To buy Ti or Steel frame

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  • To buy Ti or Steel frame
  • gavin100
    Member

    I had my 06 Cove Hummer stolen at the end of last month and can’t quite decided what should be the replacement, with £1500 from the insurance company and an extra bit from my own pot of gold.
    Looking at ti
    On one 456,
    Ragley,
    Cove hummer (again) getting a bit too pricey now
    Cotic Soda,
    Charge Duster
    Or should it be good old steel like the Cotic Soul.
    I like the option of the long fork.
    The bike tends to be used on Scottish single track with occasional visits to Glentress, Inners and Lagan with annual No Fuss events.
    I’m just not sure where to start. Too many options. Suggestions and advice would be much appreciated.

    I just want to get back out into the dirt.

    RealMan
    Member

    What did you like and dislike about the hummer?

    gavin100
    Member

    I liked the Hummer (bought second hand). I’ve never used another ti frame. Just not sure where to start looking.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Better a good steel frame than a cheap or poor quality ti IMO (though I don’t class anything made by Lynskey as cheap, no matter what the RRP is/was!).

    That said, the Hummer is an awesome bike… Would require a whole lot of extra cash from yourself to build up a new one though, as the frame alone will blow your budget.

    If it was my money? Something like a Cotic Soul, Genesis Altitude, possibly even a 456 or a Blue Pig with a half decent build… I’m still not convinced that ti is worth it, I’ve tried several, even owned one, and I can’t say that I’ve been that bothered by it as a material to make bike frames from. Steel is still the best material IMO.

    druidh
    Member

    I have two Ti bikes and I’m really tempted by the Ti Ragley. However, I’m currently running an mmmbop and I just can’t see that the Ti version is soooo much better as to be worth 5 times as much money

    ibis
    Member
    Leku
    Member

    Brodie Holeshot?

    pebble
    Member

    Hi,

    I have a brand new 2009 Cove Hummer sat in the shed for sale (full built up bike/unridden) and set up by the local bike shop. Genuine sale as frame only or full bike within your budget. Give me a call on (07779) 602273 for futher details.

    Rob

    jamesb
    Member

    Why not give steel a go for a change? Having just got a Cotic BFe Im really impressed by it and imagine the Soul would be equally as good and nearly as versatile; previous to BFe Ive been riding a Van Nic Ti and although BFe has built up 4-5 lb heavier it certainly doesn`t feel heavier when riding, if anything it feels even nippier!:)

    Ti 456, OK so its a ‘cheep’ Ti frame, but it presumably passed a CEN test so can’t be any poorer quality than something like the original soul or prince alberts which didn’t IIRC?

    £ for lb the only thing better value is the carbon version

    So either……..

    Steel 456 and a bling build
    Carbon 456 and XT bits
    Ti 456 and SLX bits

    If i was buying my steel one again I’d go down a size, get the summer season to restore the wheelbase, and fit a layback post to get the reach because IMO Brant’s geometry only works with a lockout fork, with my ETA fork it climbs more like a pig on dope than a goat on speed.

    hora
    Member

    Who says the original Soul or PA wouldn’t have passed? Maybe they were never put through?

    jp-t853
    Member

    If you like the Cove why not get a Handjob?

    geetee1972
    Member

    If you even start to have the whole ‘can I justify the price of a titanium frame versus a steel one’ conversation in your head, then IMO, you should just buy a steel one. It’s obvious that in this case, you’re never going to reach a rational conclusion that the material is worth the premium.

    Steel is about 80% as good as Ti (again, just my opinion) in terms of real world use and the new Cotic Soul is blindingly good for the money.

    The thing is, titanium, used right, is just such a good material to build hardtails from and it really is better than steel in every respect. If having ridden a well sorted Ti hardtail you can feel that difference, then really it doesn’t matter how much more it costs. It just costs what it costs and if you want what it has to offer, you’ll pay the premium without even beginning to think about whether you can justify the price. It’s a bit like saying, well, the Ferrari is only £150,000 but whereas the Bugatti is almost £1m, so can I justify the cost of Bugatti vs. the Ferrari? Not a hope in hell. But if it’s the Bugatti you want then frankly it makes no difference how much it costs.

    The ability for Ti to blend the best bits of steel with those of aluminium (lateral stiffness in the BB for fabulous power response with amazing longitudinal compliance for bump/buzz absorption) is what you pay for; that and the fact that you easily get a sub 4lb frame without any compromise in strength.

    I’ve owned a Cotic Soul and sold it in favour of the original Ti456, which I got second hand. I’ve also ridden the Ragley Ti and Bluepig and various other hardcore hardtails including the Nicolai Argon FR.

    Unquestionably the Ti framed bikes rode discernibly better in terms of their material characteristics. Of all the bikes I’ve tried, for my style of riding (fairly aggressive, front weighted, quite loose, flat pedals etc) the Ragley Ti was the standout bike but it’s not for everyone. The Ti456 comes a close second but mine was half the price of the Ragley because it was second hand.

    The Ti Ragley though – **** me what a bike! Insolent like a teenager in puberty and as randy as one on heat. It’s a ‘take me by the scruff of the neck, get right over my front, push my face into the dirt you mother fu**er and absolutely wring seven bells of sh*t out of my scrawny, tight, stiff titanium arse’ kind of bike. It’s a 19 year old with all the soft bits still taught as a drum but smooth when you climb onboard; a slip sliding, sh*t spitting, sideways sha**ing ragger of a bike and it’s **** brilliant.

    But it costs £1200.

    The Cotic Soul is similarly brilliant, but it’s more refined, more mature and sophisticated. It’s as happy at a Michelin star restaurant in elegant black channel number with Jimmy Choos and matching purse, perfect make up and polite conversation but will also happily be wearing the very finest Agent Provocateur beneath the elegant exterior. If the Ragely is Kings Cross’ finest, then the Soul is a high class hooker. The experience is more sophisticated but it’s not down and dirty and ultimately, like a high class hooker, there are some things it won’t do.

    The Ragley will happily do anything you want it to. Yes, even ‘that’.

    OK I’m off for a cold shower now!

    Hora is correct – none of the Reynolds 520 Prince Alberts were ever put through any CEN tests because they didn’t exist when those frames were in production. Current Reynolds 725 Prince Albert has passed all 5 CEN tests despite being what I consider to be “less burly” than previous incarnations (Alpine and new Holeshot frames have now also passed CEN testing).

    Premier Icon StirlingCrispin
    Subscriber

    Have you looked at the Curtis website?
    http://www.curtisbikes.co.uk/

    Oh my!

    Steel it is:

    Why not just buy a Lynskey, rather than Cotic/Ragley which are made by Lynskey anyway?

    My (completely unfounded) suspicion is that they put their own name on the best kit they produce.

    Premier Icon brant
    Subscriber

    Why not just buy a Lynskey, rather than Cotic/Ragley which are made by Lynskey anyway?

    I did the geometry for the Lynskey LT frames as well as the Ragley’s

    The Lynskey LT is designed as a much more sensible frame than the Ragley. With steeper head angle giving more “normal” geometry.

    I did the geometry for the Lynskey LT frames as well as the Ragley’s

    Ah! 😳 I can’t argue with that then!

    I have an LT – you did a damn fine job sir. I must be sensible! 😯

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Ignoring material, and price, I’d say the Soul might be a better replacement/match for an old Hummer than a Soda is.

    (Hopefully Cy won’t read this and blame me for losing him a Soda sale)

    .
    .

    Why not just buy a Lynskey, rather than Cotic/Ragley which are made by Lynskey anyway?

    Because they’re designed to ride differently? All built BY the same excellent people, but built FOR different people (and some people are more different than others).

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Oh, Brant replied with a definitive rather than vague answer. Listen to him not me.

    >geetee1972

    The Ti Ragley though – **** me what a bike! Insolent like a teenager in puberty and as randy as one on heat. It’s a ‘take me by the scruff of the neck, get right over my front, push my face into the dirt you mother fu**er and absolutely wring seven bells of sh*t out of my scrawny, tight, stiff titanium arse’ kind of bike. It’s a 19 year old with all the soft bits still taught as a drum but smooth when you climb onboard; a slip sliding, sh*t spitting, sideways sha**ing ragger of a bike and it’s **** brilliant.

    I’m loving your write up.. singletrack.. hire this man to write reviews in the mag 🙂

    For some reason, that write up reminded me of that guy with the beard raping that lass on This is England 86

    Mmmm Ti….

    damo2576
    Member

    What are the Pipedream Ti frames like?

    geetee1972
    Member

    For some reason, that write up reminded me of that guy with the beard raping that lass on This is England 86

    Oh my word. Not quite the reaction I was hoping for! 😯 Not least because the Ragley Ti wants it.

    glynP
    Member

    I have a hummer frame for sale in a 17″, its mint

    damo2576
    Member
    Bimbler
    Member

    Haven’t looked at the Curtis website for years (not that it seems to have changed much), lovely bikes, wonder if they’ll ever build a 29er?

    gavin100
    Member

    mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    Lot’s to think about.
    First stop the local bike Shop which stocks Ragley and they’re letting me try out a Blue Pig. However that Soul sounds nice. Different beasts.
    Heading to Dirt School on Sunday on a borrowed bike not ti or steel. Still it’s two wheels and that’s what counts. Just getting out on the trails and getting dirty.

    Premier Icon davidh007
    Subscriber

    Dirt School is excellent. Andy really knows his stuff.
    The Ti ragley is awesome. Best bike I’ve ever ridden.

    bobster
    Member

    kelvin – Member
    Ignoring material, and price, I’d say the Soul might be a better replacement/match for an old Hummer than a Soda is.

    Could you elaborate? I’m genuinely interested due to my current predicament.

    hora
    Member

    Hmmmm years and years ago I remember buying a Airborne (Lucky Strike? before they had those spider seat tube braces) – It rode really wierd. I mean ‘wierd’. Being a tart I flogged it rather than learn how it sprang/dampened as it really did dampen the trail small stuff.

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    this really isn’t meant to be the start of an argument. you’ve spent enough time on a fs to know thats not for you?

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Hora, I had an Airborne Lancaster, and after I got used to the initial “wow it damps the trail buzz nicely” feeling, I started to notice just how much it flexed all over the place! So did like you did, and got shot quickly… That and it felt quite slack to me for a an xc hardtail with a short travel fork…

    Ti can be great, but IMO you need to still out enough beef in the frame that it doesn’t flex like a bastard. To that extent I’d say Cove got it right with the Hummer, and hopefully/possibly Brant with the Ragley and the 456… Other frames I’ve seen/tried have all been too light and flexy though. Hence why I like steel still!

    geetee1972
    Member

    Well I tried both the Ragley and the Ti456 off the back of the a Nicolai Argon FR which was just about the stiffest harshest mother flecking frame I’ve ever ridden. But both the Ragley and the 456 were still more than stiff enough around the BB. But there was clearly a lot of flex going on elsewhere.

    johnners
    Member

    If you’re not already buying into the “Ti is best bs” then there’s no point paying the large premium. The only bikes mentioned which I’ve ridden a lot are the Soul and the Soda, which have the same geometry. Leaving aside the issue that my Soda cracked (dumping the “Ti is for life” argument for me) I still much preferred the ride of the Soul. I struggle to pin down why, but it just felt more planted, stable and accurate. I’m still riding it 6+ years on.

    Ti isn’t better than other frame materials, it’s just different from them.

    from always riding/ owning aluminium frames, i took the plunge into steel in the form of an inbred, built it up ss and loved it.
    loved it (steel) that much that i thought i’d try something a bit more robust to put some gears on (?) and got myself a blue pig. hated it.
    but, because i’d splashed out on a load of new parts to build it up, i got myself a 456 frame and swapped everything over. loved it!
    then got the chance to buy a ti 456 frame, went for it, swapped everything over again, and guess what? …love it!

    as previous posters have pointed out, there is def a difference riding ti, maybe not massive, (for me anyway) and maybe it’s just psychological, but it works for me!

    i prob wouldn’t have splashed out initially on a new ti frame, but having owned the steel version of the same bike, and getting it for a good price, i new that i wouldn’t go too far wrong.

    reading this back, it probably doesn’t help your cause at all! but hey, it’s saturday, and i’ve been boozing 😉

    b r
    Member

    If you compare the average FS against a HT Ti, you’ll find that HT Ti’s are not that expensive.

    Don’t get het up on the price.

    Candodavid
    Member

    Patience with Curtis, as new things might be happening from what I can gather. Will inform more from possibly next week.

    bobster
    Member

    Candodavid – Member
    Patience with Curtis, as new things might be happening from what I can gather. Will inform more from possibly next week.

    Intriguing

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 50 total)

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