over on an academic listserv to which I am subscribed.

Apparently, some academics find the term “Anglo-Saxon” offensive (to describe, well, “Anglo-Saxon Studies”). My inbox has been absolutely filled today with the most polemical and ridiculous jibes over who said what at an international conference on the subject.

I am tired of hitting “delete” with every stupid comment that pours in.

Thank goodness for the relative sanity of STW!

Just tell them you self identify as Angle Saxon and threaten them with court action if they don’t respect your rights.

Just tell them you self identify as Angle Saxon

Stop being so obtuse!

Don’t they realise who they’ve Pict a fight with?

I was thinking about this yesterday, randomly, and the fact that “I have a right not to be offended” is not and should not be a right.

It’s difficult though, because we can agree that derogatory terms about race or sexuality are indefensible, and people seem to try to put other terms into that category, like “workmen” (because it’s gender-prescriptive), Anglo Saxon etc.

You can’t just delete them out of hand…

You have a Jute-y to reply in full.

Coat, please.

I don’t really care about the answer but want to ask anyway, what’s offensive about Anglo-Saxon?

The majority of swear words are Anglo Saxon in origin, apparently.

But some people seem to have Pict a fight over nothing. Dammit, been done, give me a minute.

Because they’re the bicker people?

Nothing in itself but when you start using adjectives all bets are off.

EDIT: too slow.

Sound like a right bunch of Celts😁. Moor power to you I say.  It’s a norsenaical argument.

what’s offensive about Anglo-Saxon?

Beacuse about 150 years ago, several notable writers have used the terms to justify Imperialism and racism claiming that their heritage made the Western Europeans superior, and some scholars have suggested that subconsciously the term has been handed down to generations of (mostly white Europeans) school kids giving them a skewed political and racial view.

I don’t really care about the answer but want to ask anyway, what’s offensive about Anglo-Saxon?

I don’t really know. I got bored after the first few posts. I gather it has something to do with racial implications and… well… I still don’t know.

An alternative proposal is “Early Medieval English Studies”, but that fails to capture the context of tribal identity and movement that was unfolding around Europe at the time.

Oh well. Whatever.

Oh well. Whatever.

You need to light a Gaul-oises before you say that..

Surely you can call them anything you want – they can’t hear you and they wouldn’t be able to understand you if they could.

Suggest the replace the term “early medieval” with “dark age”. That might wind em up.

Just tell them you self identify as Angle Saxon

Stop being so obtuse!

I can’t believe nobody else thinks it was just acute thing to say.

Aren’t they just German immigrants?

Aren’t they just German immigrants?

“just”? no – they’re germanic immigrants, their offspring, and the indigenous population that adopted their language and culture. 🙂

You’re thinking of Saxe-Coburgs.

…listserv to which I am subscribed….My inbox has been absolutely filled today with the most polemical and ridiculous jibes…

Sounds almost as fascinating as debates about reply/reply-all/reply-to-list and/or inline/top/below reply debates.

I am tired of hitting “delete” with every stupid comment that pours in.

Have you tried turning it off and on again?

Cis-Saxon, surely?

Don’t they realise who they’ve Pict a fight with?

Oh very good!

Is Norman coming to sort things out?

Just tell them you self identify as Angle Saxon and threaten them with court action if they don’t respect your rights.

Absolutely killed it first response. Close the thread it’s done.

I was thinking about this yesterday, randomly, and the fact that “I have a right not to be offended” is not and should not be a right.

Coincidentally (or not) I’ve just read an article in a popular archaeology magazine by someone who argues that we shouldn’t be referring to Anglo-Saxon England.

Not because of political correctness gone mad, but because the traditional story of Germanic migration/invasion didn’t really happen that way and isn’t supported in the written and archaeological record

I’m not convinced as I don’t think it really explains why the English speak English and the Welsh speak Welsh.

Sorry, can’t think of any witty puns, in englisc or otherwise.

Stop being so obtuse!

When the Angles invaded Britain the obtuse Angles went north the Acute angles went south and the right Angles stayed in Yorkshire.

I suppose that fact that the term Anglo Saxon completely ignores the post Roman Britonic kingdoms and Yr Hen Olgledd is a demonstration of a SE bias in study of the period

Better put your Elmet on if you start that battle…..

I’m not convinced as I don’t think it really explains why the English speak English and the Welsh speak Welsh.

I’ve read that the Angles and Saxons just settled in Britain, and over hundreds of years they became successful and their language became more common. However genetically the Brits are still mostly British not Anglo Saxon. I read one guy who suggested we should be called Anglo-Celtic instead because besides the language and government we still retain British genes and Insular Celtic cultural ideas. No idea how relevant that is mind.

But they only settled so far so British languages persisted in other places like Cumbria (c.f. Cymru).. and I guess this is the reason they speak English in Scotland.

Sayre’s law strikes again

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law

I read that most English in the south have genetic similarities to northern areas of Germany and even the northern Vikings is similar.
My cousins in South West Ireland were genetically tested some 10 years ago and we’re not even Celts. Far older. And more closely related to the north western region of Spain around from the bronze age. Might explain the swarthy skin colour in an area where the sun is quite weak.. except this week.

…and then he said order fish Ian and then the professor said “no my dear boy, Silurian” ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha……

My cousins in South West Ireland were genetically tested some 10 years ago and we’re not even Celts.

No-one is genetically Celtic, it’s a cultural group not an ethnic one.

I’ve read that the Angles and Saxons just settled in Britain

Angles are what the the existing Britons call themselves and to their mind (according to the Frankish texts that are the first to record it) they speak English. There is no contemporaneous insular documentary evidence to suggest anywhere (St Patrick, Gildas, V Bede) that a group arrived in Briton that called themselves (or indeed arrived at all) Anglo-Saxon. All those records record a settled population of post Romano-Britain English people (Bede worried about “invaders from the North”, he meant Scots and worried that all the English were Godless heathen)

Celts is (mostly) a pile of arse

My cousins in South West Ireland were genetically tested some 10 years ago and we’re not even Celts. Far older. And more closely related to the north western region of Spain around from the bronze age.

My wife’s cousin sent off one of those DNA ancestry kits, and got the reply that she was ‘100% English’. Which should help anyone wondering about their scientific rigour.

She does live in South Essex though, so perhaps they just specialize in telling people what they want to hear. 🙂

Meanwhile, in Australia:

https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/optus-posts-job-ad-asking-for-anglo-saxon-applicants-20180413-p4z9f8.html

I had my DNA done – usual brit mixture apart from a lot of shared DNA with the Sami people. Mainly german and danish apart from that

Angles are what the the existing Britons call themselves and to their mind (according to the Frankish texts that are the first to record it) they speak English.

So when does the language and culture shift from insular Celtic to Germanic then?

 got the reply that she was ‘100% English’.

Did you see the letter or was that what the relative told you? Probably 35% Roma and 5% Bangladeshi!

There was an influx of “Germanic” folks, such as Hengist and Horsa who settled/ took a lot of the south. There were some skirmishes, I think a local tribal leader married Hengists daughter as part of a truce.

The “invasion” is largely over played, there is little archaeological evidence of large scale battles, it’s more a case of immigrants settling and language/ customs mixing although less “Celtic” language remains.

Another thing to consider is that still after the Roman Invasion, most areas were individual kingdoms, so there was little or no uniting to repel invaders.