tubeless explained

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  • tubeless explained
  • I’ve just converted to tubeless after much debate but reading up on it never explained in laymen terms HOW it was better. I mean low pressure but rolls better just because the tubes missing? how can the same pressure be different?
    so I thought I’d explain here for anyone thinking of doing the same but like me didn’t quite get it.
    the very first thing I noticed after inflating with the compressor was the tyre was SOLID. no idea how much pressure was in the tyre and I never run a tyre like this so I put the track pump on to let down to say 40psi….. used to run 40-45 on rear.
    I put the track pump on and its 35psi! you push the tyre though an it’s SOLID like 50psi! no tube = no play. I let the tyre down until it felt right 25psi! if I had 25psi with a tube I would be able to push the tyre half way in yet now its SOLID and low pressure inside means the tyre will mould and grip much better but not sag when riding normal.
    in short low pressure in a tubesless tyre is at least as firm as 10psi more with tubes.
    most here will already know this but im explaining for the next guy looking for a clear explanation.

    Premier Icon kiwijohn
    Subscriber

    Personally don’t believe in really low pressure. Proper ust tyres are a lot stiffer than a normal tyre.
    Main advantage is more puncture resistance, but you can still puncture them..

    this exact same tyre was completely softer with a tube. Hans dampf tubeless ready

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    I can’t say I have ever experienced the phenomenon you describe, and to be honest it doesn’t make any sense.

    What on earth are you on about pitchpro?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    The accuracy of the human body as a calibrated measuring device never ceases to amaze me.

    ok I haven’t converted my front tyre to tubeless yet so I’ll let it down to 25psi and take a picture of the difference.

    Tom B
    Member

    Many thanks for the ‘clear’ explanation!

    Klunk
    Member

    OP you do know the only thing “special” about “tubeless ready” is a slightly thicker rubber around the bead to aid sealing.

    Well, that’s tubeless cleared up.

    NEXT!

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    The accuracy of the human body as a calibrated measuring device never ceases to amaze me.

    πŸ˜€

    Almost made me chuckle, but not quite… Elicited a genuine wry smile though! πŸ˜‰

    grum
    Member

    35 PSI in a larger volume will feel a lot harder – see your cars tyres.

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    I fancy a share of all this derision, so I’ll admit to having noticed this phenomenon too. Nothing to do with the type of tyre, purely a difference between the ‘thumb feel’ of a tyre when run at a similar pressure with and without a tube.

    Not sure it ‘explains’ tubeless though.

    Rorschach
    Member

    Less boingy more squidgable and at least 13.4% squirmirisation.It’s pretty obvious to anyone.

    Premier Icon singlespeedstu
    Subscriber

    35 PSI in a larger volume will feel a lot harder – see your cars tyres.

    Think you might find thats more to do with the car tyre being a 4 ply and a bike tyre not. πŸ˜‰

    grum
    Member

    Think you might find thats more to do with the car tyre being a 4 ply and a bike tyre not.

    Mebbe but IMO the OP is right in that the exact same tyre feels significantly harder tubeless at the same PSI. What’s your explanation for that? I asked about this ages ago:

    http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/you-know-when-people-talk-about-psi-numpty-physics-question

    Premier Icon singlespeedstu
    Subscriber

    What’s your explanation for that?

    I don’t have an explanation for something that i’ve never experienced myself.

    I have noticed how much better a tyre feels when ridden tubeless though.
    How it feels to the touch of my hand is irrelavent. πŸ™‚

    the guys i ride with who run low pressures before didnt notice. i ride high pressures normally and certainly notice. i wouldnt even dream of riding 25psi before. always some smart ass ready to scoff at a comment. i eat a steak not poke it but i sure as hell poke it to check its done.

    Slogo
    Member

    Tubeless explained…….

    Tubeless, no inner tube .

    None tubeless, has an inner tube.

    archiebald
    Member

    Hi
    Pitchpro2011, friends you ride with???? Either your being completly honest or your friends have the patience of saints because you must bore them sensless with all your mindless dribble?!?!?!

    Have you ever heard such cr$p come from one person and what’s all this about poking a steak!!!!!!

    It’s been entertaining that I agree.

    archiebald
    Member

    Sorry *Either your “NOT” being completly honest

    thomthumb
    Member

    used to run 40-45 on rear.

    is this your road bike?

    andyrm
    Member

    I run the same pressures as when I ran tubes (35 rear, 28 front), but there’s definitely more grip. Never been interested in that low pressure thing, don’t like the “squirming on the rim” feel.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    pitchpro2011 – Member

    in short low pressure in a tubesless tyre is at least as firm as 10psi more with tubes.most here will already know this

    Nope.

    clubber
    Member

    I’ve noticed the same phenomenon using the same tyres – just converted to tubeless – to get the same amount of squish (eg similar contact patch size) when riding, I dropped from 40psi to about 20-25.

    My idea (and I haven’t really spent the time thinking it through in great enough detail to say that it’s the right answer):

    An innertube is elastic and when pumped up inside a tyre, is stretched. As such you have a certain amount of pressure in the tube just to get it to fill the tyre.

    You don’t have that with tubeless – the air always acts directly on the tyre and isn’t being compressed by anything (until you sit on the bike)

    So, however much pressure it takes inside the tube to get it to expand to fill the tyre is the difference.

    Maybe πŸ™‚

    Trimix
    Member

    Your squeezing a different tyre.

    Its different because its made differently, you know, to hold the air in without a tube.

    So of course it “feels” different. Its probably got a thicker sidewall, probably because it has to be air proof.

    clubber
    Member

    I’ve noticed the same phenomenon using the same tyres – just converted to tubeless

    Trimix
    Member

    You spent money on it, of course it feel better πŸ™‚

    Or can someone provide some science ?

    clubber
    Member

    I tried to above. I’m waiting for someone more bothered than me to say whether it’s actually right πŸ˜€

    (FWIW, I don’t think tubeless feels better. I just don’t get pinch flats and punctures seal themselves)

    ndthornton
    Member

    clubbers explination sounds plausible – but…

    it definately doesnt take 15-20 PSI to expand a tube to the shape of a tyre which is the difference we’re talking about (unless your using a racing bike tube!)

    and

    even if it did take say 15psi to just touch the outer wall of the tyre – if you push your thumb into the tyre you would still feel 15 psi worth of resistance from the tube(Not 0 PSI as would be required for this to explanation to be correct).

    next….

    clubber
    Member

    Yeah, I did realise that was a flaw but it’s the only explanation I could be bothered to come up with πŸ˜‰

    swingbing
    Member

    Without the tube you are pressurising a slightly greater volume. The tubeless setup should therefore feel slightly softer at a given pressure, but you must have had your thumb recently calibrated to pick up on this.

    ndthornton
    Member

    what about all the sealant – that takes up volume.

    hilton83
    Member

    That makes no sense, you let the tyre down until it “felt” right?

    Premier Icon richmtb
    Subscriber

    A tyre (well more specifically the air in it) is basically a spring.

    By taking out the tube and running tubeless you are removing resistance (rubber) from the spring so it will feel plusher for a given spring rate (pressure)

    in case you haven’t noticed the clowns giving me shit are the guys I ride with. clearly alot of people notice this ,however, they always dismiss my opinion as nonsense despite having a combined iq of 50. πŸ˜‰

    I just bought a ceramic and titanium headset…. which they scoff at even though the expensive shit bearings they just bought broke within 2 weeks.
    much love you tossers xxx

    Waderider
    Member

    This thread desperately needs someone with a full grasp of physics.

    I am not that man. However, I am a man who says tubeless is rubbish and a faff.

    simple really when you think about It…..take 2 things exactly the same but in extreme to highlight…… a brick and a flat piece of wood weighing exactly the same. The wood even though being the same weight and force will offer more resistance from sinking in a swimming pool because the surface area is greater….the volume is greater. in the tubeless tyre there is a larger surface of air pressing against a flat surface.

    Premier Icon rickon
    Subscriber

    However, I am a man who says tubeless is rubbish and a faff. doesn’t have a big enough track pump or a bottle of Fairy.

    πŸ˜›

    duirdh
    Member

    So, can anyone explain| did this retard fill his tyre with bricks or wood?

    chris_db
    Member

    Hans Dampfs are nice?

    shindiggy
    Member

    Sighs at lack of elementry physics, wood is generally less dense than bricks that’s why it floats, some woods do not float.

    When something like a log of wood is put into water, it pushes down on the water and the water moves aside to make room for the object. When there is enough water to push back up against the object with the same force as the object is pushing down, then the object will float!

    That’s why a piece of wood that is lightweight for its size will float in a big body of water, like the ocean or a river. However, that same piece of wood might not float in a different smaller body of water.

    fourbanger
    Member

    How much pressure does it take to inflate an inertube to the size of a tyre? 10 psi or so…….

    fourbanger
    Member

    ……but that’s elastic deformation.

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