward’ but after trying it myself it works. All swimming tips greatly received as myself and 4 others are swimming the Channel next year!

ive got back in the pool this year after years without swimming, and realised that I had to learn all over again.

With a few pointers I picked up on SS/TI , I managed 1500m open water within a month, something I thought I was miles off just a couple months ago.

I find my TI form wanes once I try to pick my speed up and tension starts to creep in, but am managing 30min 1500’s at the moment and I think I could get sub 28 tomorrow if I went for it.
Not exactly setting the world on fire, but a huge step forward for me.

Relax, swim ‘long’ & enjoy.

I found total immersion brilliant for getting from not being able to swim crawl (I think I could do about 100 metres continuously) to being able to swim for a decent distance.

I do think the swim smooth point about overgliding, and gaps in strokes is a good one though – I think the Total Immersion book does mention it a teeny bit, and it is pretty clear that you have to balance stroke rate and stroke length to get optimimum speed but the focus of the drills and things is very much on stroke length.

Right now I’m swimming with a triathlon club where both the coaches are swim smooth fans; much of the stuff is the same, but I’m finding with a bit of focus on consistent stroke rhythm and slightly upping my stroke rate I am speeding up a fair bit (although I’m only at 7:04 for 400 metres right now, so I am by no means a fast swimmer).

Also, if you’re not made of money, you could try some club coached sessions – obviously you don’t get the one to one tuition of a fancy coached session, but at 4 quid or so a go, you can’t really lose out; you may also get access to individual coaching cheaper through clubs – for example a very experienced coach who works with our club also does video stroke analysis clinics which are about £40 or so for club members which is a bit of a bargain, and the other coach runs ‘learn to swim crawl’ sessions for people who are really beginning crawl.

I’m in a triathlon club, not really because I’m desperate to do a triathlon, but the swim sessions are a bit less full on (and assume you have less free time) than joining a swimming club; also because triathletes are often poor swimmers to begin with, they don’t make many assumptions about how good a level you’ll be starting at – we have people who take pretty close to 10 minutes for 400m, and people who are well under 5 minutes on a good day.

As a really lazy swimmer that crashes into the wall regularly whilst daydreaming I prefer swimsmooth. There’s always a hand out in front to protect my head (as with TI) and breathing happens without concentrating on when. I can speed up if I concentrate as triathlon times show.

If you do go for it, the video/dvd is a lot better than the book.

My opinion: if you’re a poor swimmer it’s definitely worthwhile, you will get a lot better, even if the end result may be too much gliding.

OP… There are some excellent posts above struggling to add anything to them… Joemarshall, make some excellent points… there are one or two “just” swimmmers in my tri-club and they are made more than welcome.

Have done a couple of 1-on-1 TI coached sessions (I’m not made of money, just thought it would be money well spent over £150 on “more” bike) … it without question helped, especially seeing video of yourself under the water.

Not been on a swim smooth session, but have a DVD…. I’d say for resources… from books and DVDs to loads fo free stuff on the web and youtube …. SS is the way to go.

And as a swimming tip and the biggest lession I learnt… Keep you bum and legs “high” in the water.

Good luck… swimming is great, especially for clearing the mind… as you try and concentrate on every little part of your body to go faster through the water.

Damo, my mate entered me for the GNS as a Christmas present. I hadn’t swum for nearly 15 years, and was blown out after just 25m of crawl.

I went to TI sessions at a nearby pool, and literally within 3 weeks (6 coached sessions) I was doing 60+ lengths and not feeling too tired at all. Granted, I’ve got no pace; doing a mile in about 40 mins, so it is more like a jog than a run I guess.

My strokes / 25m dropped from about 27 down to 19 too. Lessons were only £4.50.
Where are you based?

I really need to do something like this. Time to start looking for coaching at a sensible time and a sensible distance from my place I think.

Damo – out of interest, how many strokes do you take for 25m? This will give you an immediate guide as to whether TI will be helpful or not?

@Orman – based in Brighton and actually just found a TI coach for 1-1 which I think I may give a go for a similar amount of sessions as you.

@thm – no idea! I did a couple of 25m lengths on holiday and that was my limit, my problem is I have do swim really hard just to stay afloat!

Personally I think that the TI method is only really good if you’re starting from a low base and it is extremely important that you learn the whole method… it’s not just about decreasing your stroke rate!

I went on a SwimSmooth training day a couple of weeks back… I thought it was excellent… especially the video analysis.
I prefer SS as they seem more accepting that there is a vast array of body shapes and that this is bound to have an impact on your swimming.

Look at some videos of top swimmers and triathletes on YouTube… Harry Wiltshire sure can swim but doesn’t look anything like TI!

my problem is I have do swim really hard just to stay afloat!

Buy a DVD if you’re starting from there… the coaching will be a waste of money IMO. It’s like learning to drive. No point in paying loads of money to someone to help you find the clutches bite point.

Well that sounds like a lot of TI stuff would help you – ie being able to float, body co-ordination, breathing and swimming with confidence. Ignore some of the mumbo jumbo that goes with it and try some of their drills. When my co-ordination breaks down, I still go back to one of their original switch drills.

Swimsmooth has just published a new book distilling all their knowledge. I know these guys and have attended their course. IMO they are the best BY FAR. But, it sounds that all you need at the moment is to find a teacher to get the basics sorted and your confidence in the water up. Dont overcomplicate things too much. Get a teacher, get in the pool and have some fun.

(TSY – you are starting the infamous, is TI suitable for OW debate – oh no……!!!)

THM – I know 🙂

(and it isn’t)

I went from doing 25m and nearly passing out to being able to do 60+ lengths in the space of three one hour visits to the pool on the back of reading about the TI principles and trying to implement them – this was before I bought the book.

Don’t get me wrong – I am around 40-50 seconds per 25m and my stroke count is around 23-25 when I first start off, dropping to around 28 as I get tired – but the point is, I could hardly do one length before reading up on TI.

Miraculous. The superman drills are helping with my balance as well as my legs sink like a stone. I love swimming now whereas previously I couldn’t think of anything worse.

Need to check out swim smooth – never heard of that one.

p.s. I got the book for around 3 quid off ebay – can’t go wrong

I had £4.50 lessons at New Mills swimming pool. It’s not exactly 1:1, as there are about 20 people there, but for your first few visits it’s intensive enough. The coach probably spends ¾ of his time with first timers, and it tapers off as you get more proficient. Well worth it. he builds up from very basic drills that seem pointless, but then it all makes sense. Much better than reading a book, for me at least.
I started swimming in Salford Quays recently, until the local scallies started throwing bottles at me. I now go to Boundary Park in Holmes Chapel, which is a superb venue for novice open water swimmers. Have a look at http://www.uswimopenwater.com

You swam in Salford Quays! 😯

Did the biological warfare suit not make it a tad difficult?

Well booked 1.5 hour intro/coaching session next week!

Salford Quays isn’t so bad nowadays. They have an aerated dock that gets monitored regularly. Although it may be littered with cars and dead bodies, at least if Coronation Street is anything to go by.

But ask them first, “do you teach the S-shaped pull.” If yes, smile and go away and look for someone else!

So, what is the thinking\style now? It’s been a while..

It’s interesting to read how SS and TI have helped people improve technique and the ability to swim greater distances.

I’m a Life Saving teacher with my local club. Thankfully it’s not about swim technique, more about water skills and confidence. FWIW I struggle to do more than 25m crawl. I’m a natural leg sinker and have trouble breathing unless I roll on to my side, which in turn aids leg sink. Breaststroke or sidestroke I can do 60+ 25m lengths in an hour.

The only way I could swim crawl was to go flat out. But since I’ve started to relax and slow down, my technique has improved, but I still suffer from leg sink. The first 2 strokes after breathing are just to get my legs back up.

I might explore some coaching to try to improve my ability to float.

http://www.swimsmooth.com/contentious.html

Point 2 discusses the S-shaped pull

I had some lessons in ‘art of swimming’ which is pretty similar to TI. dropped from 23 ish stokes per 25m to 17/18 and much less effort. They have teachers all over the place – you may need to pay full whack first few lessons which are booked centrally, but could then do a deal with the teacher..

This commonly leads to shoulder injuries

how do I say F*** F*** F***

Well just had first coaching session and it was a real revelation, spent an hour and a half going through the theory and working on some drills but I can see already the logic behind the principles and how, even after 1 session my swimming is so much better.

Best coaching money I’ve ever spent! Planning to practice 2/3 times a week and then weekly coach session. Chuffed!

Since this thread started I’ve had antoher look at the Swimsmooth (SS) site and talked with a TI advocate in the lane. I’ve spent half a dozen sessions spending half the time working on each.

I consider myself a moderately lousy and extremely lazy triathlon swimmer with 3.8km swim times between 1h02 and 1h12 ten years ago. When working on SS I concentrate on: “elbows high, reach over the barrel, catch, pull”. When working on TI I can’t concentrate on all the elements at the same time so work on arm/leg conordination; head position/arm driving in above the head to break the water; arm timing/glide phase.

The verdict:

SS: 20 pulls per 25m decreasing to 19 when I accelerate, easy to see where I’m going and add a sighting stroke, legs do their own thing, no undue discomfort or prematurely fatiguing muscles. Speed depends on efort/concentration.

TI: 18 pulls per 25m, my left shoulder soon objects to being so close to my head, my brain struggles to maintain the leg coordination. But, at low effort levels it’s faster by one or two seconds a length than SS. At present my cordination breaks down as I try to pick up the pace and I end up back in SS mode. Perhaps worth working on TI a bit more to see if I can maintain the coordination as I pick up the pace.

I can’t be sure I’m not making more effort when using TI but the results are promising rather than catastrophic.

Hi all,

My boyfriend Ben recently stumbled on this and showed me. I’m Louise not Ben but he allowed me to log in on his log in so I could reply, just this once.

I was a competitive swimmer until the age of 17. I’ve recently gone ‘back to swimming’ training for a channel attempt, and I don’t think I’ll be going back to the pool, (yawn) I enjoy open water too much!!!
I was trained at the club the Total Immersion way, from the age of about 14, and still consider it the best way.

The ‘over-emphasis on glide’ topic is ever debated. This is a completely false aspect of TI to some extent. You may have so called ‘dead spots’ in your stroke whilst you are still changing your technique but this should become smoother with more practice. If you are finding you are still getting these ‘dead spots’ then you need more practice!

If your TI form wanes when you try to pick up speed, you need to go back to breaking your stroke down into drills again, until the technique is so ingrained in your muscle memory you are no longer having to think about it. It should not wane when you pick up speed, if it does, again you need more practice.

Being a ‘lazy swimmer’ is the best kind of swimmer!

Instead of keeping your ‘bum and legs’ high in the water, try pressing down at the chest. This should bring your hips up automatically.

I am an example of someone who started TI from a competitive point. I was already a proficient swimmer, but TI helped me become efficient and knock seconds off of my personal bests. You do have to go into it knowing you can spend the time breaking down the stroke into its drills and practicing them, before you are going to be speeding along again. It is not a quick fix. But what quality training is a quick fix.

I don’t really understand why TI is always debated as unsuitable for open water swimmers. It might be the age old thing that when swimming open water you have to sight to stay in a straight line/know where you are going. But if you are swimming TI well you shouldn’t need to sight as often, because you will be swimming straight, and this should make it even easier on you as sighting is a lot of effort! Or maybe it’s about the conditions of the water, waves etc. I don’t know. But I have never had a problem, and I’ve swum in the sea and lakes (pretty much whatever the weather!) I think it has a lot to do with feeling comfortable in the water. I don’t swim open water in a wetsuit, which creates a bit of panic in the spotters on a Wednesday night at the lake, because I’m so low in the water, don’t put my head up very often (good sneaky breathing!) I wear a really bright coloured swim hat!

When training the TI way, you shouldn’t be thinking about all the elements at the same time. My coach always told me to be a thoughtful swimmer. Don’t just swim up and down. Have a focus on each length. So don’t think about everything at once, you can’t, and it will just mess up your stroke. Think about one thing you are working on, and just that one thing. Don’t worry that because you are focusing on hand entry, you drop your hips a little, so what! It’ll come together eventually.

You should not get shoulder problems from swimming the TI way. The arm cycle is very relaxed and open. Almost like reaching out to the sides of the pool as you swim down the pool. If you are getting shoulder injuries, you’re not swimming TI!

My coach was my father and the head coach of Total Immersion UK, Ian Smith. He died very suddenly in November last year. He would always say:

“Perfect practice, makes perfect”

TI is going through a transitionary period, so you will have to bear with them whilst they have a re-organisation after his death. If you email, it’ll probably be me who responds and you will not get an immediate response at the moment.

Keep on debating, Dad liked a good debate!

Thank you,

Louise Smith
xx