Practice Bob, it’s all about practice! I remember last year we were trotting down the road between two pubs so a couple of pints deep. Anyway, the pace picked up and picked up and then somebody said ‘Bloody hell, we are doing sub 8 minute miles here!’

Club training session this evening. 6x600m on flat tarmac with 60s recovery. I lazily ran the first two thirds of each interval on a shoulder and then held the pace as they faded. Man it’s nice to be in alright (for me) form.

11×600, 120s recovery tomorrow night. Oh joy.

Nice photos Mike, stunning place to run.

Decent if easy session last night – 3 longish uphills + 3 shorter ones, then a 2000m at HM pace. The swim session that came after was a bit tougher 🙂

Strava…

Well, it’s good if you are a numbers type of person… but if like me, you only use it for routes.

Whatever challenges you off the sofa.

singletracks running ray of sunshine strikes again…;-)

I am full of xmas joy 🙂

so hypothetically …..

if a stubborn bugger wanted to do their first ultra (62km) and had 6 months to train to distance.

top tips ?

Plotted out the CG ultra on a map and rather than doing the Larig ghru race again I’m sorely tempted – but its a 50% increase in distance and 100% increase in climbing and i wasn’t in great shape after LG- although i did learn a lot about my own body and what muscles i need to target – I had muscles that just stopped firing through fatigue after 37km (previous longest run was 25km)

My rough plan is to finish marcothon, Get back to the club on thursdays. Work up the distance on weekends.

Do long runs in the hills on trails

Not solo the puffer….that killed my back.
Likewise not solo 10 under – that killed my back

Strengthen Back .

New wider shoes.

also …. Stuart – did i see you were interested 😀

As many long runs as you can was my tactic, pretty much gave up the 5k wee runs with workmates and tried to always get at least 7 or 8 miles in, double that on a weekend run. It’s time on your feet that counts, forget pace.

You know your onions, you’ll be reet.

LG was your first big run, would be a bit odd if you didn’t feel any ill effects after it, my first ultra was the same, but tbh the last 2 I’ve done, I reckon I could’ve ran the next day without too much bother.

I’m tempted too btw….

As many long runs as you can was my tactic, pretty much gave up the 5k wee runs with workmates and tried to always get at least 7 or 8 miles in, double that on a weekend run. It’s time on your feet that counts, forget pace.

And make as many of them as possible on the same or similar terrain to the race.

And make as many of them as possible on the same or similar terrain to the race.

haha thats my justification for the wife 😀 – We need to go to Loch muick all spring

A friend used to say when marathon training, run further, run faster and run up more hills.
I use that as my simplistic approach to building my training base.

Other options are running on tired legs, maybe doing 2 runs on certain days or a run in the evening and then next day first thing in the morning.
Definitely try and mimic the terrain of the race and get the short runs up to a reasonable distance as per Nobeer.
Don’t worry about the pace on longer runs, but maybe try and build in some speed/interval/hill sessions through the week if it’s possible.

Thats pretty much the matra i follow for Bike racing – it applied well to LG.

thursday is speedwork

Tuesdays is hill run in the gloop

Longer runs will be at weekend I’ve identified a good hill route.

saturdays me and the wife tag team – she rides to a cafe about 40k by road and i drive with jnr then we swap – if i run home from there its 30k offroad run over Hill of fare.

Just need to fit an increasingly longer run on sundays.

Just to hijack for a moment this week saw the death of the great Peter Snell. He won an 800 Gold in the 1960 Olympics, dominated the next few years then did the 800/1500 double in the 1964 games (the year I was born)
He broke the 800m world record with 1:45.1 on a grass track then later ran 1:44 on dirt/cinders! He broke a number of world records over 800/1000m and the mile.
If he was at his peak today he would still be a podium contender. You cant say that about many athletes from 50+ yrs ago.
He was coached by the famous Arthur Lydiard and any of you interested may want to read about his methods, few could follow them but variations of his sessions have been used since.

This is what 1:45.1 on grass looks like. Watch in awe….

So my running routes (away from main roads, because well, who wants to run next to a main road!) are all unlit/poorly lit footpaths/dead end roads/river towpaths with maybe 2-3 cars per run, and/or undulating tarmac, wet mushy leaves, and so on.

I’ve found an old headtorch, but will need a cheap red safety light, what’s best – an armband light? I could clip one to my shorts but my top might go over it and render it almost useless.

Also, week 1 run 2 completed yesterday, zero DOMS so far… 2.38 miles inc both the warm up and warm down 5 minute walks. Avg heartrate was 125, max 158. I was getting into my stride too (pun intended!) and was making sure not to over-stride. I seem to be sitting at 140-150bpm on the running parts, and at about 8-9min /mile pace, which still feels pretty slow if I’m honest… overall pace for the whole run/walk was 10:43 /mile. I’m only really feeling it in my ankles when I’m running, as in they feel weak (like when you’re at the end of a set of weights, or at the end of your limit for a cycle sprint) but I seem to get a nice second wind on the last running section 😀

Don’t worry about the numbers Tall Paul , I’m a year in to running and my times are still slow, almost imperceptible gains but gains nonetheless.

I run a night commute on unlit lanes. Don’t feel the need for a red light, if there’s a car coming up behind I just shine the headtorch downwards alongside me and the big pool of light on the road seems to be far more effective in making me visible.

I’m feeling a bit faster today 😊 I wondered if I could run a 45m 10k so watched a video (series of 4 on YouTube actually) to see what was involved. A fit, thin, serious looking bloke did a 4 week plan and attempted to run 45m in a 10k race. I won’t spoil the ending, suffice it to say I can’t be arsed with training plans and promptly forgot about it.
This morning, I woke up in Bordeaux which is the only place I’ve actually run 10k on the flat, back in August. I remember doing it at 4m50 pace, thinking 4.50*10=45mins, and being rather disappointed at going over 48m.
So having worked out I needed to run 4m30 pace which I do for about 3km on the way to my local trail loop, set off and managed to hold the pace at about 4m15 up the Gironde, crossed the bridge and was at 5km in 21m something. Pace dropped as last night’s beer began to threaten to reappear and the headwind picked up, panicked a bit as the Garmin kept showing 5 mins pace, but scraped in at 44.29 so quite pleased with that, not sure why it needed 4 videos to explain!
Now to find a local 10k race and scratch the itch properly, but I still refuse to do a training plan!

There is no shortage of people looking for some magic formula. A training plan can be written on the back of a stamp (almost) and there are only a handful of components making up about 3 to 4 sessions a week. Never known anyone to follow a plan that told them what to do outside of those sessions, other than get your strength back by running steady miles.

and there are only a handful of components making up about 3 to 4 sessions a week

It’s so simple a large majority of folk make a total horses arse of it.

They are not looking for a magic formula they are often looking for guidance to avoid overuse and injury.

Good work on your target Bob.

I re-listened to an interesting old podcast from Feb 2019 on Shawn bearsdens podcast science of ultra. It was about focusing on why and not setting arbitrary targets such as a time or a position as the journey to that target is often the euphoric experiance and hitting the target is often a let down in that the joy of hitting the target is short lived the experiance of traveling to the target lives With you for a long time.

Worth a listen if you get a chance. Although I get he’s an acquired taste …his approach appeals to my engineering mind.

They are not looking for a magic formula they are often looking for guidance to avoid overuse and injury.

Unless youve met them all then you cant say. Met plenty who think they can eat and rest their way to good performances. My comment was in response to Bob’s comment about taking 4 videos.

Indeed but thats the gullible people who can’t distinguish betweent the advice they are looking for and fake news.

The countries full of them. See our Tory government 🙂

Unfortunantly this allows the unscrupulous to pray for fame and fortune. It’s the same with cycling when former pros release their get fit in 15 minutes books

Hard work and dedication gets you to the top not special plans.

How ever misguided hardwork and dedication means unless gifted you often end up bitter and twisted about having never made it.

Speaking of missguided I’m just waiting on my ride to the hills for a 4pm night run round the hill tops ……I predict fallsaplenty.

Nice one @bob_summers I fancy going after a sub 50 10k next year as just a little target. Got to 52mins 2yrs ago on a trail race.

Had a little milestone of my own today. Did a 10 miler. Never gone over 9 before. Nothing major but felt good. Took me 1:30hr with about 4 mile being off road. Slippy!

Got my first half in January and have set myself a small goal of going sub 2hr. Should be doable based on today if I don’t mess it up and get carried away.

First run of week 2 done, definitely working a bit more now, especially as my route is fairly undulating. Still fairly comfortable though, I can feel the improvement in my ankles/calves from the first runs.

Managed just shy of 5 miles this morning all off road. Longest run I have done for months and although my back is sore it didnt get much worse from the first to the 5th mile so maybe just continue picking things up gently, and play it by ear. Nice to be able to jog over the holiday period. May even look for a low key race as a motivator 🙂

Not managed a run for about three weeks now due to family commitments and the usual chaos in the run-up to Christmas, however I have just managed to sort out getting the tyres changed on our car on 28 December so I will drop it off and go for a good long run in the 1hr 30 mins the garage say they want it for.

QECP has been a bit slippy of late, my run up Halnaker Windmill with a local group was fun.. I’m off ouup Norf now so will revisit Simon Seat loop and jog along the moors a bit.

Enjoy your break.

Getting out for a run could be just the medicine you need.

May even look for a low key race as a motivator 🙂

Parkrun? 😉

Parkrun? 😉

Maybe

also …. Stuart – did i see you were interested 😀

I will be entering it, the only other race I have signed up for is the Tiree half. I will be doing the Fetteresso in Feb then it is into the long slow runs. I can surely get over the cairn and we can do some long plods,new dad duties allowing. Nobeer, is the Cairngorm Ultra not up your street?

What is fetteresso in Feb ?

Also you been to crathes park run yet ? It’s worth a drive

A local marathon in the forest. OH has been to Crathes a couple of times, was there for that and the Santa dash last week and likes it.

Nobeer, is the Cairngorm Ultra not up your street

It is, but May is exam time, only 2 weeks before, so not really sure what to do. On waiting list for the Devil too, hmmmm…

11 miles early this morning brought up 1000 miles for the year, not much by some of your standards, but 2 years ago I’d have baulked at running 20 miles a week.

More hill races is next year’s target I reckon. 👌🏻

Just been out for 15k with the buggy.

Eilidh slept the whole way…..it did take me 1hr 45 so no records but it was a time on feet thing.

Looked up fetteresso…..looks tough. I know those routes well from the drumtochty challenge……the thing about fetteresso is it’s all up or down. No flat.

Ok, I have something of a delicate question for the experienced runners here.

What are your poo management strategies? As I’ve started running for an hour, I’ve found myself touching cloth towards the end.

This appears to be a thing and I’ve found an article on Runners world, but it’d be interesting to know what works for people in the real world.

What are your poo management strategies?

2 options.
Ideally, go before you go. This is my preferred option, but it does help that I do my long runs in the morning. Eat early and then go out 2 or 3 hours later after you’ve attended to business. Or don’t eat at all.

Or, don’t fight it and get good at a stealth crouch in the woods. If you ever listen to Running Commentary Podcast you’ll find this is Paul Tomkinson’s preferred option.

Coffee as soon as you’re up, give it 30 mins, then go squat whether you’re ready or not! It’ll come! 😂

Since I chucked the beer, it’s became a lot less of an issue tbh, used to always have to go first thing, was a right nuisance when kipping in the back of my van, either finding a loo open early or going in the woods!

Find I can happily wait til after lunch now!

Running shoes for ultras .

I’m back in my decathlon trail shoes that became too narrow on LG.

It was pointed out it’s a known thing that feet swell in ultra.

Keen not to make the same mistake in that I’m going to buy me probably some speedgoats if I can get them to fit in the new year to train and use on CG ultra trail and at the price only have one shot to get it right

What sort of fit should I be looking for. I’m going to a shop to buy my first pair at least but tbh I thought my decathlon trail shoes fitted – and they do …… Just got tight after 40k.

I go big for trail shoes, I think my fujitrabuco are 11.5, I’m shoe size 10, as you say due to swelling of your feet being on em for so long. Lots of room in the toe box.

I’m for a wee pair of trail gators too, keep the wee stones out.

I’m already a full shoe size up in my decathlon’s

My pet hate is a loose heel cup. I had some salomon speed cross a few years ago and they were a good length and width but soon as I started running it became apparent they were slack like old socks.

Caused me no end of bother on the inov8 iroc ended up running in my manky old casual shoes.

Terry, I have feet like flippers,I am back in inov8’s but really regretting not buying another pair of mizunos. Weirdly they have Michelin soles that are the grippiest things ever and are good and wide as well as avoiding heel lift, which I get with inov8.

Edit; wave mujins.