the thread for negative views about remembrance

Home Forum Chat Forum the thread for negative views about remembrance

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 197 total)
  • the thread for negative views about remembrance
  • yunki
    Member

    As a mark of respect for those that wish to err, show their respect on the other thread, I thought that I would start a separate thread for the inevitable debate..

    I’m personally not at all comfortable with the vehement nationalistic jingoism..

    The comments about the Iranian geezer on the other thread being a prime example of how the arguments that defend the remembrance ceremony are completely undermined in the name of patriotism..

    Shouldn’t we be trying with all of our might to push the perception and meaning of the day into a more logical and useful direction..?
    Can this ever be achieved or is that dimwitted brand of patriotism too deeply ingrained into our society..?

    What happened to the white poppy campaign..?

    My thoughts are with the families around the world that have been torn apart by warmongering governments

    *re-posted from t’other thread*

    it is to remember those who have lost their lives whilst serving their country

    this is why i’ve stopped taking part in the whole thing. it’s not just remembrance anymore, it’s remembrance with a nasty dollop of nationalism.

    i’ll chose to remember the tragedy of wwi that affected the whole world. i’ll chose to remember the international brigade. i’ll chose to remember the civilian victims of all wars, i’ll choose to remember those that died fighting the nazis, i’ll chose to remember those that died fighting colonialism.
    what i won’t do is go anywhere near a union **** jack whilst i’m doing it.

    The comments about the Iranian geezer on the other thread being a prime example of how the arguments that defend the remembrance ceremony are completely undermined in the name of patriotism..

    What comments were those then?

    An Iranian gentleman, that is to say a gentleman who self-identified as Iranian shortly before accusing my father of being ‘a murderer’ (direct quote). Another forum user then asked whether any members of the public had objected to this comment and I confirmed that they had.

    I must have missed the bit involving patriotism (‘dim-witted or otherwise), perhaps you’d like to show your working?

    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    the only people who want war are those who’s position means they do not have to see the horror of it.
    watching Blair laying a wreath a few years back while he was taking us into an illegal war that cost the lives of so many civilians was just too much.
    honouring those who defended our country is absolutely the right thing to do…..honouring those who attacked another, weaker one doesn’t sit well with me at all

    yunki
    Member

    bravohotel8er – I’m not even entering into discussion with you pal..

    it was Mark Twain that said “Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    wrecker
    Member

    Nobody’s forced to be patriotic. Use the day to remember or don’t remember whatever you want.
    The key is just to be respectful about it (I personally don’t think that wearing white poppies is respectful). It’s nobody’s place to question what others use the day or minute or whatever for. It’s a personal thing.

    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    Sme of us do, some don’t.

    honouring those who defended our country is absolutely the right thing to do

    i’m genuinely interested to hear exactly how many instances of this country needing defending from threat there have been throughout modern history.

    apart from wwii, i can’t think of any other.

    Edit: oops, a bit late with that one

    yunki – Member
    bravohotel8er – I’m not even entering into discussion with you pal..

    it was Mark Twain that said “Do not argue with an idiot they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    You’re right, I could never hope to compete against a Grand Master of stupidity like you. Thanks for the tacit acknowledgment that you had no point though.

    chojin
    Member

    I give this thread 5 minutes.

    Junkyard
    Member

    aye DD sensitive but still in a macho chest beating way

    wrecker
    Member

    What about defending other countries under threat? Is that not honourable?
    Bosnia, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, East Timor, etc.

    We live in a democracy. Admittedly, like all of them, a flawed democracy. “It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.”

    Agree or not agree with any wars our Country gets involved in, we send them there to do what they do. Like or not they are there “serving their Country”.

    If you do not agree with the war use the democratic process and system to object and change it.

    I cannot see how Remembrance Day could be seen as supporting unjust wars or inappropriate Nationalism.

    it was WWII i was referring to

    yunki
    Member

    If you do not agree with the war use the democratic process and system to object and change it.

    I don’t believe that this system has any merit

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    Are your trying to take the p1ss with that comment?

    I dare you to say that to a vet whose been in combat, go on…theres plenty around today – it shouldnt be too hard to find one..

    I’d happily put a wager on you you getting your lights punched out with that attitude..

    patriotpro
    Member

    yunki – Member
    As a mark of respect for those that wish to err, show their respect on the other thread, I thought that I would start a separate thread for the inevitable debate..

    I’m personally not at all comfortable with the vehement nationalistic jingoism..

    The comments about the Iranian geezer on the other thread being a prime example of how the arguments that defend the remembrance ceremony are completely undermined in the name of patriotism..

    Shouldn’t we be trying with all of our might to push the perception and meaning of the day into a more logical and useful direction..?
    Can this ever be achieved or is that dimwitted brand of patriotism too deeply ingrained into our society..?

    What happened to the white poppy campaign..?

    My thoughts are with the families around the world that have been torn apart by warmongering governments

    ***Well done – your OP has just set a new low for STW***

    I’m sure you’re proud though.

    yunki
    Member

    in what way have I behaved in a manner that is low son..?

    Junkyard
    Member

    Wow awesome I should really do more to help folk who punch the lights out of folk they disagree with or say something they dont like 🙄

    hey you have a thread to praise them and asked us to leave and start a new one. Could you do the same or can we argue or the remembrance one?

    Patriot pro it was your suggestion to start another thread and now you are on it moaning …slow hand clap

    If you do not agree with the war use the democratic process and system to object and change it.
    I don’t believe that this system has any merit

    We that’s the end of democracy then.

    Well Emperor Yunki sire, what system would you like?

    I’d happily put a wager on you you getting your lights punched out with that attitude.

    kind of proving his point really.

    just saying like.

    duckman
    Member

    deadlydarcy – Member
    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    POSTED 3 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST

    And untrained Killers get busy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remembrance_Day_bombing

    Yunki, Actually cannot be bothered.

    mikey3
    Member

    Wow you muppets will turn anything into a bickerfest.Funny though and a little sad tbh.

    mrlebowski
    Member

    kind of proving his point really.

    & your point is what exactly?

    Wow awesome I should really do more to help folk who punch the lights out of folk they disagree with or say something they dont like

    If you crack a funny at someone about their loss, someone who they may have lost a very dear friend in a traumatic & violent way, then yeah I reckon you can expect a punch in the face if you try to make fun of them & their mourning.

    Its called being insensitive.

    Or cant you see that?

    what was ‘untrained‘ about the ira ?

    yunki
    Member

    Well Emperor Yunki sire, what system would you like?

    although it may suit you you to divert this thread into a discussion on the merits of our failed democracy, it’s not really on topic..

    Today, I’m going to set aside a few minutes to remember all the (trained and untrained) thread killers.

    liquid
    Member

    The day marks an end to a war and should be treated thus – a chance to reflect why sons, daughters, brothers, sisters, fathers and mothers have died. I think on its inception it was to reflect on all those that had fallen regardless of their birthplace and the reasons why. I worry that this reflection forms a lesser part than the grief (which for many is undoubtedly necessary).

    & your point is what exactly?

    well dd claimed

    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    to which you figured

    I’d happily put a wager on you you getting your lights punched out with that attitude.

    which kind of proves his point that….

    Trained killers do get very sensitive around this time of year.

    happy to clarify

    yunki
    Member

    Yunki, you cannot surely fail to understand that today is not about governments, it is about the servicemen and women who have died during conflic

    if you re-read my original post, I simply ask if we should place more emphasis on the real meaning of the day.. and perhaps try even harder to steer it away from any nationalistic connotations..

    it’s all there in the OP

    well the op claimed

    No he didn’t. That was yunki. And, yes, that’s me being sensitive. 🙂

    Patriopro – I think yunki deserves credit for starting another thread and by STW standards I felt that his OP was well put and reasonable – more than I expected from the title – even if I do not necessarily agree with his sentiments (“dimwittted patriotism” etc).

    *witness the stealth edit*

    Ninjas be ninjain’

    mrlebowski
    Member

    Last one as Im off about.

    If you think your are being big, clever & funny by taking the p1ss out of those who chose to mark Remembrance Sunday respectfully…may I suggest stop being oh so brave behind your keyboard & toddle off down your local cenotaph & air your views there.

    Put your money where your mouth is so to speak.

    See how you get on..

    wrecker
    Member

    I’m a vet and yunki hasn’t offended me, even if I don’t believe that rememberance day is “dimwitted patriotism”. I’m also not pro-war but will support the people being sent to fight, and donate to any cause helping those injured sent to do our bidding.

    yunki
    Member

    I don’t believe that remembrance day is dimwitted patriotism either Wrecker.. I don’t believe that it sends out a clear enough message about it’s intentions perhaps

    But I DO believe that making negative comments about an Iranian man’s anger on a remembrance day thread is dimwitted patriotism..

    I possibly didn’t make my original post clear on that point

    Put your money where your mouth is so to speak.

    See how you get on..

    not really appropriate that is it..?

    Premier Icon downshep
    Subscriber

    Nice to live in a country where we enjoy the freedom to express our views about the rights and wrongs of governments sending ordinary citizens to their death, safe in the knowledge that there won’t be a knock at the door at dark o’clock by agents wishing to take us or our families away to correct our thinking.

    Regardless of the motivation of those at the top, is it so wrong to remember those at the bottom who died in two world wars to allow us the freedom to be keyboard warriors? Critics should reflect on the irony of why they are free to criticise. 🙄

    yunki
    Member

    there won’t be a knock at the door at dark o’clock by agents wishing to take us or our families away to correct our thinking.

    much to the disgruntlement of a few on this thread..

    If you think your are being big, clever & funny by taking the p1ss out of those who chose to mark Remembrance Sunday respectfully…may I suggest stop being oh so brave behind your keyboard & toddle off down your local cenotaph & air your views there.

    Put your money where your mouth is so to speak.

    See how you get on..

    see what you’re actually doing here is proving the point that some people on the thread are trying to make.

    remembrance day has been hijacked by a nationalist, jingoistic, aggressive wave of feeling which has appropriated the day in such a way that some people now feel that there should be only one meaning attached to it and any kind of subaltern or dissenting view is seen as unpatriotic or cowardly or disrespectful.

    which is a dangerous thing.

    Nice to live in a country where we enjoy the freedom to express our views about the rights and wrongs of governments sending ordinary citizens to their death, safe in the knowledge that there won’t be a knock at the door at dark o’clock by agents wishing to take us or our families away to correct our thinking.

    Regardless of the motivation of those at the top, is it so wrong to remember those at the bottom who died in two world wars to allow us the freedom to be keyboard warriors? Critics should reflect on the irony of why they are free to criticise

    see this is the other thing that is wrong about remembrance sunday. the assumption that every british casualty in war has died defending our right to liberty. they haven’t. in fact a good many british soldiers have died in wars in an attempt to limit the liberty of others.

    perhaps the author of the above quote might like to inform me how exactly the british victims of wwi died preserving freedom. are people really under the impression that the liberty of civilisation was under threat from germany in 1914-18 ?

    mrlebowski
    Member

    see what you’re actually doing here is proving the point that some people on the thread are trying to make.

    remembrance day has been hijacked by a nationalist, jingoistic, aggressive wave of feeling which has appropriated the day in such a way that some people now feel that there should be only one meaning attached to it and any kind of subaltern or dissenting view is seen as unpatriotic or cowardly or disrespectful.

    which is a dangerous thing.

    You think? How?

    Youre making an awful lot of assumptions there about how I feel..

    I never said you couldnt dissent but be respectful. Otherwise why should I or others respect you (or others) POV when you (or others) wont respect my & others feeling.

    Its a 2-way street.

    Lets have a dialogue by all means but dont take the p1ss. That just doesnt help.

    edit: To clarify, Im annoyed at the remark about trained killers feeling sensitive. That implies that servicemen & women dont have feelings. Thats not funny. Not at all. If you tried that on with some of my friends (whove recently lost a colleqgue) you had better stand by. Thats all Im saying.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    the idea that if you are not with us you must be against us is a dangerous and ironically dark path that those who fought against such ideology would be appalled by.

    rudebwoy
    Member

    So in this ‘democracy’ that we ‘cherish’ — how by questioning some views and customs is it disrespectful ?

    The people who were conscripted/volunteered to fight against fascism were involved in a different conflict than those career soldiers who go on jobs arranged by their masters(uk/us govts )

    Premier Icon jamj1974
    Subscriber

    I think the key points of this for me are:

    1). Differing views are not wanted on ‘our’ thread so start your own. Another was started.
    2). The original point was not isn’t Remembrance Day pointless, but rather that it more recently has been hijacked for political reasons
    3). Restatement of the reasons Remembrance Day was instated (Liquid hit that bang on – but was largely ignored…). Remembrance Day is “Lest we forget” the sacrifice and the waste of life on all sides in war. It is not about supporting militarism – it is about not forgetting the victims of militarism
    4). If truly veterans feel or think they can assault others for holding and articulating differing views – they are letting themselves and the fallen down. You can’t fight wars stating you have served in the name of freedom and then deny freedom to others without some justified claims of hypocrisy…
    5). Not one person so far seems to have said anything disrespectful of the dead – only questioned the motivations of some of the living – including some who sent other to die in illegal wars. Perhaps those questioning are truly holding on to the true values of this day.

    I say this from a background where I would claim neither thread is ‘mine’, I wear a poppy each year to remember the fallen of all nations, I am someone who seriously considered a career in the forces, the first generation on one side of my family to have not served as a professional soldier, sailor or airman and the proud grandson of two men who volunteered to fight in the name of freedom in the Second World War – one who travelled halfway around the world to do it.

Viewing 45 posts - 1 through 45 (of 197 total)

The topic ‘the thread for negative views about remembrance’ is closed to new replies.