Toobless on an On One Fatty Trail….

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  • Toobless on an On One Fatty Trail….
  • motozulu
    Member

    Anyone on here done it? if so any pointers please?

    Absolutely love the bike (which is a good job as it is now my only bike) but am desperate to go tubeless, carrying two 560gr inners around isn’t much fun nor is the thought of wrestling fat tyres off trail side – either!

    I know there are vids out there but none for the Emmental rims? Got the JJ’s on which are tubeless ready (I think) so it’s just a modus operandi I could do with.

    Ta muchly.

    Denis99
    Member

    Can’t help with setting up those wheels for tubeless, but if you are going to go tubeless this time of year I would recommend that you put a different front tyre on.

    I had a Jumbo Jim on the front until very recently.

    It will wash out very easily in winter conditions, something with a bit more bite is needed. JJ are great as a fast rolling summer(ish) front tyre though.

    I fitted a 45nrth tyre, plenty of grip up front now.

    Premier Icon ian-r
    Subscriber

    Used a split baby fat inner tube with a bit of thin foam in the rim recess. Went up first time and have had no issues since (touch wood)..

    Lester
    Member

    ive tubelessed quite a few fatty tyres, I gave up on the ementhal rims. i didnt try split tube as i was trying to save weight not just save puntures. and ive got a 50 litre compressor.
    if you do manage it with a split tube method, let me know please 🙂

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Used a split baby fat inner tube with a bit of thin foam in the rim recess. Went up first time and have had no issues since (touch wood)..

    +1

    Wrap something over the rim to cover the holes (inside out 50mm electrical tape, bondage tape, inside out duct tape).

    Cut up a yoga mat into 75mm strips (yoga mats being slightly thinner than camping mats, but anything like that will probably work) and tape the foam into the rim. Decathlon sell them for £1.99.

    Split an inner tube, I used a 22″ tube from decathlon as they’re a more normal (~150g) weight.

    Put the tyre on with 80-90ml of sealant (some people advocate going crazy with whole bottles, but it’s only 2x wider than a normal tyre, and it’s the tread area it has to coat) and inflate.

    It’s still ~300g of stuff going in (sealant, split tube, foam) but it is a weight saving. If you want to save the weight of the tube have a look at “fatty strippers”.

    I bought some of those Vee baby fat innertubes last month to try ghetto tubeless at some point, on either the default Wazoo wheels, or the Fatty Front v1 and the rear Emmental. But I need to buy a tubeless kit to get around to this! 😆

    If you want to shed wheel weight and stayed tubed, buy at least a pair of Schwalbe SV13F tubes, it’s the cheapest ~750g of weight saving you will make over the default PX tubes!
    https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/inner-tubes/schwalbe-sv13f-xlight-fr-presta-tube-26-tyres-54559-to-75559/ is the cheapest price I know of for the tubes alone, but SJS do charge P&P (~£4?), so only really makes savings if you buy a few other bargain bits (I bought 3 sv13f and 3 sv19a to stick in the spares box just before Xmas).

    motozulu
    Member

    Blimey – sounds like a pigging nightmare. I’m going to go down the gorilla tape route I think – all this talk of taping foam into the bead? :(.

    I’ll look at getting a better front tyre then also, got to say though no probs so far on two wet and (fairly) rapid runs of the Dog at Cannock. I’ll look at fatty strippers too. Thanks all.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Blimey – sounds like a pigging nightmare. I’m going to go down the gorilla tape route I think – all this talk of taping foam into the bead? :(.

    I’ll look at getting a better front tyre then also, got to say though no probs so far on two wet and (fairly) rapid runs of the Dog at Cannock. I’ll look at fatty strippers too. Thanks all.

    It’s not a problem that can be solved with gorila/duck/gaffa tape, or new tyres, it’s simply that single wall rims (i.e. most fat rims) really don’t suit tubeless because the tyre just floats around in the middle of the rim and you can’t inflate it (a compressor might, but if it burps on the trail your stuffed). The foam just builds up the centre of the rim so that the tyre bead has something to push against.

    If you look at expensive fat bike rims they either have larger box sections or steps at the edge to give the tyres a fighting chance, or they’re carbon and follow the shape of normal double wall aluminium rims.

    motozulu
    Member

    thisisnotaspoon – thanks mate – I understand better now.
    So I’ve been on the fatty strippers site and see how it works now. Ordered the fatty stripper rim tape and foam backing rods. Going to install that over the top of a surly rim strip and see how I get on.

    motozulu
    Member

    Dennis99…

    ‘I fitted a 45nrth tyre, plenty of grip up front now.’

    Which one mate? the Huska do?

    lightman
    Member

    A lot of hassle and expense from the above methods!
    I don’t know why more people don’t just use the “Packing Wrap” method!
    Its cheap, super light, no need to pack the rim centre out and you can inflate the tyre with any pump – Packing Wrap Method.

    I use this on all 6 of my wheels, 4 of them are OO wheels, V1 & V2.

    motozulu
    Member

    That looks really clever! And it works in the long term?

    Already ordered the fatty stripper gear, but that’s good for thought alright.

    This seems an awful lot of faff to temporarily reduce your wheel weight by really not very much. And if you skimp on the gloop, you’ll have to do it again quite soon as it dries out in a big tyre in a few short months. Plus, remember that the sidewalls on fatty tyres need to be coated too, as they’re quite vulnerable to getting cut by rocks.
    Think I’ll stick with tubes. Doesn’t slow the bike in any meaningful way so I’ll stay off the bandwagon. Maybe if you were racing it regularly, but I just cannot see the point in trail riding.
    Winter front tyre? Minion FBF is nice and toothy.

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    It works, but IME only once. Once the tyres inflated, the wrap compress and if you do get a puncture (or burp) then you’re left with a well sealed rim but nothing for the tyre to inflate against.

    Swings and roundabouts, packing wrap is undoubtedly lighter, I’d not argue cheaper though, unless you have a lot of rims to do.

    lightman
    Member

    motozulu,
    Yep, its fine long term, over 9000 miles between two bikes, tyre pressures between 4 & 30.
    Once you get the hang of doing the wrap, its also very easy to swap tyres. Can be done in about 5mins.

    highlandman,
    Its really nothing to do with reducing wheel weight (as above, you can get a light weight tube that will be lighter than some tubeless set-ups), a tubeless tyre rolls differently and being a big tyre, it will pick up a lot more sharp objects, thorns etc… that will flat tubes.

    The reason I finally went tubeless, was because of the low pressures the valves kept getting ripped off because the tube was moving inside the tyre. I didn’t want to go tubeless, but it was my only option.

    thisisnotaspoon,
    I agree, but that goes for most of the other methods too. Only a real tubeless rim can fix that.

    Huge roll of packing wrap for less than £6 and I cut that in half.

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    Fake 3M reflective tape off eBay for being. Gorilla tape over that. Backer rod taped into place and a valve from an old tube. 1/2 a bottle of Stan’s in each.

    Used a compressor and with a bit off finessing they went up and have stayed up.

    Thats Floaters on Dune rims (same as on one I think). Had one lose air a couple times but I think that’s because there is nothing holding the valve in place. I’m just careful when I top up the air occasionally. I have some Schrader valves that have a nut like a presta for next time but I’m not disturbing them till I have to. 3 months use, no issues.

    Thorns in tyres were what sent me tubeless.

    Split inner tube worked for me. The foam in the rim makes the tyre bead tighter, so goes up easier, and might reduce the chances of burping.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    It’s the same rims as are on a Dune so there’s some good info about that. I used Lightman’s wrap method but it has some drawbacks, you need to redo it from scratch every time you fit a tyre and it’s hard to get it to bead up sometimes- the wrap doesn’t reliably fill the gap between rim and tyre. But once it’s up, it’s great. You can add foam to make it easier to inflate. If you don’t swap tyres it’s a really good option but I like to switch a bit so that was a downside.

    Split tubes are easier/more reliable to inflate and more permanent but obviously not as light. I used the AV10D tubes, they’re way lighter than the overkill AV10DH most people recommend, and cheaper too. They’re exactly the right width so you need to cut them carefully. I used foam under the tubes for an easier seal.

    The most permanent method I found is also the most gigantic pain in the balls to do. But it’s easiest and most reliable to inflate, and it’ll only need redone if you manage to damage it. Lots of tape, and foam. Short version- PVC tape to seal the rim. Then foam to build it up. Then yet more PVC tape over that to seal the foam. And that’s it.

    The downside of jiffy foam is, it does compress the first time you use it- so 4 wraps worked well the first time I inflated but then I had to add another 2 wraps once it’d compressed a bit. Once that was done, it was fine. There must be a better way to do it though.

    Of all of these, the best balance of ease and reliability is split tubes IMO. My tape-and-foam is most like a proper tubeless rim, but really is a pain in the cock to do the first time. And Lightman’s method is great once the tyre’s up. All have their advantages and they all basically work.

    Premier Icon takisawa2
    Subscriber

    I set up a pair of the Emental wheels with some JJ’s the other night. Used a couple of loops of flooring underlay & a pair of split BMX tubes. They went up easy enough but there’s minimal contact around the bead as the tubes weren’t quite wide enough. They’ve stayed up though. I’ve picked up a couple of the On-One 24″ Fatty tubes, £3 each. If the do lose any air I’ll do it again.
    I’ve run ghetto for years. Ok, so the weight savings are minimal, but it’s the hassle of flats I don’t miss. Ghetto means they go up easily with a track pump.

    Looking forward to trying this fat mullarkey round Cannock. 😉

    motozulu
    Member

    ‘This seems an awful lot of faff to temporarily reduce your wheel weight by really not very much. And if you skimp on the gloop, you’ll have to do it again quite soon as it dries out in a big tyre in a few short months. Plus, remember that the sidewalls on fatty tyres need to be coated too, as they’re quite vulnerable to getting cut by rocks.
    Think I’ll stick with tubes. Doesn’t slow the bike in any meaningful way so I’ll stay off the bandwagon. Maybe if you were racing it regularly, but I just cannot see the point in trail riding.
    Winter front tyre? Minion FBF is nice and toothy.’

    It’s absolutely nothing to do with weight – it’s a fat bike and I’m a fat bloke!
    It’s all about peace of mind and enjoying the ride, without trying to avoid thorns. **** tubes, they are a major PITA.

    Premier Icon johnnystorm
    Subscriber

    Yep, same thoughts here. Any weight savings are bonus, the real aim is not having to reinflate a tyre with 300+ strokes of a mini-pump in the pishing rain because of thorns.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    The weight is nice tbh. I mean, you can run skinny tubes in a fatbike but they’re marginal even in a 4 inch, I got those schwalbe ones people recommend and 2 of them split under the strain, it’s a 3 inch tube in a 4 inch tyre. Didn’t even try them in 4.8s.

    I can’t honestly say I feel a difference in rolling resistance but supposedly it’s there.

    I don’t get the argument that weight and drag doesn’t make a difference in a fatbike, if that was true we’d all be riding 50lb bikes with huge slow tyres. Mine is fairly light and it makes a huge difference to the ride. Whether you care or not is another matter.

    Mostly I just like that since I went fat tubeless, I’ve not had a single flat. Fixing fatbike flats is a pain in the balls.

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    I’ve never gone tubeless because of the weight but its definitely a bonus. I am also sure I would notice less weight on the back when bunnyhopping big roots and stuff on my Dune, but I reckon I need new wheels to make a real difference.

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    I’ve tried various methods on my Fatty Trail. The best for me has been foam (polystyrene radiator insulation from Lidl) under a split tube. Went up first time with a track pump and has been problem-free ever since. Not tried packing film but you need foam for anything else IME.

    Goldigger
    Member

    I’d try covering the holes up with whatever fancy colour you want or a strip of tape back to front held in place with double sided tape.
    Then run two strips of this 50mm Tesa tape round so that they overlap in the middle of the rim.
    https://www.shandhigson.co.uk/tesa-packaging-tapes/535-heavy-duty-strapping-tape-tesa-4289.html

    motozulu
    Member

    I’ve tried various methods on my Fatty Trail. The best for me has been foam (polystyrene radiator insulation from Lidl) under a split tube. Went up first time with a track pump and has been problem-free ever since. Not tried packing film but you need foam for anything else IME

    I’ve ordered the fatty strippers rim strip,foam rods and valves. I’ve already got a surly clown shoe rim tape to go under the Fatty strippers one. I’ll try this method and report back.

    dufusdip
    Member

    Tried gorilla tape on v2 on one wheels and couldn’t get it to seal. Tired split inner tube and couldn’t get the bead seated – but have since seen vaseline suggested to lubricate the beads over the inner tube – soapy water wasn’t working.

    Ended up fatty stripper and providing you follow instructions carefully it works a treat. But i then rolled tyre off the bead on a mound of grass whilst up in the hills so decided to change my rims.

    A friend went gorilla tape route and it worked but took three goes and a lot of fluid. Got a message from him on Friday that the tyre had flatted after spinning on the rim at 12psi meaning a walk home.

    Touch wood I’ve had no problem on BR710 and fatty stripper down to 4psi. This might be unfair, but I get the impression the on one wheels aren’t overly amenable to tubeless.

    motozulu
    Member

    Cheers, new rims will be a future upgrade, probably next year though, so I’ll give it a go on these.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    IMO these rims don’t want the foam backing rod method- that’s usually about packing out the bead on a really loose rim, but these have a decent bead, you don’t want to put more than you need to between metal and tyre as it’ll end up giving a less good connection/bead.

    But foam in the bed of the rim to make it easier to get the tyre onto the bead in the first place is a good idea. You can see why when you try and fit one without, the gap between tyre and rim can be huge and there’s no chance of getting it on like that, it can’t build air pressure.

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber
    motozulu
    Member

    Quick update – mate I rode with last night has just gone tubeless on the Fatty Trail with floaters using the gorilla tape method. 3x round and inflated with an old pop bottle converted to a mini compressor! impressed – stayed up all ride no problem. I’ve already ordered the Fatty Strippers gear so committed to it now.

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    I did something similar on one wheel. No way could I get it to work a second time. Foam packing in the rim bed makes the process easy, reliable and repeatable IME.

    motozulu
    Member

    He must have got lucky. Mind you – didn’t stop his rear pads auto ejecting on a descent, his one light failing or his chain coming off and getting wedged behind the cassette!
    That’ll teach the smart arse 😆

    motozulu
    Member

    Update – cracked it! after 2 fails using the fattystripper rods, I took the advice of you good lads and used laminate flooring underlay foam – bingo! Both tyres up first time using a homemade compressor (thanks to my mate Fattyrider) on the On One rims.
    In case anyone else finds it useful, I did a step by step guide on another forum I use, hope it helps someone else!

    Tubeless set up for fat bike On One rims

    Premier Icon thisisnotaspoon
    Subscriber

    Excelent 🙂

    Just be wary, I found underlay foam packed down under the air pressure and didn’t spring back, whereas yoga-mat seems to maintain it’s thickness better over time.

    It’s only and issue if your tyres burp on the trail though. If they go up and stay up it’s not a problem.

    motozulu
    Member

    Yes I’d read that – if I have to re-do it I’ll get some of that there yoga mat. I’ll see how it goes – not rode it in anger yet – just up and down the street but the difference was noticeable straight away – if only in the extra noise! 😀

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