This Scottish Business

Now where’s that last slice of cake?

grum – Member
It makes me a bit sad to see otherwise intelligent, sensible, liberal people nationalistically crowing about ‘our oil’.

Tell that to the Saudis… 🙂

Not strictly true oldnpastin. The SNP do not wish to split the debt based on population. The want to split it based on who contributed to it, which in itself would open up a can of worms. The oil split works as it would anywhere else in the world. By national waters. The exact line could be disputed, but hard to argue that most of what remains would belong to Scotland.

Phrases you’ve never heard, No.1

“It’s Scotlands gas”

Er, actually i have heard that phrase.
Admittedly it was from the mouth of a loony SnG supporter who was loudly proclaiming how he liked to burn a Union Flag at Bannockburn so he wasn’t exactly a level playing field was he? 😆

oldnpastit – Member

Why is it that the snp want to divvy up oil based on geography but national debt based on population?

Because those are the rational ways to do it? If you like, we can divvy the national debt based on geography too, and it can all stay in London 😉

I reckon we should get some carthorses and divide David Cameron by population, who’s with me?

Why is it that the snp want to divvy up oil based on geography but national debt based on population?

Are they then getting a share of the other resources in the rUK
Do they get some of the shale gas, the goal etc ?

I’d rather divide Cameron geographically , so that all of him stays in the south east of England. Apologies to the good people of that area.

Oldpastit – sorry I was being flippant in my earlier answer since I assumed that your’s was a rhetorical question. 😉

The straight answer at least on the national debt question is simple. In the case of a yes vote, and the boxing gloves are off, the method of divvying up the national debt will begin. Unsurprisingly, the Scots will argue for this to be done on a per capita basis. This will be resisited by the Westminster bullies RUK on the grounds that since Scotland’s GDP was increased by the addition of output from the N Sea, it would be reasonable to allocate the national debt by share of GDP. Of course, that would make the debt allocation over 20% higher than if allocated on a per capita basis. Metaphorical fisticuffs at dawn will then follow.

If there is one certainty going forward, it is the fact that each party will be manipulating figures to deliberately distort the truth.* When wee ‘eck does it he will be branded the smartest politician in the UK running rings round the oppo, when CMD or Darling or whoever else does it they will be branded untrustworthy Westminster bullies. Watch this space…..

What will probably be ignored will be the expected rate of interest that an independent Scotland will have to pay on its share, however calculated.

* edit: The easiest way to work out nationality of any poster is to see how this question is answered. Hence:

Northwind – Member
Because those are the rational ways to do it?

QED – NW is Scottish. Simples!

Oh, so you know it’s just the “next few”?

And you know it’s not?

In 100 years’ time the political landscape will be totally different.

If you were from Wales, would you be campaigning for Welsh home rule? What about Yorkshire?

I’d rather divide Cameron geographically , so that all of him stays in the south east of England. Apologies to the good people of that area.

whereas with Michael Gove, Scotland will be welcome to keep 100% of him! (In fact, I think the rest of the UK should make it a fundamental part of the treaty!)

Dont forget that there will also be “negotiations” about geography. Despite what wee ‘eck might pretend, there is at present, no formal division of the NS between England and Scotland. When this has been debated, the arguments have been far from straightforward despite the airbrushing of this (and other formalities) by wee ‘eck. More money for the lawyers!!!

That’s fine we’ll just get a restraining order to keep him away from schools:-)

molgrips – Member

In 100 years’ time the political landscape will be totally different.

If you were from Wales, would you be campaigning for Welsh home rule? What about Yorkshire?

In 100 years, we’ll all be dead, so that’s a bit too long to wait.

Probably not, because their economic situation is very different from Scotland. Don’t mistake me for someone who wants independence out of greed- but pragmatically, affordability is a consideration.

teamhurtmore – Member

Dont forget that there will also be “negotiations” about geography. Despite what wee ‘eck might pretent, there is at present, no formal division of the NS between England and Scotland.

Bit disingenuous there don’t you think? Yes the exact maritime boundary would have to be agreed, but the UN charter on the subject lays down some clear expectations so the odds of the bulk of the north sea fields not falling into scotland’s exclusive economic area are basically zilch.

Yes, possiblly a little NW agreed. 😉 it’s that time on a Friday.

Slightly less serious point in this case about the boundaries – but still not 100% decided. But agreed this is much more clear cut that the other debates on how to cut good old assets and liabilitiies up. Glad they have stopped mixing those two up though!!!

In 100 years, we’ll all be dead, so that’s a bit too long to wait.

Er… surely you should care about the future all the same?

So what if oil was discovered in Cardigan bay – would you then vote for Welsh independence?

molgrips – Member

Er… surely you should care about the future all the same?

So what if oil was discovered in Cardigan bay – would you then vote for Welsh independence?

The future starts now, I care about it so I don’t want the changes I want to see happen later than they have to. Everything changes sooner or later so by your logic why do anything?

I’m not welsh so really can’t say- they have more reasons not to seek independence than we do, but I can’t say how I would feel about reasons to.

I’m just trying to get you to admit that this is all about national pride. I just don’t think the other arguments make sense.

I’m just trying to get you to admit that this is all about national pride. I just don’t think the other arguments make sense

Not for me it isn’t – in fact I’ll miss our joint history, the stiff upper lip, Fred Dibner and Isambard Kindom Brunel, all that stuff.

But, simply, we don’t live in a democracy any more (if we ever did) – the reason I want independence is because I think an independent Scottish parliament will be more democratic and representative of not only my views, but of the views of everyone in Scotland.

molgrips – Member

I’m just trying to get you to admit that this is all about national pride.

For your next project you might want to try and get me to admit that black is white.

What makes you think Scottish parliament will be better than the English one? And I’m talking long term not the current crap, remember.

Better government could be achieved without independence. If it wasn’t for nationalism surely devo max would be on the ballot paper. Why isn’t it?

molgrips – Member

If it wasn’t for nationalism surely devo max would be on the ballot paper. Why isn’t it?

Not for me it isn’t – in fact I’ll miss our joint history, the stiff upper lip, Fred Dibner and Isambard Kindom Brunel, all that stuff.

The joint history will still be there.

Happy St Andrews day folks – whatever indeterminate geographical area, ethnic/cultural/spiritual mix and political persuasion you belong to 😆

PS – here’s hoping a minimum of bad news from the Clutha in Glasgow.