This wheel size thing – no more XL Specialized Enduro in 26"?

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  • This wheel size thing – no more XL Specialized Enduro in 26"?
  • grum
    Member

    It’s amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don’t immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing – riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

    29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing – 29ers winning a race proves everything. 😕

    It’s amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don’t immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing – riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

    29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing – 29ers winning a race proves everything.

    The exact opposite can be said for the 26″ crew,

    Not all 29ers are the same, just like 26ers.

    As for the racing, the best rider wins.

    grum
    Member

    The exact opposite can be said for the 26″ crew,

    Not on this thread. The whole concept of a ’26” crew’ is bloody ridiculous. I’m sure 29ers have their merits, just don’t jump down someone’s throat if they say they don’t want one, as several people have done.

    asterix
    Member

    grum wrote:

    It’s amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don’t immediately spaff over every single 29er. Apparently riding a 29er and not liking it proves nothing – riding a 29er and liking it proves everything.

    29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing – 29ers winning a race proves everything.

    Spot on! And actually there’s only a very very small number of real 29er evangelists. – it’s just that they are really persistent.

    Premier Icon Shandy
    Subscriber

    Specialized obviously expect taller people to move over to 29ers, XL bikes are a small enough market already. An XL long-travel 29er with really short chainstays is probably going to sell well. Its interesting that they are up-sizing the whole bike and then obsessively shortening the chainstays. It will make the bike easier to handle for shorter people but it might actually compromise it for tall ones.

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Why are Specialized pushing the 29er so much?

    It’s not like they own the worldwide marker in 29er rims or something is it? They didn’t invent the genre, so can’t claim credit for that. You could argue it gives them some sort of unique selling point, but it doesn’t really. There are plenty of other 29ers out there. So, what’s in it for them.

    I’m naturally cynical, but even I’m beginning to wonder whether they just think they can build a better bike around the larger wheel.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    I have printed out the Geo of a 2011 XL Enduro for safe keeping – if I can’t find a bike I like in the right size off the shelf in two years time when its time to replace it, I’ll send it to Nicolai and get them to build me a Helius AM in the right size 😈

    And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me – I’m amazed people can go from a 26″ bike to a 29″ bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different! Otherwise what’s the point? 🙄

    Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same? No… why should wheels be any different?

    clubber
    Member

    FWIW, I think car park tests are a great way for feeling small differences between bikes.

    The trouble is that that doesn’t always translate to how they feel on the trail. A bike may feel noticeably stiffer for example in the car park but actually not really any different once you’re out on the trails…

    And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me – I’m amazed people can go from a 26″ bike to a 29″ bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different! Otherwise what’s the point?

    Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same? No… why should wheels be any different?

    +1

    Premier Icon roverpig
    Subscriber

    Do all tyres feel the same? All bar widths feel the same? All stem lengths feel the same?

    No, they feel different and you can tell that straight away. What is much harder to tell (without a much longer test) is whether one is better than the other.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    Agreed clubber and roverpig. Unless you are racing its all personnal preference anyway, a second or two over a 30min stage might be important to Nico – its not important to me. But what is a shame is that what starts out as a personnel choice becomes an enforced one due to corporate profitability and marketing… time will tell.

    sherry
    Member

    I have an XL enduro 26″ bike and its the best fitting bike I have had so far on a 26″ bike. I’m disappointed they have stopped making them as well as at 199cm tall its tough finding a bike in the geometry you want without making lots of compromises to make it fit! Its not like that with the Enduro, nice long head tube with slack angles and long wheelbase. Decent climbing and great descending.

    If the new spesh enduro in the 29er guise fits and works as good then great but I’m just not so sure. On very tight switchbacks, drops jumps etc will it be as good? I hope so as I will defo buy another when the time comes if it is.

    I own a 29er XC bike and it does feel very different, better fit and faster in certain circumstances but not so sure in technical tight stuff. Maybe I need to get used to it more. But I do think long travel 29ers will feel different and hopefully in good way!

    The choice would be good.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    29ers coming nowhere in a race proves nothing – 29ers winning a race proves everything.

    Point proven then. I wish I’d paid more attention to what Tracy was riding when I’ve seen her recently, as it appears the bike she won on isn’t yet for sale and has been getting lots of press – I suspect I might have got the scoop if I’d been paying attention – all I noticed is that she’s been riding a 29er.

    BTW I’m almost as far from a 29er evangelist as you can get – I don’t even own a bike with 29″ (or 650b) wheels.

    And maybe its all in my head but every bike I get on feels different to every other one to me – I’m amazed people can go from a 26″ bike to a 29″ bike and not feel a difference immediately, cos they are different!

    In just the same way one 26er is different to another. You can probably notice the difference in geometry and even the difference a slightly heavier wheel makes to steering, but if you can actually notice the difference in acceleration due to the larger wheels then you’re not human. Far more likely that you’re noticing differences in tyres and contact points which are far more significant to bike performance and feel.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    Sherry I agree – the combination of really short chainstays but long wheelbase seems to make for a super stable but fun and manouverable bike – there are not many bikes quite like it. My bike has a 48″ wheelbase, much longer for example than the Orange 223 I used to have despite the chainstays being way longer on the 223. And yet it is the easiest bike to get around Alpine switch backs I’ve had, its magic. I considered the Forward Geo Mondraker before buying the enduro, its the only thing quite like it I could find without going the custom Nicolai route and that was too expensive for what was still an experiment for me at that point. Now I know it works. I don’t know for sure but would 29’er wheels kill the fun feeling that the bike retains despite its size, I don’t know.

    JCL
    Member

    For people who want to win, 15th & 16th isn’t really competitive.

    Wasn’t it you telling us how 29er’s were going to rule the EWS?

    LOL! Tell that to the World Champion DH riders and guys like Adam Craig who were behind them.

    I didn’t say they would win. Just maybe surprise a few people on 29″ trail bikes.

    wobbliscott
    Member

    Where I struggle with this is why is there a debate at all. Many alternative options live happily side by side in harmony in cycling. Take frames. You can get alloy, carbon, steel, even bamboo. I don’t hear any arguments trying to polo rise everyone to frame materials. They each have their own pro’s and cons. I really don’t see how wheels need be any different. I’ve had 26ers and 29er and like them both and personally think the pro’s and cons touted around at each are much over hyped and in some cases are academic and simply not noticeable in the real world, or just simply BS. Lets end this madness now. Each to their own and lets get on with it.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
    Subscriber

    It’s amazing how sensitive/aggressive the 29er evangelists are. It seems to get them very upset if you don’t immediately spaff over every single 29er

    nothing compared to a 26″ rider desperately defending their wheel size.

    You do realize that we are winding you up don’t you? It’s becoming a bit too easy though.

    Really, no one cares what size wheel you ride, ride for fun, not for fashion

    ir12daveor
    Member

    If you are riding for fun what bike wins races in the hands of a professional rider has no bearing on what is going to be the most fun ride for a recreational rider. The most fun bike I own will never win any races on the Enduro circuit (26in 66deg HA Hardtail) but it is such a blast to ride. At the moment I ride it more than any of my other bikes.

    If someone wins an XC race, a DH race or an Enduro race on a different bike that doesn’t mean it’s going to be fun for me to ride that bike. The pros can make anything work for one thing and in any sport the fastest most aggressive tool in the hands of the pros is not necessarily what is best for the masses.

    On the 29er thing. I’ve done direct comparison on 26″ Stumpjumper Evo and 29″ Stumpjumper Evo. For me the 26″ bike is hands down the more fun bike to ride (subjective I know). I didn’t time any runs so it could well be that the 29″ was faster, but the winning bike is the one that left me with a bigger smile at the bottom of the trail. A friend feels that 29ers are fun for him and that’s his choice.

    What I don’t like is companies taking the decision out of my hands. It looks like many companies are not going to make 26″ AM and Enduro bikes for 2014 and this is something that I find pretty bad. We the customer should be able to choose, not be told what we want.

    Premier Icon ddmonkey
    Subscriber

    And that sums it up brilliantly for me – it seems that advent of the bigger wheels is going to reduce the choice in the all-rounder category of bike that many of us like to ride for fun, particularly in larger frame sizes. I’m so glad I managed to get my bike when I did. I don’t mind what size wheel people choose to ride I am a fan of the choice of wheel sizes, but a bit like religion I have my own preference and I don’t want anybody else’s preference forced upon me.

    No, they feel different and you can tell that straight away. What is much harder to tell (without a much longer test) is whether one is better than the other.

    Absolutely – very quick to feel ‘different’, some time to adapt, much more difficult to assess ‘better’ as better in one area normally means worse in another.

    I was actually quite surprised by how noticable the difference was. I don’t think it was the best 29’er bike in the world and the wheels were pretty heavy, which would explain the feel so it wasn’t just down the wheel size I’m sure.

    You’ll also be quite supprised to hear the maths doesn’t add up. The slower rotation (it’s rotating 10% slower at any given speed) of a 29er wheel cancels out the increaced diameter. The increaded weight is relavent,

    26″x2.35 Hans Dampf is 760g
    29″x2.35 is 850g

    So that’s 90g (plus 40-50g for the rim). But one thing to note is that you can potentialy drop a tyre (width) size when going up wheel size and maintain the same contact patch size and cushioning/suspension/whatever, a 29er 2.25 (a 2.1 would be closer to 10% smaller, but I don’t want accusing of bias) NN is 650g, saving 100g/wheel! So the maths/physics doesn’t suppourt the idea that 29ers would accelerate slower.

Viewing 22 posts - 41 through 62 (of 62 total)

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