Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 59 total)
  • Tightening headset after every ride !?
  • Premier Icon pymwymis
    Free Member

    Des anyone else get this ?

    Headset currently tightened to 12Nm and stem bolts to 6Nm.

    Every time I get back from a ride I notice play and have to re-tighten…..FWIW the rides are general XC not downhill in any big way. On the basis that I’m going to the alps in a couple of weeks what should I be doing to correct the issue (lor should I consider this normal ?)

    Frame is Liteville 301, forks X-Fusion Sweeps, stem Spank 5omm with matching top cap and bolt.

    The purpose of taking this bike on relatively gentle rides was for shakedown and to highlight any issues. This seems to be the only one of any concern of concern so far.

    Help !

    Premier Icon andyl
    Free Member

    Do you have enough clearance between the top of the stem (or any spacers on top of the stem) and the top of the steerer? There should be about 3mm clearance as the underside of the top cap fits into the steerer slightly. If you don’t have clearance then the top cap bottoms out on the steerer.

    Also check your star nut (or expander plug) is secure.

    Oh and sorry to check the obvious but you are tightening the top cap first then the stem bolts and fully undoing them when adjusting and your headset cups are fully in the frame?

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    12 nm, surely your steering would be pretty stiff.
    I tighten my top cap to 2nm lowest setting on my torque driver,
    after reading some wear that 1.6nm was about right for most headsets.

    Are you sure there is not a slight knock in your fork legs.

    Premier Icon monkeyboyjc
    Full Member

    Is the head tube quite short? I had the same issue with a set of white brothers and a canyon with 100mm (ish) long head tube – the wedge part of the headset set just on top of the tapered part of the steerer.

    Premier Icon eddie11
    Full Member

    Slipping star nut?

    Premier Icon scaled
    Free Member

    At the risk of stating the bleedin’ obvious, threadloc?

    Premier Icon prawny
    Full Member

    Do you have enough clearance between the top of the stem (or any spacers on top of the stem) and the top of the steerer?

    This is a good suggestion, a mate had the same issue troubling him for weeks after a new stem, he came to mine and I gave him a 5mm spacer, cured instantly. (Well after it was fitted!)

    Premier Icon andyl
    Free Member

    Also de-grease the steerer tube and stem with some IPA or similar. Grease from the headset can cause it to slip.

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    You are tightening the top cap first.

    Premier Icon sv
    Full Member

    The headset bolt is purely for preloading the headset bearings (bikes can run without a headset cap) and I normally set it so that there isnt any play in the steerer. As eddie11 suggests check the star nut then I would perhaps tighten the stem steerer bolts up a bit more. You could also try ‘roughin up’ the clamp are on the steerer tube to give the stem something to grip onto to.

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    Star nut should not matter once the stem is tightened it is only there to load the bearings .

    Premier Icon andyl
    Free Member

    Star nut should not matter once the stem is tightened it is only there to load the bearings

    That’s a good point. Was just looking for anything that could go wrong.

    Premier Icon reedspeed
    Free Member

    It’ll be ya star nut like has been suggested,nothing else it can be if it’s comin loose ,I take it the pinch bolts on the stem are nipped ??.

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    Remove the top cap, if there is a gap of roughly 3mm between top of steerer and top of the stem, it is not the problem .
    If the star nut is set below the top of the steerer (about 10mm), the star nut is not the problem.

    If above is correct I can’t see you getting 12 nm of preload with out jamming up the steering some what, unless you are doing up the stem before the top cap.

    But if the steerer and star nut are set correctly and it is fine after initial tightening but loose by the end of the ride then the stem may be slipping.

    Premier Icon elliott-20
    Free Member

    Steerer coming loose from the crown bonding?

    I’ve known this to happen on older Marzocchis but you never know.

    Premier Icon kcal
    Full Member

    forks crown race not seated properly, working loose?

    Premier Icon oldnpastit
    Full Member

    Evil invisible pixies undoing the bolts while you are riding. Wrap something around the headset to discourage them – liquorice is good as they hate it and get their tiny feet stuck in it.

    Or alternatively, not enough spacers, as above.

    Premier Icon mav12
    Free Member

    is the headset and all the various spacers and washers in the correct order i had this once and had put it together slightly wrong

    Premier Icon matther01
    Free Member

    Bearing/crown not sitting correctly? Had this with some new forks with hope bottom set…had me baffled for a week. Took it apart 4 times before it sat properly.

    Premier Icon pymwymis
    Free Member

    Great suggestions there, thanks.

    Fwiw,

    deffo more than 3mm clearance below top cap

    Agree 12nm is a lot (it didn’t start that way I just ramped it up to try to effect a cure)

    Yes, tightening up top cap before stem bolts.

    Threadloc a good idea, will try that.

    Not sure I should need (or want) to tighten the stem bolts to more than 6nm ?

    Will look at degreasing/roughening steerer.

    Fairly sure headset is seated correctly will check but wouldn’t this be fairly obvious and at 12nm surely they would be seated by now ?

    Premier Icon matther01
    Free Member

    Wasnt fairly obvious to me and had it screwed good and proper. It must have been out only a fraction but made a really bad knocking sound. I actually thought my forks were broken!

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    Agree 12nm is a lot (it didn’t start that way I just ramped it up to try to effect a cure)

    Squashed and knackered bearings?

    Take it all apart and start from scratch.
    Check the Crown race is right
    Check the bearings are still good
    Fit in order check each part is fitted right and moves properly as you go.
    Try another spacer above the stem (or adjust the spacer combo so that you have more steerer above to make sure your clamping bolts are on the steerer.
    Tighten it up.
    Do up the stem bolts tight.

    The only time I’ve had something similar was due to bearings on the way out and being away from a shop/tools to fit a new HS properly.

    Premier Icon pymwymis
    Free Member

    Jeez, you guys are up early ! I couldn’t sleep what’s your excuse ?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    it’s 2:30pm

    Premier Icon pymwymis
    Free Member

    Where ?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Free Member

    well it was 2:30 pm in Tasmania

    Premier Icon MatA
    Free Member

    Can you assess the play? Has the stem moved up the steerer, or are you able to twist bars, but there’s no movement in the headset. Is the lower crown race fully seated on the forks? If not, one ride can drive it down a tiny bit.

    Premier Icon hora
    Free Member

    This doesnt make sense. How old is the headset? Sits flush? Checked the headtube for cracks? Do the headset cups go in way too easily?

    I’d get it reinstalled and checked from scratch.

    I’ve fitted loadsof headsets. Axstretched headtube/worn h/set is my fear.

    Premier Icon superfli
    Full Member

    CSU (crown/Steerer unit) loose? I just had my crown/steerer replaced on my forks that were in for other damage. It explained why I had to keep tightening my HS until I crippled the bearings.

    Premier Icon wonkey_donkey
    Full Member

    i’ve had a headdoctor not pull up tightly enough that caused this – or a slipping SFN will do similar.

    Premier Icon tomd
    Full Member

    I had this happen recently when I changed forks. It was a superstar stem I had, and it was that was slipping. Even torqued up it wasn’t clamping enough. Swapped to a nother stem from the parts box and no problems. So maybe it was a case of a slack stem and slightly small steerer.

    Premier Icon Rockhopper
    Free Member

    Amazing how many people don’t understand how a headset works. One its preloaded correctly and the stem bolts done up tight then the SFN and top cap are redundant and can actually be removed if you wanted. A slipping SFN will not cause this guys problem.

    Premier Icon pymwymis
    Free Member

    Rockhopper yes that should be the case. 6nm on the stem bolts should be enough to prevent slippage shouldn’t it ?

    Hora, the headset is 100 miles old, cups are installed by Liteville at the factory so should be perfect.

    Common sense would seem to dictate slippage in stem. We’re not talking about a massive amount here but enough that I notice it’s changed from when it was last tightened down (after last ride). Front brake on and rocking gently you now it’s moving. Very annoying. May just take it all out and start from scratch as has been suggested.

    Premier Icon ChunkyMTB
    Free Member

    What make is it? Cane Creeks really need cranking down.

    Premier Icon suburbanreuben
    Free Member

    Amazing how many people don’t understand how a headset works. One its preloaded correctly and the stem bolts done up tight then the SFN and top cap are redundant and can actually be removed if you wanted. A slipping SFN will not cause this guys problem.

    Never be surprised…

    Premier Icon JoB
    Free Member

    Rockhopper – Member
    Amazing how many people don’t understand how a headset works. One its preloaded correctly and the stem bolts done up tight then the SFN and top cap are redundant and can actually be removed if you wanted. A slipping SFN will not cause this guys problem.

    i’ve had bikes with expander steerer bungs that have slowly slipped up over time causing the headset to go loose, so while this theory is often trotted out in the real world it’s not the case

    it’s happened several times too, replaced the bung with something more secure and the problem’s gone away

    so it *could* be that, could be all sorts of other things

    Premier Icon suburbanreuben
    Free Member

    Rockhopper – Member
    Amazing how many people don’t understand how a headset works. One its preloaded correctly and the stem bolts done up tight then the SFN and top cap are redundant and can actually be removed if you wanted. A slipping SFN will not cause this guys problem.
    i’ve had bikes with expander steerer bungs that have slowly slipped up over time causing the headset to go loose, so while this theory is often trotted out in the real world it’s not the case

    it’s happened several times too, replaced the bung with something more secure and the problem’s gone away

    so it *could* be that, could be all sorts of other things

    kinda proves his point…

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    The only way the star nut would cause this problem would be if the continued over tightening of the top cap meant that the star nut had been pulled all the way up the steerer to the point it was hard against the top cap, thus allowing the op to get lots of torque with out preloading the bearings .

    But this would mean he would not be able solve the issue temporarily before the ride.

    The crown race not being seated hard against the crown would do this until the constant tightening and riding eventually pushed it down hard against the crown.

    Premier Icon njee20
    Full Member

    i’ve had bikes with expander steerer bungs that have slowly slipped up over time causing the headset to go loose, so while this theory is often trotted out in the real world it’s not the case

    Yep, I removed the bung from a carbon steerer (because they weigh loads) after preloading the headset and tightening the stem, and the headset came loose. Likewise tried pre-loading a headset with a big threaded rod and some washers, with no SFN/top cap, and the headset comes loose.

    So no, it shouldn’t, but it does. I’d guess the vibrations are enough that the stem moves by half a mm or so, which is enough to cause play.

    Premier Icon chip
    Free Member

    Yep, I removed the bung from a carbon steerer (because they weigh loads) after preloading the headset and tightening the stem, and the headset came loose. Likewise tried pre-loading a headset with a big threaded rod and some washers, with no SFN/top cap, and the headset comes loose.

    Could this be because a carbon steerer is flexible and the bung works not only to preload the bearings but also to reinforce the steerer against the crushing forces of the stem.

    Like when using poly pipe for plumbing you have to fit inserts at joints to strengthen the pipe and prevent future leaks.

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