• This topic has 73 replies, 38 voices, and was last updated 7 years ago by Euro.
Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 74 total)
  • Todays helmet story
  • Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    lovely sunny day, off on the road bike for lunch and coffee. Cycling slowly around the local lake to the road on tarmac path over the speed bump I have cycled a 1000 times before and crashed at 5mph or slower. How? No idea.

    Result visit to minor injury unit for nasty cut that needed gluing. Caught some metal work I guess to my hand but….

    helmet – wow complete write off. Took full impact and I have slight graze from the impact on my head. Helmet broke and well dented from gravel/tarmac. That would have bloody hurt. Time for a new helmet.

    Just wanted to share this to remind us all about helmets even on the shortest journey may save you from a lot of pain 🙂

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    Helmet gave you false sense of security, meant you rode with more gnar and fell off. Wouldn’t have happened if you rode naked.

    hebdencyclist
    Free Member

    The moral of this story is not “wear a helmet” but “look where you’re going” 😀

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middling Edition

    Fresh Goods Friday 696: The Middlin...
    Latest Singletrack Videos
    perchypanther
    Free Member

    How? No idea.

    Struck on the head by a meteorite and knocked to the ground?
    Good job you were wearing your anti-meteor helmet.

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    Just confirms that a soft fragile substances does actually brake when you drop it.

    Where as a hard thing like a skull doesn’t brake when you drop it

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    Dont think i’ve ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes…

    No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don’t work or aren’t really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so…

    matts
    Free Member

    I once took a nasty blow to the helmet when I crashed my racer into a wall as a kid and connected with the stem. Some pretty nasty grazing all round.

    Wasn’t wearing any cranium protection, though. Lucky my face went into a hedge.

    😉

    hebdencyclist
    Free Member

    Dont think i’ve ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes…

    No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don’t work or aren’t really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so…

    You’re statistically more likely to injure your head when travelling in a car. So it’s a good idea to wear one in the car and it’s a bit irresponsible to disagree.

    Likewise, I told my window cleaner the other day how irresponsible he was for climbing a ladder without a helmet in front of my children.

    thestabiliser
    Free Member

    You’re statistically more likely to be killed by a car when riding your bicycle than anything else. Therefore you should drive a car when riding your bicycle.

    STATO
    Free Member

    No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don’t work or aren’t really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so…

    I think most of the arguments stem from people who say they ‘saved their life’ and then describe a slow speed fall or bumping their head off a branch, when we have all (probably) clouted our heads much worse when playing as kids or similar.

    Helmets will certainly help stop serious cuts and damage to your scalp, and possibly ears / nose / face (by virtue of helmets being bigger than your head). They may help prevent death but again most of the arguments are about helmets for casual slow speed cycling, which is no more risk than walking or running.

    philjunior
    Free Member

    tpbiker – Member
    Dont think i’ve ever waded in on the helmet debate but here goes…

    No issues if you choose to not wear a helmet, its your head afterall, but always find it a bit irresponsible when people come on hear saying the don’t work or aren’t really required. Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so…

    To summarise, the reason people suggest not wearing a helmet is fine is because more people will die from being inactive than from falling off a bike. Going on about your expensive, inconvenient foam hat saving you from injury or death will put people off just going out for a ride.

    If I fell over jogging or walking and bumped my head, I wouldn’t be on here saying how dangerous these activities were and how I really should buy a helmet. They have their place, but you really are very unlucky to need one at 5mph on a road pootle to the shops.

    I wear a helmet most of the time on a bike, and all of the time I mountain bike.

    irc
    Full Member

    Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one

    Last I heard doctors treated injuries. They didn’t do accident analysis and helmet construction science. Studies suggest the benefits of helmets are too modest to capture according to Ben Goldacre and David Spiegelhalter. If anyone suggests helmets are needed for 5mph falls then we are talking walking helmets next.

    http://road.cc/content/news/85306-top-scientists-cycle-helmets-debate-will-go-and-and

    philjunior
    Free Member

    I never realised I was such a sheep, but reading the 5 or so responses surrounding mine I’d like to change my opinion please!

    Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    That speed bump was total gnar almost 2 inches plus. I would have been very sore and cut I’m. It surprised me just what damage you can do at walking speed.

    You can have the debate about wearing your helmet. It’s your head. Without doubt saved my head from a lot of gravel rash and impact.

    Just looked at scuffed gloves, they saved the gravel rash.

    I was looking where I was going the path is Tarmac like 2m wide. No other idiots involved!

    franksinatra
    Full Member

    I recently hurt my head when I dropped my bike lifting it of the roof carrier. Statistically, where does this leave me? Should I have been wearing a helmet?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    If anyone suggests helmets are needed for 5mph falls then we are talking walking helmets next.

    Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph.

    Rockplough
    Free Member

    I’m just impressed you’ve managed to beat yourself up so badly crashing at 5mph. Can’t visualise it for the life of me.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph

    How?

    Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    Rockplough I take that path nearly every time I go on the road. How the hell I fell off? No idea.

    struck by meteor on head!

    Drac
    Full Member

    Any rotational forces injuries?

    joshvegas
    Free Member

    bencooper – Member
    Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph
    How?

    Must be a different type of mph

    Denis99
    Free Member

    I used to be slept all about wearing a helmet on a road bike until I had a comedy fall.

    Lost my balance at a virtual standstill, clipped in and keeled over.

    Helmet took quite a thud, operator error, but it does happen ( well to me anyway).

    bencooper
    Free Member

    What I find interesting – and I offer this as anecdotal evidence only – is that I’ve fallen off bikes quite a bit. But I’ve never hit my head. Maybe I have usually strong neck muscles.

    thecaptain
    Free Member

    Most of the pro-helmet “research” is utter dross. If they were such an important safety device, it would be easy to show it conclusively. In the real world, populations that wear helmets don’t generally suffer significantly fewer head injuries. IIRC the most cited paper claiming to do so, has been disowned by its authors.

    Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    Any rotational forces injuries?

    no it was that bloody slow. The cut to my hand from the damn road bike biting me was 30mm long and needed gluing. Really quite deep. I had fingerless gloves on they took the gravel rash away but somehow on the joint of my little finger and palm I managed a 30mm deep wound ^^

    Bloody tarmac and gravel

    irc
    Full Member

    If it was me I’d be more worried about having an un-explained crash than whether the helmet worked or not. Road bike inherently unstable at near walking speed?

    Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can’t conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I’m speculating that 700×37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.

    irc
    Full Member

    If it was me I’d be more worried about having an un-explained crash than whether the helmet worked or not. Road bike inherently unstable at near walking speed?

    Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can’t conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I’m speculating that 700×37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.

    atlaz
    Free Member

    Fell of bike at a low speed last year. Likely wouldn’t have died. Seems pretty likely I would have gone to hospital for concussion and/or stitches. Helmet stopped that but I still had a headache.

    Just asking as my road bikes are tourers and I can’t conceive of losing control at low speed on them. I’m speculating that 700×37 tyres are more forgiving of road surface faults as well as touring geometry being more stable.

    My fall was low speed. Car was coming to pass me on a narrow road, I got too close to the edge of the road, rear wheel came off the road as I was pulling in behind the car. Down I went. Nothing to do with tyres or geometry. But that was just my crash.

    maxtorque
    Full Member

    bencooper
    Falling off a bike at 5mph is clearly very different to falling over walking at 5mph
    How?

    Think about it. What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often “death gripped” to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

    If you like try the following experiment:

    1) Get a good friend (or enemy) to tie your hands behind your back.
    2) Walk along in front of said friend/enemy.
    3) Without warning your friend/enemy will kick you hard in the back.

    Watch in wonder as you use your face for a brake……….. 😆

    fourbanger
    Free Member

    Last year I was riding my bike to the shops. Just popped out without a second thought. Bought some eggs, bacon, black pudding and beans if I recall. Popped into to see me local coffee house, grabbed a double espresso. Called in at the local artisan baker and picked up a sower dough loaf, seed covered.
    Jumped back on my bike , headed back home. Wasn’t wearing a helmet….
    Got in, kettle on, fired up the frying pan. Cracking breakfast! Didn’t have a crash, no cuts and bruises.
    Conclusion, not wearing a helmet stops you crashing and makes you cook a great fry up. Doctors agreed.

    eshershore
    Free Member

    Wearing my helmet. Turned into single track at 5 mph. Forgot to turn off fork lockout. Front wheel hit dogpoo, slid out to the left. I fell forward, my right arm hit the ground and then me on top, with my arm hitting my chest. Broke a rib.

    Head OK though!

    2 days before. Bashing round the rock gardens at the London Olympics tracks, fast as possible, not a scratch…

    hebdencyclist
    Free Member

    Broke a rib.

    Tsk. Why weren’t you wearing a suit of armour? How irresponsible 😉

    jonba
    Free Member

    2 weeks ago I was brought down in a bunch sprint at 55kmh. My arm and back were a mess – now just a bit scared and red. Scratched up my bike, ripped my jersey. Head was fine, not a scratch on my helmet. So remember, probably no point wearing one really.

    irc
    Full Member

    Think about it. What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often “death gripped” to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

    Must just be me then. Any bike crash I’ve had I’ve always realised when I was past the point of recovery, let go the bars, and either rolled or used my arms to break my fall. Never hit my head yet despite crashing at more than 5mph.

    bencooper
    Free Member

    What, generally speaking have you free when you are walking or running, but have occupied and often “death gripped” to the bars as you go OTB?? Yup, your hands.

    I don’t death grip the bars, am I doing biking wrong?

    Bez
    Full Member

    Most of the evidence from doctors suggests its a good idea to wear one and whether you agree or not its probably not a good idea to discourage others from doing so…

    Two points to note about that:

    Firstly, albeit admittedly without knowing precisely what you’re referring to, a significant proportion of “evidence” that comes from doctors is not evidence but opinion. Which isn’t to say it’s necessarily wrong, but it does mean it’s not necessarily right and it does mean it’s not evidence. And, yes, the difference is important.

    Secondly, doctors get to see a subset of the cycling population: namely, those who have been injured and have been admitted for treatment. They don’t get to see the ones who have been injured but not admitted, they don’t get to see the ones who have been in an incident but haven’t been injured, and they don’t get to see the ones who haven’t been in an incident. That’s a *lot* of data they’re missing out on. And if you look at all of that data, you see two things that doctors don’t: firstly that there’s a slightly higher chance of an incident for the helmet-wearing population (due to factors such as first- and third-party risk compensation), and secondly that this seems to be at least as significant as any benefit afforded by helmets, meaning that there’s no net benefit to the population.

    This becomes highlighted when you see the results of helmet compulsion, where participation rates go down but injury frequency stays broadly constant, meaning that injury rate (including head injuries) goes up. Theories for this include the highly plausible notion that compulsion is off-putting to people who would normally not choose to wear a helmet (the obvious bit) and that these people tend to cycle in a way that is inherently more safe (the less obvious bit). Essentially it aligns with the idea of a certain environment (where people are required to share with motor traffic) nurturing a certain type of rider: largely men who can and do ride fast and accelerate quickly in order to mingle tolerably with motor vehicles.

    I don’t think anyone here is discouraging the use of a helmet (though I know of at least one person who does*) and I’m also not arguing that helmets provide no trauma protection, because I believe they do (to a point). But it’s absolutely fair to point out that wearing one isn’t anything like the “common sense” protection that people think it is. And it’s absolutely fair to dismiss an anecdote about the sort of freak accident that one might encounter in all sorts of scenarios: if you’re going to cite an inexplicable tumble at less than 5mph as a reason to wear one but you don’t wear one when you go out drinking, or travel in a car, or all sorts of other things, then your approach to anecdata—let alone real data—is perverse.

    The best thing, really, is to make your own choice (perverse or otherwise) about whether you wear one and to let others do the same. Not just for reasons of personal freedom, but because most people are probably making the right choice for the way in which they cycle.

    * And that’s partly due to the above: tacitly putting up with helmets, when they’re not shown to have any benefit across the population as a whole, has no net trauma benefit across the population but does diminish the cycling population (which has a health disbenefit) and steers naturally helmet-averse people towards the use of helmets, which may increase their risk for reasons of risk compensation.

    jamj1974
    Full Member

    I’m not interested in enforcing helmet use but…

    If I know I am going to be engaged in an activity already anyway… I could be wearing a device that most likely would add protection and not add risk. The device is comfortable and doesn’t impinge.

    Why wouldn’t I?

    molgrips
    Free Member

    firstly that there’s a slightly higher chance of an incident for the helmet-wearing population (due to factors such as first- and third-party risk compensation), and secondly that this seems to be at least as significant as any benefit afforded by helmets, meaning that there’s no net benefit to the population.

    To me that seems WILDLY unlikely, and that reeks of science being used to justify a desired outcome. I haven’t read the science though, that’s just suspicion.

    Re 5mph – I maintain that cycling at 5mph is a) more likely to result in a tumble and b) the mode of falling is different, resulting in different injuries. I do stumble occasionally when walking, but I’m falling in the direction I’m going, and my trailing leg always comes forward to hold me up. On a bike, I tend to fall over sideways, and my other leg is on the other side of my bike where it can’t help me.

    antigee
    Full Member

    i hope the thread title is wrong and this thread isn’t going to be an every day thing

    my guess is were riding too slowly – in fact your bike is probable capable of balancing itself without a rider if going fast enough ….. so it would be safer not to ride it

    Pawsy_Bear
    Free Member

    I see very few not wearing a helmet these days. Of course there are the hardcore card carrying members of the CTC and flat earth society who don’tt. I’m certainly not in favour of compulsion. There’s enough nanny state already. I will, as always, continue to wear gloves, helmet etc as experience has shown me they lessen my injuries.

    I certainly agree with molegrips about speed, more so on MTB and falling. Never hurt my legs, knees or shins MTBing. Elbows, shoulders and head, oh yes. Others I know always fall and hit their knees or shins first. I think we all fall differently and speed had some part to play in your off.

    As for turning to data and statistics they are a useful tool but need to be applied sensibly. I’m not sure that were drawing the right conclusions from the data which Bez points out isn’t inclusive of all incidents. We live in an imperfect world. Doctors aren’t experts at riding.

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 74 total)

The topic ‘Todays helmet story’ is closed to new replies.