Todays 'Defend the indefensible' – FOBTs

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  • Todays 'Defend the indefensible' – FOBTs
  • scuttler
    Member

    Ref the proposal to reduce the stakes for fixed-odds betting terminals.

    Malcolm George, of the Association of British Bookmakers, said the government shared its wish to identify problem gamblers and get them help.

    But restricting terminals in betting shops would redirect problem gamblers to other avenues where there were less controls on the amount of gambling, he said.

    “Just as alcohol policy in this country is not solely determined by alcoholics” he added, there needs to be an environment for the “vast majority who gamble responsibly”

    Great thanks. We’d just better carry on then cos if I was a ‘responsible gambler’ I’d really struggle to work out where to have a punt. The tragic thing is they will probably be reduced from £100 a pop to £50 so it’ll take about 20 minutes to screw yourself over rather than 10. Then of course there’s the inevitable loss of jobs associated with the closure of some bookies. Again tragic given the net contribution they make to communities.

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    All online betting should be banned IMO, HTHs.

    jimjam
    Member

    Ban phones I say.

    Premier Icon midlifecrashes
    Subscriber

    the net contribution they make to communities

    Hahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahahahha.

    Get in the effin’ sea.

    All online betting should be banned

    ….except these. These are awesome.

    I was listening to this on the radio on the way to work this morning.

    Bet Fred ‘warns’ that 20% of bookies could close if they reduce the maximum amount to be bet in one hit.

    My response would be ‘Ok, so how low does the maximum bet have to be to reduce the amount of bookies by at least 50%? Lets go 10% lower than that’.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber
    Klunk
    Member

    All online betting should be banned IMO, HTHs.

    along with late night tv casinos.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    The apocalyptic vision of only one or two betting shops in every town centre put forward by the betting firms is not quite as terrifying as they think.

    The deregulation of the betting industry was one of the worst mistakes of the Labour government.

    As a lucrative form of tax generation though, it can’t be faulted.

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    Does anyone ever walk in a bookies and think “This place is chock full of winners. I want a bit of this action too, show me to the magic cash machines!”?

    Get in the effin’ sea.

    +1

    Premier Icon bikebouy
    Subscriber

    And from now on until Bettings demise ban all adverts too… all of them not just TV.

    gobuchul
    Member

    The apocalyptic vision of only one or two betting shops in every town centre put forward by the betting firms is not quite as terrifying as they think.

    It is to them.

    Personally I don’t have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?

    Klunk
    Member

    It was quite an eye opener watching both bt & sky football, it’s wall to wall gambling ads, compared to say a us feed (all suv’s and burgers)

    thecaptain
    Member

    **** parasites the lot of them.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Personally I don’t have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?
    Heavy restrictions, for a lot of addicts it is a huge problem. The net benefits of directing the lost money back into the economy is show above. Making it easy for addicts to be addicted is a bad idea.

    Premier Icon soundninjauk
    Subscriber

    Personally I don’t have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    Unfortunately when these people run out of ready cash it becomes every else’s problem as well.

    There’s a world of difference between betting on the Grand National and FOBTs anyway.

    I read this article on The Guardian a while ago that really shows the effect these places are having.

    scuttler
    Member

    Get in the effin’ sea.

    I might’ve missed the sarcasm smiley off my original comment. Gonna have to steady the ship with a mememememe instead 🙂 For the avoidance of doubt I DNGAS if all the bookies closed so long as Perchy says they keep the 2p sliders (10p ones = FOBTs)

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    gobuchul wrote:

    What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?

    No – but the point is over there somewhere. The complaint appears to be that the proposed measures will result in the closure of bookies. I tend to agree with several others on here – the number of bookies closing down is a good measure of the success of any proposal to curb the harm done by gambling.

    I don’t understand the “loss of jobs” argument either. Won’t people just spend their money on something else and create jobs there instead? The money people save by not gambling doesn’t just vanish.

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Personally I don’t have a problem with bookmakers. If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    http://news.sky.com/story/fixed-odds-betting-addict-in-his-own-words-i-just-self-destruct-11106617

    Some people are more vulnerable to gambling addiction than others. As a society we do have a responsibility (to an extent) to protect people from self-inflicted harms, and their own weakness.

    No-one is talking about banning them altogether, just perhaps stopping you being able to lose five grand in an hour.

    If the industry’s business model collapses because people can’t do this, then that’s fine with me.

    hodgynd
    Member

    I’ve absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for bookmakers or gamblers ..
    What I would say is that the amount of advertising given over to gambling is unbelievable and should be culled ..
    Saying ” When the fun stops ..stop”…makes everything ok does it ?
    What a joke !

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    Just get the Ray Winstone adverts off the telly. That’ll do me for a start.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    from the link above in a small population

    Report author John Mangan said Tasmanians lose on average $113 million a year on poker machines in the state’s pubs and clubs.

    The report estimated there are 2,000 problem gamblers, 6,000 moderate risk gamblers and 15,000 low risk-gamblers in the state.

    Professor Mangan’s economic modelling assumed that people would be less likely to spend gamble money on poker machines at casinos, than at their local pub or club.

    “You have a lot of impulse gambling due to proximity and if you shift it to casinos, that will drop off,” he said.

    Prof Mangan’s modelling found that if 100 per cent of gambling losses from hotels and clubs was diverted it would create 670 full time jobs, and add $91 million annually to Tasmania’s gross output and add $45 million in wages, profits and dividends.
    It’s a huge problem if you let it get that way.

    Junkyard
    Member

    Personally I don’t have a problem with bookmakers.

    Me neither but we are not the ones who need protection. Its noat about helping non problem gamblers is it

    If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    That is definitely how gambling addiction is described in academic circles .Have you considered having some empathy and caring about their position/plight? Gambling addiction it will also have knock on affects for society and perhaps we ought to legislate those who peddle the wares to the addicts and ask them to behave responsibly – expecting an addict to behave responsibly is unrealistic.

    What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?

    try to seek a balance between them being open and protecting the most vulnerable – like this basically.

    No one thinks this will end gambling [ hence why it will remain legal] the real question is will it reduce the harm

    P-Jay
    Member

    I’m not a huge Fan of Victoria Coren, or indeed the Guardian, but this really sums up the damage these machine do, and how and why after a 30 year decline, there is suddenly 5 betting shops in every small town high street.

    Evil Machines

    Premier Icon midlifecrashes
    Subscriber

    Apologies, scuttler, I misread the intent of your last sentence and took your post as a shill. 🙂

    Klunk
    Member

    the government will introduce some kind of voluntary self regulation. 🙄

    Murray
    Member

    There was a program on Radio 4 yesterday about how tricks are used to pull our strings. One example from Dolby was visual tricks to make fire on screen make you feel hot. A more relevant example was gambling machines in casinos where everything from the pattern of payouts to the shape of the carpet leading you to the machine was designed to maximize “time on device”.

    Gambling’s a big business using all the tricks it can to make as much money as possible. Instant betting needs reducing in stake size dramatically as part of a move to banning it.

    user-removed
    Member

    If people are stupid enough to think they can win in the long term, it’s their problem.

    Apart from the arguments above, which quite rightly point out that it can become problematic for the unfortunate minority, is gambling any more stupid than spending £100 on a saddle (frinstance)? For most, it’s a sociable, enjoyable pastime and like most pastimes, it involves parting with a bit of cash.

    For the record, I don’t gamble 🙂

    Premier Icon leffeboy
    Subscriber

    Was just about to post what @murray posted. It’s amazing the work they do to keep you hooked. It’s like imagining that you aren’t affected by advertising

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Martinhuutch wrote:

    If the industry’s business model collapses because people can’t do this, then that’s fine with me.

    As I just wrote, the level of the collapse of the business model is a good measure of the success of any such measure – anything which doesn’t result in some pain (yes, and job losses) to the gambling industry isn’t doing any good.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    In my early career, when work was harder to come by, I did some illustration work for one of the gaming companies. I didn’t last long. Nobody with a shred of humanity in them ever does in that industry.

    I can confirm they are the very worst human beings on the planet. You’d feel the need to disinfect yourself after you had meetings with them. They were utterly toxic people, completely devoid of any redeeming features as human beings whatsoever. Imagine Iain Duncan Smith but with a lot less empathy and compassion, and you’re halfway there

    They had one goal in life, and one only….. to devise ever more fiendish ways to separate people from every last penny of their money in the fastest way possible. And believe me, these were very clever people. And totally dedicated to their goal

    It makes me laugh when they talk about ‘self-regulation’. Having met these people, it is literally like leaving Dracula in charge of the blood bank

    Nico
    Member

    On the Today prog this morning the bookies spokesman warned that if the fixed odds money-spinners went, and half the bookies had to close, then their place would not be taken by artisan bakers but with shabby amusement arcades! So, you have been warned. Best keep those aspirational bookies in the High Street and on the estates lest things start to look a bit run down.

    The current limit is £100 every 20 seconds. The red tide under Comrade Corbyn has promised to reduce it to £2 every 20 seconds. J. K. Rowling could play the machines full time and still end up in credit.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    , it is literally like leaving Dracula in charge of the blood bank

    Given his unique drive and enthusiasm I can’t see why he wouldn’t be an excellent candidate for the job.

    P-Jay
    Member

    What would you do? Shut them all down? Would that stop people gambling?

    Nah, if there’s an easy lesson to learn from history it’s that prohibition doesn’t work, just makes a lot of money for people who are willing to break the law and they’re far more damaging to people than even FOBTs.

    The reason why these machines are so dangerous is that It’s almost a exact science that the quicker you see the result of a bet, the more addictive it is – that’s why people get into all sorts of trouble with scratch cards, but rarely with the lottery – take the pace out of it and it’s far less addictive.

    If I were in power:

    1) I’d ban advertising, gambling is addictive and causes lots of pain for those who get addicted, ring any bells? Anyway the Betting Industry is allowed far to much leeway with their advertising “cheeky little flutter” sounds a lot better than “spunking the equivalent of the weekly shopping bill on an electronic roulette wheel”.

    2) I would enforce changes to the shops – people don’t like doing something they know they really shouldn’t in view of outsiders, there’s a reason why most shops don’t have windows or at least have massive posters covering 90% of the window. It isolates the ‘punter’ from the real world and means they’re ‘amongst friends’ who collectively feel they can’t be doing anything wrong because they’re all doing it.

    3) I’d impose a cap on ‘instant’ bets – fruit machines and scratch cards, cap them at £2 a go, impose time limits too, because you can’t trust a bookie not to find a loophole who allow the reels to spin every 5 seconds. Ban betting on sporting events for an hour before it’s starts – they’re pushing more and more engagement from punters by allowing them to bet whilst events are on-going, it causes a sort of excited panic from punters. Yeah, you’d have to allow certain leeway for punter who are actually at the races etc, but not much.

    Ultimately, humans are terrible at assessing risk unless they’re actually in physical danger, and I can’t see why if you’re just betting for a ‘flutter’ it makes any difference if you bet a quid or a grand?

    Yes, it’s not a perfect solution, I suspect many betting sites, betting shops and apps would close and some responsible gamblers would be upset, but when I see an explosion in and industry like we’ve seen in Gambling in the last 10 years, a decade of huge financial turmoil and pain for a lot of people, I see exploitation.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    Nico wrote:

    The current limit is £100 every 20 seconds. The red tide under Comrade Corbyn has promised to reduce it to £2 every 20 seconds.

    I can’t see any obvious downside to making it even lower than that – well apart from to the gambling industry, and we’ve already established my level of sympathy for them. Ultimately it’s just regulating the speed at which people can give their money to the bookies.

    Premier Icon DezB
    Subscriber

    is gambling any more stupid than spending £100 on a saddle (frinstance)?

    Yes.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Gambling isn’t inherently better or worse than anything else.

    Everythings relative though, innit?

    It’s like asking if you’re a drinker? If you say yes, does that mean that you like a couple of pints after work? Or that you spend all your days drinking white lightning in a park, pissing yourself, and shouting at buses

    I like to bet on the footy. So do a lot of my mates. I don’t think any of us have ever set foot in a bookies in our lives. We all do it through phone apps. So there you go… the TV advertising certainly works. Nobody has a problem with it. A couple of quid here and there on the outcome of games, first goalscorer etc etc… that you’re in with a fair enough chance of winning.

    Thats the ‘couple of pints after work’ option

    At the other end of the spectrum is the ‘drinking white lightning in a park, pissing yourself, and shouting at buses’ that these FOBT’s represent. It’s absolutely terrifying how fast you can lose totally crazy sums of money 😯

    It should be properly regulated

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