Lord above I agree with almost everything everyone is saying on this thread.

Even Binners!

Lord above I agree with almost everything everyone is saying on this thread.

I even find myself agreeing with Junky.

Back in a bit.

I may be missing something but wouldnt a more logical approach to the “if non of the parties speak for you” problem be campaign for a change to the voting system to add a “none of the above” box to the ballot card?

If nothing else this would show the establishment how many people would vote if they represented them rather than blame low turn out on apathy/east enders/the weather

I may be missing something but wouldnt a more logical approach to the “if non of the parties speak for you” problem be campaign for a change to the voting system to add a “none of the above” box to the ballot card?

You’d have thought that the better solution would have been to have proportional representation.

Oh hang on a minute, we tried that already!

Funnily enough I was dead against PR when they first announced the referendum on it. I thought it would lead to indecision and infighting among coalition governments, in short we’d end up like Belgium.

The least shit party last time around ended up being better because of the coalition. I think we should be pretty proud of the fact that we’ve had a functioning, effective coalition government the last four years. You don’t have to be proud of their policies, or agree with them, but they have still been an effective government (in my view of course) and that is something to be proud of.

You don’t have to be proud of their policies, or agree with them, but they have still been an effective government (in my view of course) and that is something to be proud of.

I agree that they have been effective, but in my view we would be better off if they weren’t.

Junkyard – lazarus
if none of the parties speak for you, don’t valiadte them

Which means if you dont like it do **** all about it
If he and his supporters cannot see how self defeating they are then they are morons. Why is there a triple lock on pensions? Its not because it is fair it is because they vote
If you dont vote they wont try to win your support. Nothing will change and it will be worse.
As binners note , like he cares, he will be abroad in his lavishly expensive tower.He isn’t advocating non involvement, just not voting(which incidently I don’t agree with, certain governments would be more plyable than others), he’s advocating mass direct action as a means to bring about quicker change, which is an idea that has merit.

To be I’m a little over half way through his book, it’s interesting, but it’s not a political how to manual, all he’s doing is promoting other peoples ideas(he openly states this).

So I do find it quite amusing that people are attacking him for being a political alternative. He’s clearly aware of what he is. All he is doing is promoting other peoples alternative ideas and giving them a platform, while pointing out the glaring inequalities.

Personally I think that’s to be applauded, he’s using his fame as a conduit to promote certain ideas, granted they are basically anarchist, and while I wouldn’t class myself anywhere close to one, there are some interesting ideas.

Its ironic that Brand is having his rant about the system being ‘unrepresentative’ when presently democracy in this country looks more unpredictable, and less cut-and-dried than it has done for decades. The Greens polling more than the Lib Dems, the SNP having a huge impact on the labour vote in Scotland, and the massive impact that, like it or not, UKIP are having. The cozy, complacent, 2 party, not-a-cigarette-paper-between-them Westminster system is looking shakier than ever.

I’m sure that the 2 main parties would like nothing more than for a lot of people to listen to the hairy, dim-witted, dictionary-swallowing lothario and not vote, so they can carry on with their ‘is it our turn yet?’ set up, uninterrupted.

Not that he’s got the house to recognise that fact, or even countenence the idea that he’s not 100% right about absolutely everything 🙄

Jesus Binners! I’m now starting to have ‘feelings’ for you 😀

he’s using his fame as a conduit to promote certain ideas, granted they are basically anarchist

HAHAHAHAHAHA
Right so he is opposing hierarchies by being the conduit for the idea.
You are as confused about this as he is but he is getting rich from his “confusion”.

Brant: now off back to the mansion in the roller will you James I have anarchy to plan and unleash the virgins of anarchy:roll:

Haha, I’m not confused in the slightest. 😆

I understand where he sits in society, as does he, he answers the accusation of sitting in a mansion raking it in! 😆 The anarchist ideas he promotes do have merit. And yes I have read beyond Mr brand. 😆

Essentially the arguement lies somewhere in the middle between the 2 philosophies. Somewhere inbetween bottom up anarchism and top down capitalism. I don’t think it can be denied that the latter is far too dominant.

Brant: now off back to the mansion in the roller will you James I have anarchy to plan and unleash the virgins of anarchy:roll:

So this pact bikes thing is just a cover for world domination – from Calderdale 😯

It’s a bad **** joke that our current left wing big hitter is Russell Brand and not Hitchens. Brand just makes me miss the Hitch even more.

He genuinely depresses me.

hitchens 😆 he was a dick.

A better class of dick than Brand though, Hitchens was someone you could have an interesting conversation with over a glass of scotch in some dimly lit London pub.

Brand on the other hand would slowly wind me up until I boiled over.

I mean….look….read this **** drivel

http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/04/richard-dawkins-br-god

He’s a complete cockwomble, Joey Barton is a better religious and political philosopher.

binners – Member

Yes it is. Its completely self defeating. If you’re given choices, which is what this dnemocracy-wocracy thing is all about, then the least worst option is always better than the worst option.

Tomorrow, maybe. But of all the choices you can make, it’s the one that makes it most likely that your kids are also voting for the least worst option.

Now personally, as I say, I think that not voting isn’t going to be effective, because we’re so accepting of governments being voted in by a shrinking minority then acting like they hit the jackpot- somehow they’ve already won that argument. I don’t know how you make not voting be seen as an act of rejection rather than an act of apathy. But I bloody laud the concept because if they don’t speak for you, then you give them the power to speak for you, you’ve just given up on things ever being better. And maybe they won’t be but a forlorn hope’s better than none at all

not voting is only ineffective because we don’t riot and burn down parliament as an alternative. 😆

I don’t think it can be denied that the latter is far too dominant.

Of course I think global politics and nefarious capitalism is to powerful. I am not sure who you think not voting will improve this ; that is the bit I dont get
Its all shit lets do nothing at all and let others decide for us that will teach them.

I don’t know how you make not voting be seen as an act of rejection rather than an act of apathy.

You dont
Tbh “The man” is delighted that those who most oppose the system dont bother to vote. Its a win win for them. Less votes needed to win in and fewer people voting against them. FFS its so self defeating it is laughable. Its moronic

Anarchy is what we had in the wild west and unfortunately an absence of rules and government does not lead to an outbreak of brotherly love and mutual respect. It leads to the law of the jungle
He needs to read Lord of the Files or a history book.

Junkyard – lazarus

Tbh “The man” is delighted that those who most oppose the system dont bother to vote. Its a win win for them.

As is voting for someone you actually don’t want to win. We can see all too well that while Labour and the Tories both want to win the next election, they see their first job as making sure nobody else does.

And even you’re doing it, “don’t bother”, why is it you can’t see it in any other terms? Clearly what we’re talking about isn’t “not bothering” Whether you agree or not, it’s stupid to dismiss it in such wrongheaded terms.

I don’t advocate promoting non voting.

But I can can understand brands point, which you seem incapable of understanding, as I’ve said, he advocates not voting, but not doing nothing. His hole enter ethos can be summed up in the phrase – organize locally and demand better.

Is not participating in elections a better phrase then NW?

If you demand better that must also include the same demand of politicians?
Its treating the symptoms not the cause IMHO

Riposte

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dAFbpk9_GM[/video]

[video]http://youtu.be/0dAFbpk9_GM[/video]

Oh **** you

If my ipad would copy/paste I’d have got there first

(And you probably saw it on my FB 😡 )

Self publicist in self publicity shocker

Verbal Dexterity? What a self regarding ****. He cannot stop sucking his own plums, he isn’t dexterous, he is just very flexible.

Haha 🙂

Its quite funny. Good on him for putting his view out imo.

Houns – Member
Oh **** you

If my ipad would copy/paste I’d have got there first
Copy ‘n’ pasted on my iPad… 😉

‘Count the spoils’ or a ‘none of the above ‘ box would be brilliant; if the None option was the biggest vote in a constituency, give all the candidates 50% of their deposit back and rerun the byelection but with a new set of candidates. Simple way of encouraging a new breed of candidates because the big3 have to go and find another body at short notice who qualifies, who will probably be a local not an Oxbridge-intern-researcher type

spoiled ballots are counted

Its all shit lets do nothing at all and let others decide for us that will teach them.

I don’t think that’s what Brand is suggesting. he’s saying that you shouldn’t vote for parties if you don’t agree with their policies, which is reasonable enough particularly in western liberal democracies run along market lines in which parties compete for votes in the same way supermarkets compete for shoppers.

neither is he suggesting the only way to precipitate political change is by trudging down to the polling station once every five years (as your many posts on this thread suggest). in fact, quite the opposite. people who only vote aren’t really engaged in politics at all.

also – to those saying “oh, it’s all very easy to ask open ended questions about how awful global capitalism is and not provide any answers”, Id say this: I don’t think it is very easy to get onto the idiot lantern and ask those questions – because how many other people in the mainstream media do you see doing it? and does that ratio reflect the awesomeness/awfulness ratio of capitalism’s effect on the world? and how many ads for masterfoods and Johnson & Johnson were there during the same time? equally – I don’t think Brand has ever suggested that he has the answers or that it would be a good idea for him (or any other person) to dictate them – the whole point is that you can’t jut sit around waiting for someone to give you an answer, you have to participate and come up with your own!

however IMHO his trews things are a bit awful and I wish he’d STFU and let his guests finish their goddamn sentences.

I’m really starting to violently loathe Brand…

and I’m sympathetic to the left whilst not really being a proper leftie.

what makes Brand a leftie? scruffy facial hair?

Good question. He’s an Anarcho syndicalist isn’t he, so I’d say he’s left. Just more towards the bonkers spectrum of left wing thought.

Also he **** bores me and at the same time pisses me off, I think it’s the fact that he bores me to death in such an animated fashion that I get wound up. Like when he starts banging out about anarcho syndicalism…..so Brand…you want me to choose de-centralized oligarch/clan based corruption over centralized corruption…..and you think you’re a **** genius for having this idea.

Great.

I hadn’t seen the original till today, most excellent parody of a hugely self important t0sser.

Junkyard – lazarus

we achieve this by not voting apparently and embracing some sort of ill defined spiritual pantheism

It’s what John Lennon would have wanted.

impact… …UKIP are having.

What’s more concerning and troubling. The media savvy and sometimes annoying antics of a man with wild hair and too tight trousers or a party who is having the massive impact that UKIP is having holding a basically racist, sexist agenda?

I know which one bothers me the most. All Brand is doing is mixing a little self promotion with the promotion of some other people’s ideas.

is UKIP actually having a big impact?