Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 164 total)
  • The start of mountain biking…not in the USA?
  • cynic-al
    Full Member

    I would definately say that what we rode back then has more in common with certainly British mountainbikes.

    I’m not sure what you mean by that sentence, or “British Mountainbike”.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    I should have said singlespeeds or STW bikes i.e steel, rigid, singlespeeds. Rear mechs were either hopelessly expensive or just plain hopeless back then.
    I’m not that sure that the first bikes used in the States had gears? and I think they were ‘burley’ just because American bikes were.
    See we were building bikes specifically to take on the trail, the Americans were using what they had.
    The major difference was the economy and geography. The UK was seeing a decline in bike sales and no one in that climate was ever going to be interested in taking a bike up a wet miserable Fell.
    Hop over the pond and it’s all sunshine and entrepreneurs. If it was ever going to kick off anywhere it would be there.
    I would also imagine that the very strong British club culture back then kept most people happy, with the majority of British cyclists either racing or touring.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    I’m not that sure that the first bikes used in the States had gears? and I think they were ‘burley’ just because American bikes were.
    See we were building bikes specifically to take on the trail, the Americans were using what they had.

    Not at all AFAIK. They were using parts from different parts to create what they used. eg drum brakes, and yes, triples – perhaps Repack can confirm?

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Actually yes you have something there. The picture they paint is that they used everyday bikes. Though you mentioned drum brakes, I seem to recall motorbike brakes being used.

    In many ways you could say we’ve never discovered mountainbiking over here 😕

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Actually yes you have something there. The picture they paint is that they used everyday bikes. Though you mentioned drum brakes, I seem to recall motorbike brakes being used.

    In many ways you could say we’ve never discovered mountainbiking over here 😕

    RepacK
    Free Member

    Mmmm interesting, I was hoping to hear a few good anecdotal tales of mad frenchman careering down hills with nothing but an onion on their head & bagettes for pads – maybe a story about some Aussie using croc skin for brake pads as well.

    But for me the origin of the sport as we know it today was in Marin. I wont deny that others were doing it long before but the take on it was different.

    What are you trying to say? there’s a minimum tyre width to be a MTB?

    Dont be so asinine – of cause not & you know exactly what I meant by fat tyre.

    For interest they rode their bikes up as well as down but for those who havent been to this site its worth a look Fat Tyre

    eshershore
    Free Member

    people were riding bicycles off-road in the UK in the late 1800s

    in 1896 the Buffalo soldiers in America use specifically adapted bicycles to ride off road from Montana to Yellowstone and back

    who invented “mountain biking?” irrelevant…

    who “commercialized it”? probably Mike Sinyard of Specialized who took the ideas of the custom bike builders in California and made the first affordable production mountain bike, the Specialized Stumpjumper in 1982

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    Explain that one for me jedi. I would like to know your reasoning behind that train of thought

    The “they marketed it not invented it” train of thought is 100% correct.

    Personally, I first started off road cycling in the 1960’s. The premise then was that you built a bike from bits purloined from anywhere you could get them. Generally a robust steel frame, with the biggest heaviest wheels you could wedge into the frame. If you found a “trade bike” (one with a whapping great basket on the front) you were in clover because the rear wheel was mega. Quite often we would use components from various light motor bikes and mobylettes to beef the thing up further. For example I had a set of swinging arm suspension forks off an old military motorbike that worked well albeit as heavy as sin. Usually we’d operate with a rear brake only, single speed with a 48 tooth single chain ring at the front and a 24 tooth rear freewheel. As stated elsewhere knobblies were about, but we actually bought ours second hand from the cycle speedway boys. Can’t remember the name of the brand though. We just followed on from the older lads and hooned about wherever we could with our cow horns, sometimes canadian bend (think mary bar stylee) and later on ape hanger bars.

    We no more invented it than the yanks did. They commercialised it, we didn’t. Different thing altogether. Actually had British Cycling been a bit less up themselves in those days and opened their eyes to the fact that everywhere you went there were scrotes like me roaring about off road, we probably could have claimed the invention and also the commercial success that followed on, but we were too rough and ready for the guys at the top to take any notice. HUGE mistake!!

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    oldgit, I give up.

    We no more invented it than the yanks did

    Still refute that – a bike with triple is completely different to yours.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Ahh memories. Got a piccy somewhere I’m wearing a 1974 UCLA teeshirt that dates the picture. The bikes a 26″ wheeled steel frame, with the custom straightened forks, wide alloy rims, speedway knoblies, singlespeed freewheel, Canadian cowhorns – no grips, just taped up and a single brake. Finished in Aifix Electric Blue.

    RepacK
    Free Member

    Personally, I first started off road cycling in the 1960’s. The premise then was that you built a bike from bits purloined from anywhere you could get them. Generally a robust steel frame, with the biggest heaviest wheels you could wedge into the frame. If you found a “trade bike” (one with a whapping great basket on the front) you were in clover because the rear wheel was mega. Quite often we would use components from various light motor bikes and mobylettes to beef the thing up further. For example I had a set of swinging arm suspension forks off an old military motorbike that worked well albeit as heavy as sin. Usually we’d operate with a rear brake only, single speed with a 48 tooth single chain ring at the front and a 24 tooth rear freewheel. As stated elsewhere knobblies were about, but we actually bought ours second hand from the cycle speedway boys. Can’t remember the name of the brand though. We just followed on from the older lads and hooned about wherever we could with our cow horns, sometimes canadian bend (think mary bar stylee) and later on ape hanger bars.

    Nice story – anymore?

    peachos
    Free Member

    the way i see this (not that i was around) is that ever since there were bicycles people were riding them offroad. the humble bicycle probably outdates the road really! fast forward a hundred years or so and you find people like berm bandit up there modifying their bikes to purposefully take them into the countryside, this was probably happening all over europe & the state etc, e.g. clunkers! for arguments sake they were mountain biking, but until the likes of GF etal started making their own frames that were actually specifically made for offroad leisure biking there were no mountain bikes. specialized made the first mass produced mtb and mountain biking as we know it has gone from there.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    cynic-al – Member
    oldgit, I give up.

    We no more invented it than the yanks did
    Still refute that – a bike with triple is completely different to yours.

    So both state side and UK side there were people modifying the bikes they had / could find for the job of off road riding. Some people were producing custom bikes on boths sides of the pond, but the Americans had a triple and that is what make a MTB. Is that what you are saying?

    Americans coined the term Mountain biking, Americans produced the first mass produced mountain bikes but they were not doing any type of riding that was not already being done. Nor were they doing anything new in the ways they were modifying bikes for off road. Bike had been modified with flat bars, bigger tyres brakes over both sides for ages. It is simply a case of the economics over in the US allowed a mass produce MTB to be made, sold and marketed.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Mountainbiking came from two main directions. The downhill racers of marin county and the like with their clunkers and as Charlie Kelly himself aknowledged the RSF boys in the UK. My dad rode a flat barred single speed 29r over black sale pass in the 50s

    The modern mountainbike was not a single invention. It was a product of continuous development. Some of it in the UK by a chap called Geoff Apps He shared ideas with the Marin county folk.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    but the Americans had a triple and that is what make a MTB. Is that what you are saying?

    I’ve said it’s a combination of things that makes theirs the first “mountainbike” – triples along with custom made frames seem to be key, no one is saying anyone else did either.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    I had a converted bike way back before mountainbikes. road race frame, wide ratio gears, inverted raised cut off drops, cyclocross tyres

    Earlier than that I had a singlespeed with cowhorns and chunky wheels and tyres. Sort of touring / cyclespeedway mix taht was – mid 70s. Used for a bit of dirt jumping and general hooning around on trails

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Al – read the wiki link I put above.

    tree-magnet
    Free Member

    So there we go. It was TJ that invented the mountain bike. 😀

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    My dad acually – 🙂 Although he was following in the footsteps of the RSF boys.

    The point is there is no one person / time / place that the modern MTB was “invented” It is the product of development over the years. Read the stuff on Geoff Apps and the links with the marin county boys.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    TandemJeremy – Member
    road race frame…cyclocross tyres

    Incompatable.

    The Cleland/Highpath stuff was all uprighty was it not? And so quite different to Marin & what we ride today.

    tree-magnet
    Free Member

    I would, but I don’t actually care.

    I invented mountain biking. For me, at least. I rode my Falcon 6 speed over the South Downs. I tacoed the wheel on it one day and went into the bike shop and they had a bike specially made for what I wanted to do called a “mountain bike”. To be honest, if there wasn’t one there I would have bought something else, just not as suitable. No one showed me a mountain bike and said: “hey, we’ve invented mountain biking, want to give it a go?”

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    al – did you read the links? Charlie kelly aknowledges Apps role in it all – marin county bikes were nothing like we ride today either. Hiogh bars on the marin bikes etc

    And how are my tyres on my bike incompatible. I know what it is. When I got it it was full campag record reynolds 531 running tubs. I put knobbly cyclocross tubs on it.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    One of the less extreme areas of Blacksail pass[quote] My dad rode a flat barred single speed 29r over black sale pass in the 50s[/quote]

    No disrespect TJ, but I’ll bet you a very large amount of money that he didn’t. Pretty sure that no one ever is going to ride a single speed over Black Sail pass. They might carry it up some of the way and push it the rest, and ride it down, but ride the pass?? I don’t think so.

    I’ve said it’s a combination of things that makes theirs the first “mountainbike” – triples along with custom made frames seem to be key, no one is saying anyone else did either.

    What is a triple??

    Regarding frames, take a look at the early “MTB” frames, I don’t think you will find that they are recognisable as an MTB frame as we now know it.

    The present day MTB is no more like the original products made by Specialized than what I used to build is. Basically all they did is beef up a road bike a bit and call it a mountain bike. The major innovation that liberated the concept is in my book the adaptation of the hydraulic disc brake to a pedal cycle. Thats quite recent in the history of the concept.

    What was a big innovation was making the pirate offraod scene into a legit thing for “respectable people” to do.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Fair enough. He took his bike over it for sure.

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    I’ve seen those bikes TJ, Charly Kelly is WRONG, and you are also:

    Big-Dave
    Free Member

    A British mountain bike? I present to you the Range Rider developed by a bloke called Geoff Apps. It was even a 29er so niche enough for this forum.

    oldgit
    Free Member

    Cross tyres were skinny then. My 1975 crosser wouldnt take 35mm jobs.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Al – if charlie kelly, Gary Fisher and Joe Breeze all aknowledge the role of Geoff Apps in the development of the modern mountainbike that is good enough for me.

    However cynic al clearly knows beter than therse early pioneers.

    As I said earlier there is no one person invented the mountainbike. It was developed over years by numerous people all swapping ideas.

    http://www.mtnbikehalloffame.com/page.cfm?pageid=13665

    Mattie_H
    Free Member

    Epicyclo (and TJ–sort of) are pretty much spot on above: if you read any of the big cycling magazines between the wars a large part of their focus is on exactly the kind of riding that we now associate with mountain biking. There’s an interest in hill climbing, off-road touring and exploring all the trails that run through areas like the Peak District and so on. Think about it in the context of the increasing popularity of walking and rambling between the wars and the activist politics that informed the Kinder Trespass and it all begins to make sense. It isn’t just the RSF or a few isolated groups that are into riding off road (often on exactly the same bridleways that we follow). It’s a mainstream part of the culture of cycling between the wars. For sure, you can argue about the distinctions between the origins of mountain biking and the origins of the mountain bike–but to my mind the origins of what we do have a far longer history in this kind of activity. After all, the riders and the bikes in the photographs in some of those very earlier mountain bikes look very similar indeed to the guys riding between the wars. And it’s the spirit of riding off-road and exploring the wilds–rather than necessarily seeking the thrills of bombing downhill–that were most prominent then.

    I’ll take my historian hat off now.

    juan
    Free Member

    a bike with triple is completely different to yours. [.quote]
    True it’s generally not a mtb. Mine only has 2 chain ring 😉
    Plus as said it was a French invention in the 40 50’s where blokes where putting gears and suspension on bike to be able to ride them down the hill or do the show between races during enduro stuff…
    Don’t believe the hype al. After all what is more important for a modern mtb useless 2 ring or a front fork 😉

    cynic-al
    Full Member

    Jeez TJ I was kidding. Bet I could have kept you going for a while yet though.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    Fair enough. He took his bike over it for sure.

    No question TJ, but you’d have some whipper snapper like this

    Nice story – anymore?

    doubting the veracity of the rest of it before you blinked an eye if you’re not careful, which I hasten to add I don’t.

    GW
    Free Member

    Dont be so asinine – of cause not & you know exactly what I meant by fat tyre.

    how very dare you!
    I honestly don’t know what you were implying by trying to get me to accept your rule that “most mtbs have “fat tyres”. WTF are you calling a fat tyre anyway? in my book it’d be a mahoosive tyre for a fat bike, no?
    26″ MTBs are shod with anything from 1″ to 4″ wide tyres, no matter what width tyres you fit, they are still mountainbikes.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    they are still mountainbikes.

    apparently not, they have to be made in america and have a triple… whatever that is

    Woody
    Free Member

    Dont be so asinine – of cause not & you know exactly what I meant by fat tyre.

    Not much doubt that this is American (with a nod to Alaska to be accurate)

    ……waits for someone to disagree and say it was really the Belgians racing across sand dunes…………………….

    Junkyard
    Free Member

    I present to you the Range Rider developed by a bloke called Geoff Apps. It was even a 29er so niche enough for this forum.

    not titanium – FAIL
    triple is a triple ring – three chainrings I assume the granny was the addition for uphill but I assume you know this.

    BermBandit
    Free Member

    triple is a triple ring –

    Fair enough, just couldn’t believe anyone would be wally enough to have that as a qualifying criteria for a bike to be preceded by the word mountain. Thought I must be the one that was losing the plot, but apparently not then.

    epicyclo
    Full Member

    On reflection, I think the true mountain bike has only just been invented.

    By who? The guys in Alaska riding round on 4″ wide tyres. Finally a bike you can ride on soggy tracks without wrecking them. That the fatbikes also mop up technical stuff like it’s not there is also a major improvement.

    Gradually being made more mainstream by Surly (Pugsley) and Salsa (Mukluk) as well as a host of small specialist builders.

    Advances in gearing systems and brakes are just evolutionary changes and not necessarily improvements.

    RepacK
    Free Member

    how very dare you!
    I honestly don’t know what you were implying by trying to get me to accept your rule that “most mtbs have “fat tyres”. WTF are you calling a fat tyre anyway? in my book it’d be a mahoosive tyre for a fat bike, no?
    26″ MTBs are shod with anything from 1″ to 4″ wide tyres, no matter what width tyres you fit, they are still mountainbikes.

    Oh very well at least 6 ft wide & 4ft high..

    Its a turn of phrase used to describe modern mtbs, as opposed to cross bikes or road bikes etc..I think you took me too literally, if you cant see that then I cant help.

    FYI my bikes have 2.25 (I dont call that particularly fat but Im sure you have an opinion on them..)

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    My bike is phat.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 164 total)

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