Has anyone mentioned Boardwalk Empire yet?
Definitely up there with the Sopranos for me.

First three yes. Ruined by the last season after it had been cancelled, a Game of Thrones in turbo.

Is there more to that than one character being appreciative of culture, the other not and being about business?

Yeah, but really not much! It was infinitely small, somewhat childish, and added nothing to the overall story – but imagine it must of been funny to put together, certainly made me laugh. Its a bit blink and you miss it…. Like in The Wire when Commissioner Rawls is momentarily seen through the crowd of a certain bar

BoardinBob – I think I know the CGI bit, was she sat in a chair?

Anyone watch Halt and Catch Fire?

Excellent show. Forgot about that one.

Boardwalk Empire was a second-rate Sopranos clone, quite forgettable. I like Steve Bushemi, but he was horribly miscast. Everyone back then jumped on the tormented antihero theme, it quickly became a cliche.

The Shield and Sons of Anarchy could have been excellent, but they just had such silly, implausible plots. In Sons of Anarchy, a string of cops go missing or are openly murdered in one small town, but nobody seems to bother to investigate? A biker gang smuggles weapons for the IRA, so they just load their bikes onto their buddy’s private plane and fly off to Ireland for a bit of cruising round the countryside and the authorities never ask them what the **** they are doing there? If they’d stuck to petty small-town gang rivalry stuff, it would have been much better.

I really enjoyed it back in the day, should rewatch to see how it stands up now.

Shocked there’s been only one mention of Twin Peaks in a thread about the best TV ever.

Really, the recent series was mind blowing. So far beyond other TV shows, it was like a different medium.

Shocked there’s been only one mention of Twin Peaks

I tried watching it way back in the day, just never got into it. Tried the new one. Same. Definitely classy, just never clicked with me.

Never really liked James gandolfini’s tony soprano character. I felt it was too linear and lacking in depth. There were no unusual character flaws to entice the viewer. He didn’t really do anything particularly unexpected for a ‘baddie’. Aside from the violence, all pretty hum-drum.

As for ‘the wire’, pardon the pun, but the protagonists always hit a ‘glass-ceiling’.
We never got to find out who was manipulating the drug-lords…investment bankers, global capitalism, city councils, property-developers, “cointelpro, the Cosby show”, etc.

That’s a problem shared by pretty much every show of its genre.

The only drama I’ve seen that dared to confront state-sponsored shadiness was the BBC’s ‘edge of darkness’.

The Shield and Sons of Anarchy could have been excellent, but they just had such silly, implausible plots.

This. They were both very watchable but frequently absurd, I’m really surprised people are talking about them in the same breath as stuff like The Wire and Sopranos.

There were no unusual character flaws to entice the viewer. He didn’t really do anything particularly unexpected for a ‘baddie’.

It was a family drama, except the dad was a psychopathic mobster, and his mom was too. It started with him having panic attacks triggered by the ducks flying away (metaphor for his kids growing up and leaving). It ended with him having lured his kids into the family business and them all sitting down for a meal together, so he was successful in keeping his family together, in both senses of “family”. He ruthlessly murdered some close friends, felt bad about it for a bit, but his psychiatrist told him he was beyond help so he just shrugged and stopped worrying about it.

As for ‘the wire’, pardon the pun, but the protagonists always hit a ‘glass-ceiling’.
We never got to find out who was manipulating the drug-lords…investment bankers, global capitalism, city councils, property-developers, “cointelpro, the Cosby show”, etc.

There was no bigger conspiracy, just individuals doing whatever it took to get ahead. The police force was a bureaucracy, with most cops being a mixture of good intentions and flawed personalities. Some of the police leadership tried to improve things, but there were always political and bureaucratic obstacles, so it was mostly just a matter of muddling through as best they could. Getting ahead in a bureaucracy requires being pretty ruthless, so the good intentions were often thwarted by ambitious rivals. The same basic pattern was seen in the school system, the political system, the newsroom, the courts, and the drug dealers. Just a chaotic mixture of flawed people trying to get ahead, some trying to do the right thing, some not, but a system that is beyond the control of any individual.

I loved The Wire right up until the series depicting my profession at the time (news journalism), which portrayed it in such an inaccurate and clichéd way that it made me question the credibility of everything I’d seen on the show before.

I tried watching it way back in the day, just never got into it. Tried the new one. Same. Definitely classy, just never clicked with me.

You definitely need to have seen the first two series for the revival to mean anything. You probably need to be deeply invested in it for the full effect really, because David Lynch plays on that in a ruthless and very clever way.

It deconstructs televisual conventions and makes you see the invisible strings that dramas are usually pulling.

(/TV critic mode)

The original two series really hold up well too, IMO.

I loved The Wire right up until the series depicting my profession at the time (news journalism), which portrayed it in such an inaccurate and clichéd way that it made me question the credibility of everything I’d seen on the show before.

You know David Simon, the creator and writer of The Wire was a Police Reporter in Baltimore for years before he wrote the wire? What were the inaccuracies?

I loved The Wire right up until the series depicting my profession at the time (news journalism), which portrayed it in such an inaccurate and clichéd way that it made me question the credibility of everything I’d seen on the show before.

I thought the newsroom was the weakest part of it. As above, David Simon worked there and it looked to me like he had some axes to grind. I think he probably had a much more objective view of the police, town hall, and school systems because he’d reported on them and the characters were a bit more rounded. The newspaper people were walking cliches.

Sopranos stood up to a second watch, and a third and some episodes a lot more than that!

the only show ive watched every episode more times of is Curb.

thanks for the PSA on the youtube channel btw… thats me locked in for the next few days!!

I loved The Wire right up until the series depicting my profession at the time (news journalism), which portrayed it in such an inaccurate and clichéd way that it made me question the credibility of everything I’d seen on the show before.

whereas apparently The Sopranos was so true to life that FBI agents listened to wiretaps of actual NJ mobsters discussing the possibility of someone leaking info to the producers of the show! https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-real-mobsters-thought-the-sopranos-had-a-source-inside-the-mafia.html/

The actor who played Paulie served jail time for armed robbery when he was young. Apparently, one of his conditions for taking the role was that he would not be an FBI informant.

Apparently, one of his conditions for taking the role was that he would not be an FBI informant.

Close but no cigar

It was actually a condition of Steve Van Zandt (Silvio Dante). He would only agree if they promised his character wouldn’t be a rat.

Oops. I knew it was one of them.

There was no bigger conspiracy, just individuals doing whatever it took to get ahead.

rings true outside fiction

Currently working on series 4 of the Wire, never watched the Sopranos but really need to get round to it. Likewise Deadwood.

My big hitters are all mentioned previously (BB/Saul, The Deuce), but Six Feet Under definitely deserves more love than its one sole mention.

Much as I liked Breaking Bad, I probably enjoy Ozark as much to be honest.

Will have to see how it plays out, but I think Succession has a good chance of making my top 3 longer term.

The first truly gritty adult drama that I can remember was Oz, which I feel was truly ground breaking. I have thoroughly enjoyed most if not all of the series mentioned above, but I think my favourite has to be Deadwood.

I watched the first 4 seasons of Oz a couple of years ago on Amazon Prime. It was fascinating; not amazing TV, but you could really see how HBO and the producers were getting their heads around the ideas that would later go into the Sopranos, the Wire, etc.

The Wire S2 is fantastic and probably set it up for its subsequent success. They could have just focused on the same key characters as in S1, but the decision to branch out to the docks really brought in another dimension, and then the politicians (sheeee-it!) in S3; and S4 was just amazing stuff, packed with pathos and stories spread over so many levels of narrative.
The Shield S6-7 was, for me, absolutely unforgettable TV. Having been with the characters from the beginning, watching the long-expected disintegration happen in front of your (and their) eyes was just gripping.

Question about the West Wing: we’re about halfway through S2 and frankly it’s dragging quite a lot. S1 was good, in a kinda fluffy way, and I keep hearing it’s an amazing series overall, but when does it get better than S2 again?

Yes I’m seeing a Lot of similarities with Ozark… The decent from entangled but kidding themselves they are nice and normal..to criminal overlords?

Ozark is derivative, watchable but mediocre. Sopranos was groundbreaking and created the prestige TV segment.

Ozark is derivative, watchable but mediocre. Sopranos was groundbreaking and created the prestige TV segment.

I think he was replying to me, and hence contrasting it to Breaking Bad rather than the Sopranos.

Ah, that makes more sense. Problem is, Ozark is still derivative and mediocre compared with Breaking Bad.

Currently working on series 4 of the Wire, never watched the Sopranos but really need to get round to it.

S4 is perhaps the best of the Wire.
And despite what people may tell you, there is no S5; it’s just a cartoon pretending to be the Wire that will leave you feeling a bit nauseous. A bit like drinking whisky-flavoured butterscotch after a single malt…

Oh, biggest problem I had with Ozark was the acting! Jason Bateman comes from a long line of overactors that I find unbearable.

West Wing was patronising, self-indulgent liberal wish fulfillment (and I’m a lefty myself).

But I don’t really click with Aaron Sorkin’s fast-talking, walking down corridors style of TV/filmmaking. Veep was a MUCH more convincing view inside the US gov’t.

Agree Ozark is derivative and formulaic, will probably still watch the next series.

If we’re talking about Netflix productions, the best things they’ve funded are (IMO) The OA, Umbrella Academy (S1), Narcos and Glow.

I watched the first episode of Tin Star last night on Now TV, does it get any better?

Tin Star starts good and gets worse. The violent bits are the only thing worth watching for (series 2 was unbelievably silly)… and if anyone mentions that Gangs of London garbage..! 😂

I think the proto-series for The Wire was Homicide – Life on the Street. Some great characters like Andre Braugher and gripping stories. I was particularly impressed by the one where the soon-to-be murdered man was still alive squashed between the train and the platform.

Some great characters like Andre Braugher

I recall reading that The Wire was supposed to be seven series and they had to condense the last three in to one. Would explain quite a lot of it is true. Lots of rushed plot threads and characters acting out of character. The series that concentrates on the school system is hard hitting TV at its finest.

For guilty pleasure, but still good, TV I absolutely loved Justified. Walton Goggins is so good in it. I was peeved when Hap & Leonard got pulled too. The books are top fun.

S4 is perhaps the best of the Wire.

I’ve found S4 a real slow burner. Very limited amounts of Mcnulty and very heavy on the mayoral race really put me off to start. Now on ep 10 of 13 and it’s really coming together. It’s a pity S5 sounds like a dog! Think I have liked S2 best so far, really enjoyed the shift to the dockers.

If we’re talking about Netflix productions, the best things they’ve funded are (IMO) The OA, Umbrella Academy (S1), Narcos and Glow.

Funny that with their huge bags of money you picked two series in there that they dropped before they finished! I found The OA a bit mystical bollocks for me, but Glow was amazing. Narcos also fantastic obvs.

Forgot about Narcos. Really great series and Glow was fantastic too. Only a single series but I thought Godless was superb and really well shot.

we’ve an entire thread of netflix recommendations so I’ll refrain…

Anway, Sopranos: each time I see/hear the HBO tone and white noise screen, I still hear the Alabama Three kick in “Woke up one morning, got myself a gun…” And I’ve watched a lot of HBO since the Sopranos ended. Absolutely superb but unfortunately aired on a Thursday night which meant my wife watched it and it was my pub night, if anyone remembers pubs, and I’d usually be in late as it did lockins. Sigh. So there’s a few series I’ve missed half of. But not sure I can face going again from the beginning (my wife’s memory for narrative being as poor as her self-restraint. Positives and negatives…). So waddyagonnado?

If anyone’s just watched all of The Wire and is in need of another fix, check out The Corner. Same director, a lot of the same actors, similar situation etc. Just the one season so brings you down gently after The Wire.

One of the great things about The Sopranos was it got the ending right and didn’t go on to long . The shield and the Americans were others and honorable mention to Homeland for being great then rubbish then great again .

GOT , Dexter , Oz and Sons of anarchy  were all shows i really enjoyed for a while before finding the endings a bit unsatisfying  .

In answer to the thread title though Sopranos gets even better the second time round , you notice so much more .

One of the great things about The Sopranos was it got the ending right

Absolutely.

I remember it was controversial at the time but I thought they really nailed it and it said so much.

I found The OA a bit mystical bollocks for me

I don’t usually go in for that kind of thing – because nothing can compete with Twin Peaks when it comes to weirdness – but The OA is the only other show I think has pulled it off.

Such a shame it was canned, the ending to S2 was stunning and a massive cliffhanger.

Anyone mentioned homeland yet? First 2 or 3 seasons… Later ones were not good

Apparently Homeland came back though – S5(?) onwards is apparently a real return to form.
Appreciating I’m repeating what’s on the Netflix thread… for Netflix-funded series, Russian Doll is just amazing. So short, small, gripping and jam packed with ideas.