Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 117 total)
  • Time trialling on a MTB. Does anyone do it ?
  • Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Alright then, it's like entering a DH course on an XC race bike. I've done the Cwmcarn DH on my 80mm Kona Heihei with the saddle all the way up, but it was slow and involved a lot of mincing.. and I didn't do the road drop 🙂

    Premier Icon ampthill
    Subscriber

    OK fair points. Particularly as I never did a time trial on a proper bike….

    glenp
    Member

    Nothing like as far apart as DH bike and XC. My "street" mtb is only about 3% slower than my (admittedly mudguard wearing) road bike, and a full TT bike isn't going to be much better than 10% quicker on top of that, esp if the rider lacks the flexibility to get really really low.

    Good tight clothing, take all the bottle cages and other crap off, flip the stem to get low, flat bars, 25mm tyres, 100+psi – those details are worth just as much as the difference between, say, a regular road bike and a full TT bike.

    convert

    With all due respect it sounds like you are trying to be difficult for the sake of it.

    Its fairly simple, if you want to ride a TT that a club promotes and you have to be a member of a club just join the club or one of your choice, our club costs £12 a year to join and is on that list, its hardly bank breaking amounts of money or a hardship to do so.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    tragically1969

    do we have to quote each others names to talk to each other 🙄

    Nope, not being difficult – just giving the facts and advice – that's what this thread was about after all. If you bothered to read back all I ever said is you will have to look to join a club to play the game. I never said it was a big deal or expensive having to join a club, for a day or a year, just that you have to. Just admit that you were wrong and we'll be done with it 😉

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Glenp – 10% is a lot in time trialling. The difference between 25 minutes and 27.5 minuts is big.

    And yes you can do a lot by changing tyres and whatnot.. but you still won't be competitive and you'll lose out to people who aren't as fit as you.

    glenp
    Member

    Didn't say 10% wasn't a lot. I said the difference was way smaller than picking your way down a DH course on an XC race bike.

    Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge themselves. On the flip side of what you're saying is the question of how can you be satisfied that you went out and bought faster equipment than someone else? What is this, competitive shopping?

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Plus, as lots of people have already said, most people want to challenge themselves

    Well fine – but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!

    Well fine – but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!

    Because its not a under race conditions ?

    glenp
    Member

    Well, ok. Still think what you're saying would only make sense if everyone had identical equipment. Provided the mtb is roughly in the ball-park then the rider is likely to beat at least some riders on regular road bikes, and indeed poorly set-up TT bikes. Which would be fun.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    competitive shopping – you are talking about triathlon now!

    The problem I always had with the testing yourself method was there were so many parameters. When you get half good the differences between a float ride and a total mare can be a handful of seconds. There is little point in judging a ride on one course with a ride on another but even a ride on the same course will vary between if it was raining (some rain good, lots bad), if it was windy & if so in what direction, how much traffic there was (traffic is good in the f*cked world of TT) and how much training had I done in the week previously. Then when you factor in the latest widget on your bike or a slight change in your position and its impossible to really know for certain if it was you or another factor that made you faster/slower than last time.

    In the end for most, no matter how much you don't want it to be, it's a competition against others, even if you are just ranking your performance by those you beat and those who beat you. And yes, buying speed does become a factor too. Mind you there is nothing cooler that catching your minute man with him on a disc and no better excuse for your mediocrity that blaming your kit.

    Oh, and in some races 10% might see you go from first to last and at high speeds you might have to nearly double your power output to increase your speed by 10%.

    Olly
    Member

    I did the Ystwyth CC "turn up and try" day a few years ago.
    couple of guys turned up on DH bikes with supertacky tyres on.
    didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    didnt come last either, which was a bit shocking

    😯

    Premier Icon Tiger6791
    Subscriber

    I was on my Mercian Touring bike when I was over taken by an MTB on the Solway 10 & 25 a couple of years ago.

    If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    If you're on a TT on a mountain bike and overtake people you are a hero and that's a reason to do it.

    Fair point!

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    tragically1969 – Member

    Well fine – but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!

    Because its not a under race conditions ?

    But is it race conditions if you don't care about the people riding at the same time? If all race conditions means is that an old boy gives you a feel up at the start whilst trying to grab your seatpost (do they all do that or just the DOM down our way?) and someone else gets to press the stopwatch button at the end I'm not sure I'd be much more motivated than riding the course on any other day. We are all different I guess.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    I agree, convert. I have done TTs for training purposes really, but also because I did want someone to beat. The course (Cardiff) was quite hilly tho, which made the whole thing a lot slower in terms of actual road speed, which to me made it more boring. I'd rather be blasting along a flat road at 25mph than climbing a hill at 15.

    Course what I really want is track racing. *sigh*

    Surfr
    Member

    Who was that Olly?

    I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

    I could never get the motivation to do a TT without a number on my back and as such i don't consider a time a time unless its done under race conditions.

    Each to their own and all that……….

    Premier Icon Tiger6791
    Subscriber

    Well fine – but why turn up to an event? Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!

    Because it's fun and nothing makes you go faster than seeing that guy 2 mins ahead of you……..

    and although you may not be the fastest there are other prizes

    Longest on course
    Closest to 20mph average
    etc.

    glenp
    Member

    I only said 10% as a for instance – no idea what the difference would actually be, except I am certain it wouldn't be as big as some people are suggesting. Also, the difference between bike type can be dwarfed by the difference between clothing and position – bit like the tri-bars on normal drop barred bike thing, where you'd be better off being lower and the narrowness of tri-bars is us the final nth to go for after you've gone for the big stuff.

    Premier Icon Speshpaul
    Subscriber

    Race conditions – its an event, you get the buzz. How many people do the MM to win? ten teams? Its an event for everyone else, they can get in the groove. (an extreme example i know.)
    If that doesn't appeal thats fine. its easy enough to set a route and start your watch.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I think we do agree – I could never give myself a nosebleed through all out effort (I have done a number of times) without a number on my back. But as soon as I have a number on my back I want to beat other people with numbers on their backs! What I couldn't do is have a number on my back and not care about how my performance ranked alongside other people with numbers on their backs!

    My current problem is that now I have physically lost my competitive edge through too much work and a few injury niggles, the people whose numbered back I would realistically be competing against are people I have no real passion about beating.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    I think on an MTB your biggest problem would be road position, then possibly wheel size assuming you have your tyres sorted. My old skool 90s Orange P7 stretched out fully rigid thing with 23mm slicks on it had a decent position but was a hell of a lot slower than a road bike.

    Well I say hell of a lot – it was noticeably and annoyingly slower.

    EDIT: re the event buzz.. I found that at the Cardiff 10 anyone I could pass I could pass very easily, and there was no-one else within sight to chase. Anyone who passed me did so easily too. I suppose like always I am in that pocket between weekenders and fast riders. Which put me about 9th out of 27 ish.. although that included women and a couple of kids too 🙂

    Olly
    Member

    Bayonette (Tim)
    twas in my first year

    shoei
    Member

    I help marshal the TT's at my club. They do "open TT's". Pays your £2 and get to ride. Think that covers you for day membership.
    Not seen any one use an MTB except on the hill climb.
    See a few on CX bikes and one lass last year did a 10 mile road TT on a hybrid.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    Glen – I'll give it a whirl for you this weekend. As the owner of a disced up Cervelo P3c and a long travel Fs with a hardtail, a cx bike and a road bike in between I'll do a flying mile on each and compare the times and report back. Then I'll ride the cervelo in baggies and the fs in a skinsuit and see if that makes a difference 😛

    Surfr
    Member

    Bennett? 36:04 on the first of the year 2005? To be fair he was a bit lucky. 2 youths and a lady behind. One with a 59.44!

    Premier Icon Tiger6791
    Subscriber

    skinsuit and see if that makes a difference

    See I reckon it does make a bit of a difference. I don't have a TT bike but even putting on old crappy Shamals, tubs and tri bars on the road bike makes it feel quicker.

    If I do a TT on the tourer I even take the racks off!

    tron
    Member

    Are TTs conducted on open roads or not? Just wondering how my times to do 10 miles on the road (with a few junctions) would compare to a TT course. Are they point to point or loops?

    Surfr
    Member

    Ours are all out-and-back type routes. Turning points are either roundabouts or a marshal point on quiet roads.

    tron
    Member

    So out and back is all on one road, with a turn to come back at some point?

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    The start and finish have to be quite close together (I forget how far) in terms of distance and height. Standing start, flying finish. Open roads – the super fast boys like a nice busy Saturday afternoon on the A1 where there are plenty of lorries pushing a ton of air in front and vortex behind to give them a hand.

    Sometimes out and back

    Sometimes circular (sporting)

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Tron, they are open roads yes. Often a dual carriageway with a roundabout, or some other place where you can turn round without slowing too much. Always out and back, to negate wind etc. You can ride the same routes on your own if you like – most clubs will publish their route I suppose.

    Cardiff route started here and went west to the junction for Cowbridge then back to the start again.

    Surfr
    Member

    Lighthearted Shropshire TT with the Athertons.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    Aye different events are different, my local one is on largely quiet country roads it's good. It's £2 to enter, which means it's ideal for just going along, chewing the fat and pushing yourself harder than you would without a race number on.

    Molgrips if you can really just go and ride 10 miles at true TT pace then you're either no good at TTing, or you should do better in MTB races. As folk have said, 95% of people are never going to win a race, why should that stop them entering.

    TTs are just about beating your personal time, even if you did it on a DH bike you could monitor your progress.

    As for the difference certain 'enhancements' make, read this.

    A TT bike with aero bars uses 50W less than a road bike with drop bars, that's massive!

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    I ride very well indeed in MTB XC races. I just climb too slowly because I am too fat! Other than that, my riding is top class 🙂 And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you. And you won't do that if they are on a road bike or TT and you are not.

    And I am indeed not good at TTing. Just boring. Nothing to spark my imagination and get me going.. no fight.

    Talkemada
    Member

    Just find 10 miles of road and time yourself!

    I did this a few years ago, in central London, on my basic little road bike. Did it in about 29 minutes, which I was pleased with, but I'd like to give it a go on a road without cars, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, etc. I'm sure I could save a good few minutes if I could keep up a constant pace, rather than having to slow down then speed up for lights, take it easy when there's lots of cars around, etc.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Subscriber

    And it's not about winning, it's about beating those close to you

    But there will be people to beat who are probably slower than you would be on an equivalent bike. Again though, TTs aren't really just about beating other people!

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Member

    Definitely, tm. 29 minute in traffic is decent!

    EDIT: Isn't there an outdoor cycling track in East London somewhere?

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