Home Forums Chat Forum The Sun thread and foetal alcohol syndrome

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  • The Sun thread and foetal alcohol syndrome
  • menothim
    Free Member

    The Sun thread rightly raises important questions about the underprivileged in our society, and the urgent need to extend help to them.

    However, what has recently shocked me is the discovery of just how prevalent and damaging foetal alcohol syndrome is.

    I always assumed – in my Guardian reading way – that Britain’s underclass could be helped with good education and the right chances being offered to them. But it seems I may have been overly optimistic.

    Was chatting to a teacher in one of Glasgow’s less fortunate areas recently and he was saying the kids are genuinely as dumb as a bag of hammers in the majority of cases – their mother’s didn’t know any better, or simply didn’t care, and kept drinking throughout the pregnancy.

    The kids are then intellectually impaired as a result, and the education system isn’t set-up in a way to help them, because in a Guardian reading way it assumes everyone can make something of themselves with the right chances.

    So, these damaged kids are being mis-served by the education system and because they are dumb as a bag of hammers, they are going out and perpetuating the cycle.

    The teacher was very upset about and I must say it left me profoundly shocked and upset. It was a reality check on my middle class outlook for sure.

    Problem is, I have no idea what the answer is.

    ricochet_rob
    Free Member

    You cant give a baby booze !

    IanMunro
    Free Member

    I thought the worm in the bottom of bottles of mezcal was bad enough. Not to sure how i’d feel about a little fetus being stuck there instead.

    Jamie
    Free Member

    ricochet_rob:

    You cant give a baby booze !

    Babycham is ok tho..

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    I always assumed – in my Guardian reading way – that Britain’s underclass could be helped with good education and the right chances being offered to them

    Correct

    Was chatting to a teacher in one of Glasgow’s less fortunate areas recently and he was saying the kids are genuinely as dumb as a bag of hammers in the majority of cases

    I hope that someone in education is not making those kind of generalisations.

    their mother’s didn’t know any better, or simply didn’t care, and kept drinking throughout the pregnancy.

    So, we’re back on the issue of good education again, in this case, education for the parents.

    Problem is, I have no idea what the answer is.

    I think you do. Education.

    GrahamA
    Free Member

    You cant give a baby booze !

    You can, just add it to their milk and they will never notice, babies are stupid that way.

    :wink:

    willmalein
    Free Member

    According to my pharmacology text they actually have a smaller brain…it’s not just the wiring that’s gone wrong…scary hey!

    Bimbler
    Free Member

    FAS “sufferers” also look different

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    I think you do. Education.

    All parents are educated WRT to this as soon as their pregnancy is confirmed by a doc?

    samuri
    Free Member

    You’d expect FAS sufferers to look hard and be well equipped in a fight but I reckon I could leather that kid above.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    I’d hope you could leather most kids samuri, if not I’d question your manliness :D

    rossendalelemming
    Free Member

    I’ll just throw this in…..
    we’ve been dealing with http://www.fasaware.co.uk to produce this course http://www.ncchomelearning.co.uk/FoetalAlcoholSpectrumDisordersFASD-NEW-Product-398.html

    When you realise it’s totally preventable, it’s down to educating the masses.

    doh
    Free Member

    Educating the masses? Works well with smoking/drugs/bad diet etc etc doesn’t it. :?

    gusamc
    Free Member

    doh,

    couldn’t have put it better

    GNARGNAR
    Free Member

    On saturday, whilst driving out of town I stopped at some traffic lights. I commented to my missus at the strange looking little woman standing by the road side with her little girl.

    My wife recongnised her and told me she remembered her as a customer of an off licence she used to work in. Apparently the woman (throughout her pregnancy) used to come into the off-licence. She used to buy Bacardi Breezer light, and Malboro light, and told the staff that the baby would be fine because of the “light” subtitle.

    Obviously the staff were horrified but couldn’t refuse to serve her when she was sober. They did however refuse her at any opportunity when they suspected she was already drunk.

    The little girl standing with her looked exactly like her mother, both of them looked strangely similar to that creepy picture above.

    petrieboy
    Full Member

    Simple – new law dictating that all alcopops must contain a small dose of birth control pill! :wink:

    trailmonkey
    Full Member

    Educating the masses? Works well with smoking/drugs/bad diet etc etc doesn’t it

    Which proves what ? That the massses are incapable of being educated or that the standard of education isn’t good enough to be effective.
    Just go for the former if you find it easier to demonise people.

    willmalein
    Free Member

    Simple – new law dictating that all alcopops must contain a small dose of birth control pill!

    AND if you’re a man and you drink alcopops you will get breasts as a punishment….

    Hairychested
    Free Member

    All parents are educated WRT to this as soon as their pregnancy is confirmed by a doc?

    My wife was told women in India work till the moment they need to give birth. they take a break and do it on the side of a field. So, really, don’t worry….. A bit rich but the doc was called Satanatan. Educate the medical staff in Feltham too, please!

    grizzlygus
    Free Member

    Was chatting to a teacher in one of Glasgow’s less fortunate areas recently and he was saying ……….in the majority of cases – their mother’s ……..kept drinking throughout the pregnancy.

    Just out of interest, how did this teacher get the parents to divulge their drinking habits to him – including the level of alcoholic intake of the mothers during pregnancy ? I’m assuming that he doesn’t have access to their personal medical records.

    And do you know whether all parents in ‘Glasgow’s less fortunate areas’ entrust teachers with such intimate details of their private lives ?

    Steelfreak
    Free Member

    Education alone (no matter how good) is not going to ‘solve’ this. Even when well-informed of cause/effect and consequences, humans don’t always make the ‘right’ choices…

    simonfbarnes
    Free Member

    I’m assuming that he doesn’t have access to their personal medical records.

    I don’t think your medical record will detail your drinking habits, unless surveillance is already more developed than I was aware ?

    grizzlygus
    Free Member

    Indeed SFB. I was struggling to think of ways in which this teacher could have collected information concerning the drinking habits of his pupils mothers during pregnancy. Other than to ask them directly, the only other way that I thought such information could come available was, if there was some sort of medical research in which pregnant women were asked about their alcohol intake.

    Steelfreak
    Free Member

    Maybe all the pregnant mums drink in the same pub as the teacher…

    grizzlygus
    Free Member

    I did think about that Steelfreak. Presumably the teacher first checked that their drink was indeed alcoholic, and that they were in fact pregnant.

    However I suspect that what the real problem is, is that the teacher, menothim, and probably quite a few ‘middle-class’ punters on here, need educating. Educating about the difference between ‘assumptions’ and ‘facts’. Educating about things such as ‘prejudices’ and ‘bigotry’.

    I always assumed – in my Guardian reading way – that Britain’s middle-classes could be helped with good education.

    But it seems I may have been overly optimistic.

    Spongebob
    Free Member

    All women know that anything more than the occasional small amount of alcohol will harm their baby – the doctors tell them, as do the midwives at the pre-natal classes! The trouble is the mothers that ignore this aren’t just stupid, they are just too selfish and immature!

    The problem is not confined to diadvantaged parents! Any class woman can be “a lush”!

    Was a certain well know celebritie’s baby disabled by his mother’s well publicised heavy drinking? I don’t know, but we can be sure she totally ignored all the learned advice!

    I know someone who smoked during pregnancy. Her child tragically developed a brain tumour and died at the age of 18 months. It was trully horrible! What a txxt to smoke during pregnancy! How many babies get brain tumours eh? The mother was not disadvantaged whatsoever, quite the reverse.

    I bet someone will say i’m jumping to conclusions about a mother’s pre-natal behaviour, but WTF!

    jojoA1
    Free Member

    Cetainly in our Health Board area one’s medical records will contain information about whether you drink and or smoke, how much and if and when you stopped or started again at any point. When you answer questions at the health nurse or during a GP appointment, they record it all.

    eldridge
    Free Member

    Looking at that picture of FAS facial symptoms is very disturbing. Barak Obama seems to have at least some of those features

    And a couple of my colleagues at work have several

    And looking in the mirror, I see a couple in me!

    Is it scientific, or is it bollox?

    simonfbarnes
    Free Member

    one’s medical records will contain information about whether you drink and or smoke, how much and if and when you stopped or started again at any point.

    which might be the truth…

    enfht
    Free Member

    You’d expect FAS sufferers to look hard and be well equipped in a fight but I reckon I could leather that kid above

    hahahaha

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    AND if you’re a man and you drink alcopops you will get breasts as a punishment….

    Seems fair enough! <Al Murray> Real men drink British Beer, fruit based drink for the lady</Al Murray> :-)

    Bimbler
    Free Member

    Looking at that picture of FAS facial symptoms is very disturbing. Barak Obama seems to have at least some of those features

    And a couple of my colleagues at work have several

    And looking in the mirror, I see a couple in me!

    Is it scientific, or is it bollox?

    It’s science.

    BBC blah of FAS

    Stoner
    Free Member

    so how many fathers are now mentally visualising their offspring and checking off their facial features to see if the Mrs was knocking back the Vodka and cokes during prgnancy while they weren’t looking?

    ;)

    rossendalelemming
    Free Member

    Doh – the education has to go both ways, some FAS children will never learn to do even simple tasks, ride a bike for example. But they are stuck in mainstream schools and treated as “thick” by their peers and difficult by their teachers.

    The FAS aware NZ or Aus site has stories from the FAS kids themselves and it doesn’t make nice reading

    D0NK
    Full Member

    Which proves what ? That the massses are incapable of being educated or that the standard of education isn’t good enough to be effective.
    Just go for the former if you find it easier to demonise people.

    Trailmonkey are you suggesting that we aren’t educating people enough and it’s not their fault?
    My wifes pregnant, she was told smoking and drinking are bad for baby, everywhere you look in the maternity dep at the hospital is smoking=BAD signs, on the TV they have running adverts about smoking harming your baby but on the way in and out of the hospital there areplenty of heavily pregnant women smoking (dunno bout their drinking habits).

    I’d say plenty of people get the message, maybe they think the doctors are making it up. Do you think the leaflets and adverts should have a note at the end saying “no really, we mean it, it really IS bad for your baby”

    Fact is plenty of people know stuff is bad for them but still do it, I’m sure everyone on this forum has some detrimental vice, smoking, drinking, eating too many kebabs (altho I know there are a few vegan teetotal non-smokers here there’s probably sommat they do thats bad for them ;-) ) What I take exception to is people doing stuff thats bad for their children (unborn or otherwise) who can’t say no, thats pure selfishness.

    Admittedly I’ve had to give up bugger all during my wifes pregnancy.

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Interestingly the documentary on FAS the other month had the medical profession pointing out that NO amount of alcohol is safe during pregnancy and that ANY amount can cause a FAS baby, it differs from one person to the next so the only safe advice is zero intake. The problem was that all the women they interviewed that drank while pregnant simply said “well they say I can have X units a week so I’m having them, why should I give up drinking for 9 months just because I’m pregnant, I have a life too” (not even paraphrasing, thats the word for word response from a fairly well off, well educated business woman).

    I cannot fathom the selfishness and stupidity of people who smoke drink during pregnancy when they know it is bad.

    Link added:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2479933.stm

    hora
    Free Member

    You cant give a baby booze !

    Its Un-cle Peter!

    Visit Sheepridge in Huddersfield. It’ll shock you just how/what people think and get upto.

    sofatester
    Free Member

    Just because someone is “well off” and “educated” doesn’t mean they can’t be an idiot.

    STW is a good example of this :lol:

    coffeeking
    Free Member

    Just because someone is “well off” and “educated” doesn’t mean they can’t be an idiot.

    I never said it did, I was pointing out that this isnt a “disease of the poor and ill-educated”. It’s a disease of the irresponsible and selfish, or the poor children of them anyway.

    hora
    Free Member

    sofatester thats interbreeding NOT Alky abuse

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