[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9_Fs1QtsOY&feature=player_embedded[/video]

mountain biking was marketed in the usa not invented

Great video. Good bit at about 2minutes with them throwing their bikes across the river. Also a fair few single speeds. Plus at about 6 minutes some old cars (Rover plus one other).

http://www.great-rock.co.uk/singletrack/Pass_Storming.pdf

“mountain biking was marketed in the usa not invented “

I agree

that’s a great video – it’s like a mid week Ambrose ride in the west Beacons – they always encounter a carry and a river crossing 😉

great fun thanks for posting it up

Is that Roy Chubby Brown commentating 🙂

I’d say mountainbikes as we know them were invented in the USA in the late 70s.

Plenty say they did it when they were a kid etc but not (AFAIK) with triple chainsets, fat knobby tyres and flat bars – the essential ingredients of mtbs that make them much more capable than the “tourer my dad rode over the Peak on with the RSF” etc that inevitably gets trotted out on these threads.

The creation of the mtb (and subsequent marketing) is what created what we do today.

Tescos at kingston Park – ha ha

Thats just out West of Morpeth.

There was a piece in one of the bike magazines (I can’t remember if it was MBR or MBUK) from about 10 years ago about a group of french chaps who baricated their own suspension on bikes and lashed it up and down hills in the late 40s or early 50s.

mountain biking was marketed in the usa not invented

Explain that one for me jedi. I would like to know your reasoning behind that train of thought.

Geoff Apps and others were independently developing something very similar to US MTB around the same time.

As ever what is claimed to be the history is by thoughts who make a bigger company, plenty of back room fettles on bikes with flat bars for a long time.

I work for a Japanese company & I am told by Japanese colleagues that they believe MTV was invented there! (via Shimano)

Don’t really believe it but interesting to hear different ideas..

Plenty say they did it when they were a kid etc but not (AFAIK) with triple chainsets, fat knobby tyres and flat bars – the essential ingredients of mtbs that make them much more capable than the “tourer my dad rode over the Peak on with the RSF” etc that inevitably gets trotted out on these threads.

The creation of the mtb (and subsequent marketing) is what created what we do today.

is this more about trying to separate what you do, from what a group of unfashionable riders were doing for years

for me it’s still riding trails in the mountains/ hills

I don’t feel the need to inhabit a marketed niche to separate me from other people who ride bikes on the same trails (all be it not cool enough to create the hype to create a “lifestyle”)

There was a piece in one of the bike magazines (I can’t remember if it was MBR or MBUK) from about 10 years ago about a group of french chaps who baricated their own suspension on bikes and lashed it up and down hills in the late 40s or early 50s.

mountain bikers? rough stuff riders? something else?

I imagine bikes were getting ridden up and down Alpine trails since the invention of the bike

the fact that their tyres weren’t fat doesn’t seem relevant to me, triple chainset’s rely on derailiers which weren’t around and bar shapes seem to similar for some (Mary, Mungo, Midge anyone)

Marge – Member
I work for a Japanese company & I am told by Japanese colleagues that they believe MTV was invented there! (via Shimano)

Im pretty sure that MTV was invented my americans

Don’t really believe it but interesting to hear different ideas..

Yep agreed, its all part of the history of our scene.

love that bit where he’s talking about the referee

‘he runs backwards down the road, he’s been run over twice’

classic

Explain that one for me jedi. I would like to know your reasoning behind that train of thought.

I would imagine that if I took any bike off road, I would be considered to be mountain biking.
Taking that idea and designing and selling a specific piece of equipment for the task would, I consider, enter into the marketing world of creating and satidfying a need with the objective of selling something.

Can you give the precise moment that someone went offroad and decided that it was mountain biking? I think it is a bit rich that anyone claims to have invented mountain biking. The mountain bike, yes, would have needed to be invented, but mountain biking, NO!

Perhaps in the same vein, you could tell me who invented running?

Many people rode off road long before the late 70s. The dutch raced off road in the 50s iirc. Etc etc

The existence of a separate bike for off road riding was only possible once disposable income reached a high enough level to support an separate industry. If you could only afford one bike you will have a bike and do everything on it.

The USA was in a better economic situation to the UK in the 70s so it’s not surprising that the MTB mass production took off there first and hence creating a industry rather than individuals in sheds all over the world..

That does not mean however that there were not plenty of other people all of the world tweaking bikes for off road use or riding their unmodified bike off road for a long time before hand.

Many people rode off road long before the late 70s. The dutch raced off road in the 50s iirc. Etc etc

Yep agree with that but I think if thats the case then nobody can claim to have started the sport. But if you look at the modern mtb & then look for its parents then you have to look to the US no?

I would imagine that if I took any bike off road, I would be considered to be mountain biking.
Taking that idea and designing and selling a specific piece of equipment for the task would, I consider, enter into the marketing world of creating and satidfying a need with the objective of selling something.

Can you give the precise moment that someone went offroad and decided that it was mountain biking? I think it is a bit rich that anyone claims to have invented mountain biking. The mountain bike, yes, would have needed to be invented, but mountain biking, NO!

Perhaps in the same vein, you could tell me who invented running?

Chill out Don – only asked for his opinion, no need to get punchy..

Sorry, didn’t mean to start an argument. I just thought it was a interesting/funny video. 😉

As always, I’m perfectly chilled. 😆

RepacK – Member

Yep agree with that but I think if thats the case then nobody can claim to have started the sport. But if you look at the modern mtb & then look for its parents then you have to look to the US no?

but this is to do with the birth of the mass produced iff road bike no?

Yep agree with that but I think if thats the case then nobody can claim to have started the sport. But if you look at the modern mtb & then look for its parents then you have to look to the US no?

No.

mtbs don’t have to have fat tyres and europeans rode straight(ish) handlebars off road before the Marin County lot (if that’s who you were referring to).

No.

mtbs don’t have to have fat tyres and europeans rode straight(ish) handlebars off road before the Marin County lot (if that’s who you were referring to).

Ok, but you would accept that most modern mtbs have fat tyres?

but this is to do with the birth of the mass produced iff road bike no

Isnt that what we are talking about here?

If we are talking off-road riding then I dont think anyone can claim to have started the sport. If we mean mtbs as we know them now then clearly the most obvious progenitors are the bikes that were ridden in CA?

Surely the ‘parent’ of any form of modern bicycle is the Rover safety cycle?
Sorry to harp on, but as early as 73/74 we were converting 26″ wheeled bikes for off road use. We even ordered knobbly tyres and Canadian cowhorns, which where in use in cycle speedway I think pre war. Gears were ditched, tripples werent common back then. We also had our forks straightened which gave you a nice high front end, they were basically what singlespeeds are today.

At around 4:35 the commentator actually says “there’s Rob Atkinson from the Tyne Vale…..that must be the first of the mountain bikes his idea maybe… early 60’s” or words to that effect when the straight bar bike is in shot.

Very interesting film and the referee is from Stanley, where I work !!! 😆

Ok, but you would accept that most modern mtbs have fat tyres?

mate, most modern mountainbikes are bought from supermarkets for about the same price as an XT cassette and never get ridden off road.
What are you trying to say? there’s a minimum tyre width to be a MTB?

I look at my 29er with its drop bars, and then I look at what was being used to cross Oz on dirt roads in the 1900s, and I can’t see much difference. Fat tyres, single speed, but those guys were proper ‘ard.

There’s a book about that era “The Bicycle and the Bush” by Jim Fitzpatrick with loads of good photos of what could pass pass for a 29er.

I have quite a few CTC and bound cycling magazines from the late 1890s and early 1900s. Those guys were not averse to taking bikes up mountains and doing what we’d call mountain biking. Certainly more real mountain biking than what is going to happen in 2012.

In this country there is a long tradition of riding bikes in the mountains. We used to do it on drop bar 27″ wheel bikes. Almost any cross country route you take your mtb on has been probably ridden by some old duffer on a fixed wheel and skinny tyres.

BTW great video link

Looking at that video I fail to see the connection to that and mountain biking.
Over in the USA they were DOWNHILLING bikes with fat tyres ie the birth of proper MTBing.
In the above vid there are a lot of running with roadie bikes in an offroad environment, not MTBing.

sputnik – Member
Looking at that video I fail to see the connection to that and mountain biking.
Over in the USA they were DOWNHILLING bikes with fat tyres ie the birth of proper MTBing.
In the above vid there are a lot of running with roadie bikes in an ofroad environment, not MTBing.

That’s just your perspective. Mine is that mountain biking involves riding up the hill as well.

Otherwise it’s just fat boys rolling downhill. 🙂

BTW the video is a cyclocross race.

Yes, I know it is a CX race, and the men in that vid are all well hard/ mental!
I am also a great lover of riding my bike up climbs and not much of a downhiller.
But I am realistic about what MTBing is and what riding a bicycle offroad is 🙂

Sorry to harp on, but as early as 73/74 we were converting 26″ wheeled bikes for off road use. We even ordered knobbly tyres and Canadian cowhorns, which where in use in cycle speedway I think pre war. Gears were ditched, tripples werent common back then. We also had our forks straightened which gave you a nice high front end, they were basically what singlespeeds are today.

That’s just your perspective. Mine is that mountain biking involves riding up the hill as well.

Otherwise it’s just fat boys rolling downhill.

This is my point – not the same, nor as capable, as the Cali bikes of the 70s.

When was the first use of bikes with flat bars, fat knobby tyres and triples? – That is what a mountainbike is, to me (& ss evolved from that)

You have to remember that the bikes they used were standard stuff in the States, they had fat tyres anyway. Over here we were going to specialists for parts to make our bikes off road specific. They were rolling down hills we were riding singletrack!
No one invented it. They labeled something that many people had already done with bikes, thats all. As I said its origins are in the first safety cycle and peoples sense of adventure.

There is no dispute that bikes were being used offroad decades before they were supposedly ‘invented’. My take was that it is the use of the term ‘mountainbiking’ which has been accredited to Americans, whereas we can hear quite clearly “that must have been the first of the mountainbikes” term being used in the film.

As the oldest guy in the race is 40 and this race was early/mid 60’s, surely some of these guys will still be around.

it seems it’s about not wanting your roots to be associated with the rather untrendy antic’s of those who rode bikes every and anywhere long before Gary Fisher et al were even born

I also imagine that plenty of bikes were going off road in the states long before GF et al

surely the only difference is that GF KB etc started racing their bikes and then the technology arms race started which led to the industry we have now

No one invented it. They labeled something that many people had already done with bikes, thats all. As I said its origins are in the first safety cycle and peoples sense of adventure.

My point is that credit ought to be given to Fisher et al for creating/eveolving the bike into somethng so capable and user-friendly, whether you call that “inventing” or not….

They were rolling down hills we were riding singletrack!

I’m pretty sure they were riding singletrack also – up and down.

I wont argue that modern mountainbike design is very Statesside, but thats the bike. We’re talkkng about mountainbiking. I would definately say that what we rode back then has more in common with certainly British mountainbikes.

don simon – Member
Perhaps in the same vein, you could tell me who invented running?

It was me.
Mystery solved.

I think its pretty clear that a level of innovation and desire to push the technology and the type of terrain ridden happened in the USofA during the 70’s, and then they pushed their ideas into an industry