This type of thing really boils my wee

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  • This type of thing really boils my wee
  • thegreatape
    Member

    Possible motives – to stop it taking lambs or young game birds, depending on where it is?

    Pigface
    Member

    At this time of year?????? πŸ™„

    thegreatape
    Member

    Eagles live longer than one year πŸ™„ πŸ™„

    Pigface
    Member

    Yeah I guess how remiss of me to not understand please accept my humble apologies.

    Pigface
    Member

    Very good of you.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    need to get the wolves back, keep them deer in check .

    dashed
    Member

    Seems pretty unsubstantiated to me. Yes, it could have been an illegal trap. Which may or may not have been set by a gamekeeper. It might have been set by a farmer with no intent of catching the eagle. Equally, it could have been a vehicle or a million and one other things.

    dab
    Member

    Makes me really sad that somebody has gone to these
    Lengths to try and kill a beautiful bird like this

    I’m not an ornithologist but I do enjoy watching birds of prey

    Hope they catch the scum who did this !!

    csb
    Member

    dashed – read the report about the gps tracker and the movements. They know exactly where it happened and looks very likely that the bird was transported once injured in a car to a layby.

    Pigface
    Member

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-19698139

    I have met some good game keepers and also met some who were utter twunts, what possible motive is there for doing this?

    eruptron
    Member

    thegreatape – Member
    Possible motives – to stop it taking lambs or young game birds, depending on where it is?

    And this would be justification?
    Lets be somewhat realistic. Eagles are hardly going to decimate the population of lambs,game birds or small children.

    Total scumbags!

    thegreatape
    Member

    And this would be justification?

    No. A motive isn’t always justified.

    Lets be somewhat realistic. Eagles are hardly going to decimate the population of lambs,game birds or small children.

    The figures will vary depending on who you listen to of course, and then vary further depending on type of raptor, type of prey and location. A study by Stirling University estimated that the % loss from raptor predation for various combinations of predator/prey varied between 5 and 24%, so in some cases significantly worse than decimation.

    The figures will vary depending on who you listen to of course, and then vary further depending on type of raptor, type of prey and location. A study by Stirling University estimated that the % loss from raptor predation for various combinations of predator/prey varied between 5 and 24%, so in some cases significantly worse than decimation.

    what in the name of all thats holy are you talking about? Do you understand how % works?

    Pigface
    Member

    significantly worse than decimation

    What does that mean?

    thegreatape
    Member

    The proportion of the population of different species of game bird estimated to be lost to predation by different raptors varies between 5 and 24%, depending on what game bird, what raptor and what location, according to a study by Stirling University.

    Eg. 5% of the population of game bird A are taken by raptor X in area 1.

    Or 24% of game bird B are taken by raptor Y in area 2.

    What does that mean?

    That the losses, in some cases, are significantly worse than 10%. (Depends how you interpret decimation πŸ˜‰ ).

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    Let’s just remind ourselves that while “decimate” once meant to kill every tenth person or something along those lines, it is now taken to mean to destroy a large proportion of something. Y’know, in case anyone fancies themselves as a bit of a smartarse.

    EDIT: Oh, it seems somebody has been checking dictionaries and then ninja editing.

    thegreatape
    Member

    Indeed, I only knew the traditional real definition until today πŸ™‚

    thegreatape have you got a link for this paper you’re quoting?

    Pigface
    Member

    So you really are saying killing Golden Eagles or any raptor is ok because they may or may not kill more than 10% of Grouse that are going to be shot for fun. You are a strange little man.

    What do the statistics say about Golden Eagles taking lambs?

    deadlydarcy
    Member

    It’s the original definition. It’s been taken to mean “destroy a large proportion of” for a long long time. In fact, I’ve never known it to mean anything else in modern parlance; presumably to the annoyance of pedants. But generally, pedants aren’t big fans of language evolving. πŸ™‚

    No pigface… He’s trolling. He didn’t ever say that it was OK he’s just putting an argument out there to make people upset.

    IanMunro
    Member

    So you really are saying killing Golden Eagles or any raptor is ok because they may or may not kill more than 10% of Grouse that are going to be shot for fun. You are a strange little man.

    Unless I missed something, he’s never said it’s ok, he’s given reasons why people may do it. There’s a pretty obvious difference.
    You owe him an apology there really.

    Pigface
    Member

    3rd post on the this page should cover it Mr Munro.

    thegreatape
    Member

    thegreatape have you got a link for this paper you’re quoting?

    This lady http://www.sbes.stir.ac.uk/people/park/ and scroll to the bottom, it’s about half way down her list of publications, a 2008 one.

    So you really are saying killing Golden Eagles or any raptor is ok because they may or may not kill more than 10% of Grouse that are going to be shot for fun.

    No. Nowhere have a said it’s ok. Since (a small) part of my job has involved prosecuting people who do it I think it’s fair to say I’m against it.

    You, in your opening post, wondered what motives people have for killing raptors. I told you what one of the motives is. It you have made the leap from me knowing why people do it to me condoning it, then that’s a reflection on your ability to think.

    You are a strange little man.

    And you are what’s known, up here, as a ‘star’.

    thegreatape
    Member

    No pigface… He’s trolling. He didn’t ever say that it was OK he’s just putting an argument out there to make people upset.

    Get a grip. He asked why people do it. I told him.

    How big are the respective populations of predators and prey and how big is the golden eagle population in Scotland? Also what species were these estmates based on?

    IanMunro
    Member

    Sorry, I genuinely don’t know what you mean pigface.
    3rd post: At this time of year??????

    I’m guessing that you disagree with the motivations he’s suggested. Why does this make him “a strange little man.”

    People on the whole don’t kill things without motives. Whether the motives are reasonable or correct are a different matter entirely, but it might be more productive not to jump down the throats of people offering some of the possible motivations.

    thegreatape
    Member

    DD – quite. Borders on infuriating!

    Pigface
    Member

    In the sky and twinkling brightly πŸ˜† I will take that thanks. I too have worked on prosecutions of pigeon fanciers who have poisoned raptors and after interviewing them I still don’t understand their motives.

    Get a grip. He asked why people do it. I told him.

    Possible misuse of the word “troll” but you haven’t exactly avoided winding him up.

    Anyway I’m enjoying looking at pine martins and reading about grouse predation so thanks.

    Pigface
    Member

    Sorry 5th post. Well saying lambs and young game birds is a strange answer at this time of year, maybe I was taking it to literally.

    thegreatape
    Member

    You’re welcome! Presumably the ulterior motive on the sporting estates is financial. Pigeon fanciers – who knows?

    thegreatape
    Member

    What I was getting at was that an eagle killed now can’t take any lambs or birds next spring.

    Perhaps the rolly eyes didn’t help. (Although you started it). πŸ˜€

    It’s an interesting subject, and a bigger priority than you might realise for the police up here.

    eruptron
    Member

    He may just be playing devils advocate which is fine there are two sides to any argument. This is purely the destruction of a creature in a horrible way and why to protect a business. What effect do these introduce species have on native insects and fauna when these birds are released on mass. It’s a poor game keeper who doesn’t embrace his environment because lets face it if they are in business does it not make sense to encourage people to come and see these beautiful birds bringing more money in the off shooting season. There are plenty of people out there who’d pay good money to see them!

    Pigeon fanciers

    When I was a lot younger I lived in a pub and men from the local pigeon club would occasionally talk about taking peregrine eggs. πŸ™ Nasty sods. Glad peregrines are doing better these days.

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    anagallis_arvensis – Member

    How big are the respective populations of predators and prey and how big is the golden eagle population in Scotland?

    Population of game birds- tons (red grouse population alone estimated at about 900,000). Population of sheep- bazillions (about 6.75 million in 2010). Population of golden eagles- estimated at 431 breeding pairs in 2010 (and slightly declining)

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