Those big cats out in the woods…

“well documented that there are/have been wallabies and caipubara (sp) roaming the peaks”

Dunno about the Capybura, but the wallabies were released by a zoo (can’t remember which one, if anybody can be bothered to look it up it’s quite well documented)during the Second World war.

As he said, if they’re out there they have to eat, sh1t and walk and after 2 months going around Exmoor and Bodmin there was no evidence at all.

And we all know that Exmoor and Bodmin Moor make up the greater part of the UK. Jeez, what a daft thing to say. Lynx have certainly been killed by cars in this country, and Puma aren’t that big, really; they’re the smallest of the ‘big cats’, and dull coloured, so most people would barely notice them.

The cougar (Puma concolor), also known as puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount or panther, depending on the region, is a mammal of the family Felidae, native to the Americas. This large, solitary cat has the greatest range of any large wild terrestrial mammal in the Western Hemisphere,[3] extending from Yukon in Canada to the southern Andes of South America. An adaptable, generalist species, the cougar is found in every major American habitat type. It is the second heaviest cat in the Western Hemisphere, after the jaguar. Although large, the cougar is most closely related to smaller felines and is closer genetically to the Domestic cat than to true lions.

A capable stalk-and-ambush predator, the cougar pursues a wide variety of prey. Primary food sources include ungulates such as deer, elk, moose, and bighorn sheep, as well as domestic cattle, horses and sheep, particularly in the northern part of its range. It will also hunt species as small as insects and rodents. This cat prefers habitats with dense underbrush and rocky areas for stalking, but it can also live in open areas. The cougar is territorial and persists at low population densities. Individual territory sizes depend on terrain, vegetation, and abundance of prey. While it is a large predator, it is not always the dominant species in its range, as when it competes for prey with other predators such as the jaguar, grey wolf, American Black Bear, and the grizzly bear. It is a reclusive cat and usually avoids people. Attacks on humans remain fairly rare, despite a recent increase in frequency.[4]
Source: Wiki.
One thing we have in great abundance is prey; rabbits, small deer, birds.
I have no problem believing Puma/Cougar, but I have a problem with Panther and other Big Cats, although black Panthers were popular status pets.

Riber zoo released the ones in the peak I think, in fact didn’t they escape??

And we all know that Exmoor and Bodmin Moor make up the greater part of the UK. Jeez, what a daft thing to say. Lynx have certainly been killed by cars in this country

Except these are areas where there are significant numbers of “sightings”. These were two professional Canadian trappers who spent two months going round Exmoor. Compared with British Colombia it’s a tiny area and they covered it all. There was no evidence of scat or paw prints and they really wanted to find it as they were on a huge bonus from channel 4 if they could prove it. You say Lynx have been killed by cars, what is your source for this?

The UK is a tiny country with a lot of people in it. Everyone has a camera phone with them these days, but still no-one has taken a picture which shows more than a dark shadow about a mile away. Sorry, but I think if they were out there then we would have proof by now.

Hmm… if there are only one or two animals the evidence would be spread pretty thin even across Exmoor, to be honest. Couple that with loads of walkers and sheep and whatnot trampling tracks, and rain washing away poo, doesn’t seem all that improbable that they would exist and not be found by two blokes in two months.

This look like a moggie to you? I’m not sure but it looks jeffin big, especially as the fur’s all matted.

Actually the Puma is the largest of the small cats and is bigger than quite a few of the big cats. Considering how few leopards, jaguars and pumas are seen by natives of the their habitats I wouldn’t be the least surprised if there were breeding populations of large cats scattered across the UK.

I think it was Coypu, not Capybara, that were released from fur farms in the ’70s…

One way to find them if they are there would be to bring in a professional hunter with dogs specifically trained to hunt cougars. If they are around, especially in a reasonably small region compartively, the dogs would be very likely to find them.
I have a friend in Colorado whose neighbor is a professional mountain lion hunter/tracker and his dogs don’t often fail in the vast San Juan mountain range of S. Colorado.
Probably not terribly cost effective shipping a pack of dogs and hunter across the Atlantic—but it’s pretty amazing what TV stations/news organizatons will spend for an excusive story.

Interesting detail on the cougars, including size, etc. can be seen at:http://www.nps.gov/brca/naturescience/mountainlion.htm

Here in New Mexico, there have been reports over the last 20 years of sightings of Jaguars in the SW corner of the state–it was pretty much ignored or considered mistaken identity (i.e. alcohol or other recreational drug induced)–until about 5 years ago, an experienced hunter got several pictures of one and about 2 years ago one was was caught in a trap in SE. Arizona that later died in captivity. Running into one of those would get my attention.

There was a report of a Lynx hit by a car in Norfolk, which is what I was thinking of, plus there are these:
– 1991 – A Lynx was shot dead in Norfolk by a Devon Farmer

– 1989 – In Shropshire a Jungle Cat was fatally injured in a road crash

– 1988 – In Devon a Leopard Cat was shot

– 1988 – In Hampshire a Swamp Cat was killed crossing a road

– 1987 – On the Isle of Wight a Leopard Cat was shot

CountZero–Based on the dates of those occurances, it could have coincided with people releasing wild animals they had as pets when the UK law went into effect outlawing keeping wild animals—-I don’t know the life expectancy of large cats, but I would imagine it could run to 20 years in a location where they didn’t have much in the way of natural predators (and lots of deer, sheep, small animals to eat)–the large cats are very adept at staying out of sigh. If you think of how the population/urban spread has increased since then, potential habitat has certainly decreased markedly.

We have our own native species of wild cat. It may not be very large, but how many of Joe Public have seen one in the wild?

To be honest, the majority of our native mammals are less than obvious in the countryside! I probably see foxes a couple of times a year (and there are lots where I live), have never seen an otter, polecat or pine marten and am pleasantly surprised on the occasions when I see badger, hare or weasel.

Regarding cameras- you’d have to be face to face before you get a clear shot with anything other than very expensive pro kit…. As I posted in the puppy thread, I struggle to get a good shot of our spaniel because she never keeps still long enough! Couple that with distance, say a couple hundred yards and it’s no surprise photos ar blurred or indistinct.

So nothing for 20 years then. Given that the life expectancy of a Leopard is 20 years I think it’s pretty certain that anything released after the laws prohibiting keeping dangerous animals is long since dead. Oh and I only live in Kent, but see deer, foxes and badgers pretty much every week during the warmer months and I saw a family of boar at Bedgebury about 5 years ago.

FWIW, the one I saw was in ’98 at a distance of about 25-30 metres, moved like a cat and was definately bleck! It’s very easy to write things off, but judging from where it had been sighted, it could quite easily have been some moneybags’ illicit pet.

If big cats are around its suprising that one has never been put up by a pack of fox hounds, you’d need a cougar with some big kahuna’s not to run from a pack of hounds.

As ocrider suggests, just cos it’s illegal to have these pets doesn’t mean that people aren’t keeping them anyway and then releasing them when someone threatens to shop them. Or they escape.