Z11, kettling can be illegal, and was judged as such in the case of the G20 protests.

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Kato – Member

Well I’m stood on Whitehall an nothing is going on

TJ will be encouraged to know we are all displaying our numerals

Nice one – good luck. The plod ( can I say that) on the ground I feel sympathy for – their bosses far less so

Zulu – they are supposed to wear ID at all times

“The policy of the Met Police is very clear. The public have the right to be able to identify any uniformed police officer and so badges should be worn at all times. We support the Commissioner’s decision to hold officers to account when they purposely conceal their identity.”

The Home Office also criticised officers who fail to wear their epaulettes, insisting the “public has a right to be able to identify” them.

A Home Office spokesman said: “We welcome the Commissioner’s statement that all uniformed police officers should be identifiable at all times by their shoulder identification numbers, and wholly agree that the public has a right to be able to identify any uniformed officers while performing their duties.”

A Yard spokesman said: “Where provided, epaulettes with identifying letters and numerals or insignia of rank must be worn and must be correct and visible at all times.

“It is the responsibility of all police officers, and their supervisors, to ensure this policy is followed.”

Reports and photos of plain clothed officers bundling people from the protest for no reason…

kettling can be illegal

Thats not the same thing as kettling is illegal though, is it?

Driving a car can be illegal – doesn’t mean we’re not allowed to do it on a daily basis though, does it?

they are supposed to wear ID at all times

all uniformed police officers should be identifiable at all times

to ensure this policy is followed.

Again, thats not the same thing, is it now TJ? its not illegal for them not to, its just against force policy, well, whoop de doo. We’re allowed to do anything that the law does not prohibit us from doing.

Double Standards!

Good luck, Kato, and my thanks to you and all your colleagues for the work you do.

Also, beer sometime…..! Needs to be done!

It wasn’t intended as insensitive, as you would have realised if you had the capacity to think for yourself, and I removed it as soon as I realised it might be misinterpreted (which it was, by a few thick idiots). It was ‘thinking out loud’ which was ill-judged. I admitted my mistake and made efforts to rectify the situation.

Hang on, that’s not even remotely true. If it weren’t for the “few thick idiots” (there was more than a few of us) you would have left that (totally out of order and insensitive) post where it was without a hint of conscience. There was no apology or admittance of being wrong (until now) just a blame on everyone else for misinterpreting. Lacking humility.

Dont understand your rant read the beginning of the opening letter.

: “It is in the public and your own interest that you do not involve yourself in any type of criminal or antisocial behaviour. We have a responsibility to deliver a safe protest which protects residents, tourists, commuters, protesters and the wider community. Should you do so we will at the earliest opportunity arrest and place you before the court.”

Think the above is fair

There was no apology or admittance of being wrong

he did immediately on the thread in question – deleted the comment and apologised iirc

deleted the comment and apologised iirc

He said he stood by the comments on this very thread!

Hang on, that’s not even remotely true. If it weren’t for the “few thick idiots” (there was more than a few of us) you would have left that (totally out of order and insensitive) post where it was without a hint of conscience.

You’re wrong, but carry on believing what you want about a person you don’t even know.

Anyway, as I’ve said; done and dusted. Move on; I have.

Well the media coverage seems to have been about the policing of the protest, the reasons for the protest barely seem to have got a mention, so its a victory for the politicians.

And we now know that though it was possible to set up camp in Tahrir Square when the Egyptian police state was at it’s worst, it isn’t possible to do that in the UK because our police state is so much more effecient, and has better PR.

The UK spring is on permanent hold…

And we now know that though it was possible to set up camp in Tahrir Square when the Egyptian police state was at it’s worst, it isn’t possible to do that in the UK because our police state is so much more effecient, and has better PR.

The UK spring is on permanent hold…
😀

Edited because while I don’t agree with the above, upon rereading my reply seemed sarkier than required!

I see things as they are, not as They would want you to believe them to be.

ohnohesback – Member
I see things as they are, not as They would want you to believe them to be.

Do you have your own theme music as you walk down the street?

Do you have your own theme music as you walk down the street?

😀

As a matter of fact I do… 🙂

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUHrihRDLX8

Looks like it all went well, lessons learned from last time on both sides.
As for the Thahrir square reference, that’s just silly.
The UN estimated 300 people died in Tahrir square you **** wit.

Without clicking on a youtube link at work…

The clash; I fought the law?

Rumble by Link Wray.

Come on then, lets hear about Politicisation of the police force, intimidation of peaceful protesters, intimidation, kettling and unlawful arrest over this one:

170 peaceful law abiding protesters rounded up and arrested by the police in central London today!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8884583/170-members-of-English-Defence-League-arrested-near-Cenotaph-in-London.html

170 of them. Custody here is rammed

As much as i dislike the EDL i do agree with you Z11 that this, as reported does seem utterly wrong.

I’m surprised that some one as vocal as you are in your support of the police and their powers takes issue with this . Don’t you believe the police should have shot them with D cell batteries fired as improvised baton rounds?

Zulu-Eleven – Member

Come on then, lets hear about Politicisation of the police force, intimidation of peaceful protesters, intimidation, kettling and unlawful arrest over this one:

170 peaceful law abiding protesters rounded up and arrested by the police in central London today!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/8884583/170-members-of-English-Defence-League-arrested-near-Cenotaph-in-London.html

Are you really comparing a bunch of pub thugs with no political agenda other than drinking and street fighting, with people demonstrating against government education policy ?

I take it you think the EDL were hard done by ? I note that there is no mention by you of the raids on Muslims Against Crusades premises, which is also included in your link.

Yes Z-11, democracy, which you have contemptuously dismissed as, quote : “this silly little experiment”, allows people to express their opinions. That doesn’t however need to extend to organised thugs with no agenda other than drinking and being up for a ruck.

You live in a strange little world mate.

Zulu-Eleven – Member

Kettling is not illegal, nor is it a legal requirement to wear their ID – more double standards! You constantly complain that people are being punished for not breaking the law, but expect to be able to complain about the police doing nothing wrong.

“Not illegal” doesn’t mean “Nothing wrong”. As anyone over the age of about 5 knows.

I’m amused by z-11. Politicisation of the cops doesn’t have to be in one colour y’know. I’m amused that you think it is.

It’s almost like you’ve drawn a line (in crayon admittedly) between the the Tories and the EDL. did you mean to?

“Not illegal” doesn’t mean “Nothing wrong”. As anyone over the age of about 5 knows.

Are you willing to apply the same logic to the people who were arrested at the previous student demo’s and later not prosecuted, those who received letters?

I’m surprised that some one as vocal as you are in your support of the police and their powers takes issue with this

Do I take issue with the arrest of the EDL? The police have a right to arrest to prevent a BOP – if they used this to arrest en masse large groups of student protesters, would you defend the polices right to do so?

I’m just wondering if the people who condemned the police for oppressive restrictions on the freedom to protest are going to defend the freedom to protest for the EDL, as well as the students. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander, surely?

Are you really comparing a bunch of pub thugs with no political agenda other than drinking and street fighting, with people demonstrating against government education policy ?

As far as I can see – the EDL members have not committed any offences, and I think its quite clear that they do have a political agenda.

That doesn’t however need to extend to organised thugs with no agenda other than drinking and being up for a ruck.

So, You’re happy to defend the right to protest for Students, but dismiss the right to peacefully protest for the EDL, based on the fact you don’t support their political agenda… and I’m the one who lives in a strange little world…

The hypocrisy of the moral left 🙄

Zulu-Eleven – Member

Are you willing to apply the same logic to the people who were arrested at the previous student demo’s and later received letters?

Well, no, because it’s not the same thing at all, and trying to apply the same logic to 2 totally different situations makes no sense.

Really Northwind?

Because I thought you’d just told me that the fact they’d done nothing illegal doesn’t mean they’d done nothing wrong….

“As anyone over the age of about 5 knows” I think you said 😉

Hypocrite!

Terrible effort.

Check your pants z-11, I think you may have followed through.

As far as I can see – the EDL members have not committed any offences, and I think its quite clear that they do have a political agenda.

😀 I think the average EDL member would be as surprised as I am at your suggestion that they have a political agenda. An agenda which basically has two items on it, drinking, and fighting, hardly constitutes a political agenda.

If they pursued that agenda as individuals they would be simply arrested. Just because they organise themselves over the internet into relatively large groups, it doesn’t somehow magically become a political movement. Even if they do warn us of the threat from “Muslamic Ray Guns”.

Nor btw, does burning poppies represent a political agenda. It’s designed purely to offend, insult, and cause outrage. And I don’t see any reason way it should be tolerated and more than me walking down the street shouting obscenities at old ladies should be tolerated – it has nothing to do with freedom of speech.

Still, arguing all this with you Z-11 is fairly pointless, is not ? Let’s remind ourselves what you have to say on such matters :

ernie_lynch – Member

No great surprise there ratty ………… you’ve always struck me as someone who looks back on the Dark Ages with a certain fondness and nostalgia.

Zulu-Eleven – Member

Dark ages, No Ernie, not at all – far more of a fan of a military coup returning HRH to power and getting rid of this silly little experiment in “democracy”

Looks like Z-11 would have been really cozy with Pol Pot, or Robert Mugabe. Neither of them have or had much truck with that silly little ‘democracy’ experiment, either.
Can the STW massive have a quick whip-round for a one-way ticket to Harare for Z-11? I’m prepared to chip in. 😈

Pol Pot & Robert Mugabe.

Are they really the best you could come up with?

Ernie’s heroes are Lenin and Marx, democracy through dictatorship!

Come on Ernie – what was it that Trotsky said?

“As Marxists, we have never been idol worshippers of formal democracy.”

Come on – can one person justify to me any reason why 170 EDL members should have less right to gather peacefully in the street than a bunch of students?

Come on Ernie – what was it that Trotsky said?

Dunno, I’ve never read anything by Trotsky. Although apparently you have, ’cause to keep quoting him to me.

If I didn’t believe in democracy I would say so, just like you have.

Otherwise how else would I get people to come over to my way of thinking ?

Do you believe in democracy, or universal suffrage?

Do we have democracy in the UK? Since you’re defending it, I would imagine you think so… but proletarian democracy is not just representative democracy, but participatory democracy

I said that we should get rid of this silly little experiment in “democracy” – and I stand by the argument that its a failed experiment, since we don’t have democracy, we still have a division between classes of legislators and legislatees. Parliamentary democracy was never supported by Lenin, Marx or Engels.

You should be all for my argument Ernie – your failure to realise that parliamentary democracy is a continuation of the class division that prevents a democracy of the proletariat shows that, despite a lifetime of espousing the ideals and goals of the left, you’ve never come to truly understand what you’re asking for!

You two are, at times, effing boring. Please piss off and get your own forum or something.

Classic bourgeois reaction to an intelligent discussion on the nature of the internationale, and the hope for a society where money and privilege are no longer able to lay down the law to the working class majority there Flash 😉

You should be all for my argument Ernie

Thanks for the tip mate………I’ll bear that in mind.