The Running 2019 thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

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  • The Running 2019 thread – beginners/ultras/whatever
  • mogrim
    Member

    Dont worry if it is 685.4m or 1028m etc, doesnt matter. Run it hard with a recovery and simply time it on your £10 Casio. The benefit comes from the hard run over a set distance and a fixed recovery time.

    You don’t even really need to time it, although obviously if you want to track progress you’ll need to do something like that. Find a shortish local hill, run up it hard (for whatever value of “hard”), then jog back down. Repeat. Do that once a week and you’ll soon progress.

    dashed
    Member

    Any of you NW folk doing the Shrigley Stag on saturday? Think it’s a new one and part of the Rose Queen carnival thingy. Just put my entry in 🙂

    surfer
    Member

    You don’t even really need to time it, although obviously if you want to track progress you’ll need to do something like that

    The measurement doesn’t just “track” improvement but “drives” it. Without measurement its “just” running. No bad thing in itself (its pretty much all I do now) but it is not “training” in the strict sense. You may improve marginally but measurement is the key to understanding if your training is working and ensuring that training is sufficiently stressfull to deliver “real” improvement. Thats not to say you have to be a slave to the watch but hard, measured training is what separates joggers from those who want to improve their performance.

    Spin
    Member

    Well there’s a first time for everything, I’ve just been disqualified from a race!

    Used poles on Saturday because they’re generally allowed in that type of race, or have been in other races of that kind I’ve done. There was nothing on the website saying otherwise (I checked the whole thing) and no mention of it at any point during sign-in briefing etc.

    Seems they weren’t allowed after all and some other runners complained. 🙂

    Ironically, my conclusion from the experiment was that they didn’t give any advantage on that terrain.

    Bollocks.

    They were asked a few weeks back by a guy I know, and said they had consulted the landowner (I hate that term) and had agreed with him that they shouldn’t be allowed, but as you say, no mention of it at race briefing.

    Landowner is a prick as well btw, a real piece of work.

    Spin
    Member

    I don’t really understand what the landowner has to do with it? Sounds like a cop out on the organisers part.

    I’m happy to follow the rules but I need to know what the rules are! I’m finding it quite amusing now but I was a little miffed earlier especially as I’d confessed all at the finish. They admitted they should have made it clearer and told me I wouldn’t be disqualified.

    Sorry to hear about that Spin. A right bummer.

    Right, I know this has been asked before but I’m a lazy **** and can’t be arsed trawling back through the thread.

    Bloody “Mandatory Kit” ☹️

    Lightweight waterproof jacket recommendations please? It “must” have taped/welded seams as well, FFS. Guess it’s a “pick any two features” choice. Although, I have my eye on a race in November, where it might get used in anger so don’t mind spending an extra few squid on something decent.

    The 8.99 ones in decathlon are the go to light and packable, and they’re actually quite good!.

    Spin
    Member

    Agree with nobeer, you can spend a fortune on a jacket but ten quid or 200 quid you’ll end up a sweaty mess running in it.

    I’ve got an OMM Kamleika jacket and although the design and fabric are good I’m already having to send it back due to stitching coming undone.

    For kit check proof trousers I spent £10 on a pair of ‘isodry’ trousers from Mountain Warehouse. They actually work very well.

    ‘Casey Morgan – Scottish Athletics, the land owners and our own preference from a safety point of view.’

    That’s the reason on the faceboak post when asked the reason for no poles Spin.

    I’d be disputing it tbh if there’s no mention in the rules.

    Spin
    Member

    I was thinking I was OK with this DQ thing but actually I’m not.

    I’ve paid £50 to a professional event organising company and followed every bit of info on their website and verbally given to the letter but still been DQ’d. Not good enough.

    Edit – just seen your post nobeer. Think I’ll raise it with them. I’d already been in contact and they agreed to remove my name from the results as it made it look like a deliberate attempt to cheat on my part.

    Agree with nobeer, you can spend a fortune on a jacket but ten quid or 200 quid you’ll end up a sweaty mess running in it.

    Yup, fosho. You’re preaching to the choir there Spin. There is a nice one on Decathlon but it’s not cheap. I’ll have a look on sportsshoes and see what they have reduced from last season.

    I’m considering a 50k around the Gower in November. Did my 16.5m on Sat and have a 24m in July. I’ll be reet won’t I? Plenty of time before November to get to 34? 😀

    EDIT: and thanks Spin for the slacks recommendation – will have a look at those.

    Aye, I’d pursue it, bloody right I would.

    They’ve got folks times wrong all over the place going by the faceboak comments as well.

    Spin
    Member

    They’ve got folks times wrong all over the place going by the faceboak comments as well.

    Also the marking thing, although that’s not for me to raise. If they tell people there’s no need for map or navigation then you need to make blood sure it’s just that.

    It’s a shame, I enjoyed the day and the feel of the event but a commercial event (as opposed to a volunteer run one) needs to get these things right.

    Aye, agreed.

    Keep us posted.

    Cferg
    Member

    Definitely let them know your position.

    I did the trail race and thought it a bit strange that there was a mandatory kit list, yet a few guys at the start carrying nothing and wearing shorts and t-shirt….

    Was also told to follow the gpx by a marshall which I didn’t have on my watch, nor a map as I didn’t think it was necessary but if the conditions were any worse probably would’ve needed.

    Great event all in but some improvements could be made which I’m sure the organisers will address for next year.

    Mate of mine was DQd last year, a group of them were, Marshall wasn’t paying attention and assumed they’d come off caisteal abhail, Sent them on their way toward Tarsuinn.

    Cloud was down so they headed off in direction he sent them. He thought they’d been up so summit checkpoint, they hadn’t.

    Not the best advert really.

    Spin
    Member

    Great event all in but some improvements could be made which I’m sure the organisers will address for next year.

    I heard a rumour it was going to be a Skyrace next year in which case they’ll definitely need to sort out things like marshalling, marking and communication. Plus it will probably be twice the price and have twice as many competitors!

    I actually emailed them before the race to ask if they provided maps but was told there would be no need as it was fully marked. That didn’t really work out given that the 26k race was probably decided by Hamish Battle going wrong.

    Aye, defo, he was well in the lead at that point.

    Lots of folks went straight along the ridge off Ben nuis instead of taking the path off toward Glen Rosa, one little 24″ cane with a wee bit of red tape 20m off the trail is easily missed in the glaur.

    Spin
    Member

    In contrast the 3 times I’ve done the Glen Coe Skyline it’s been marked with a flag pretty much every 10m. An amazing effort really when you think about it.

    Spin
    Member

    Keep us posted.

    After a bit of toing and froing between myself and Casey his last email contains what looks like a kind of qualified apology or at least an admission that they understand my position. He’s acknowledged a communication issue and stated quite clearly that he never thought I was deliberately breaking rules or trying to gain advantage. But he’s sticking to the line that the info was out there on FB and via the footnote on the website to say ‘UKA regs’. Personally I don’t think that’s adequate. Various phrases like ‘unfortunate situation’ and ‘had no choice’ were used. There’s a bit of a double standard going on as I approached him immediately at the finish, confessed all and apologised. He initially told me I wouldn’t be DQ’d but then decided to do so on the basis that other runners had complained.

    Can’t say I’m entirely happy with all that but I’m not sure it’s worth the effort / stress of pursuing it further.

    Cferg
    Member

    I wouldn’t let the above get in the way of a great run, especially in those conditions.

    Perhaps not in the spirit of the race for other competitors to complain about such a minor discrepancy but that’s the price you pay for being fast!

    Spin
    Member

    I wouldn’t let the above get in the way of a great run, especially in those conditions.

    Perhaps not in the spirit of the race for other competitors to complain about such a minor discrepancy but that’s the price you pay for being fast!

    I agree, I’ve said my piece and I’m going to drop it now. It does leave a bit of a bad taste in the mouth though and I’ve gone from thinking I would probably do one of the races again next year to thinking I definitely wont. I suspect those who complained were probably people who had been told they couldn’t use poles then saw me with them! I might have complained too under those circumstances. He did suggest that folk wouldn’t have been too bothered if I was in 50th rather than 5th.

    I was actually in a similar situation a few weeks ago when other runners used GPS to navigate in a race where it was not allowed. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and rather than dobbing them in just suggested to the organiser that they might want to make it clearer next time.

    That’s a shit situation, shouldn’t matter a jot whether you finish 5th or 5th last, if they don’t state the rules clearly then they can’t enforce something retrospectively.

    Anyhow, results (finally!) in for the ‘wee race’ – delighted to finish top half, 40/109, in my first proper race of this type, only done 3 wee hill races so far. Some lessons learned, particularly around fuelling, I reckon if I’d had a couple of gels coming down through the bog I would have done sub 5hrs, but hey ho.

    My only tactics were not to stop at all and to keep my HR below 150, which I stuck to and they worked pretty well.

    As an aside, you don’t reckon poles worked for you then? I always descend when hill walking with them, think they’re brilliant, takes huge weight off the legs and allow me to walk lots faster, but often wonder how you actually run with them, if that makes sense?.

    dashed
    Member

    Timely info on the waterproofs – ta. I’m looking at a couple of races coming up which require mandatory kit so just ordered a cheapy pair of Mountain Warehouse pants – £17 incl delivery.

    @spin – understandably frustrating situation regarding the poles. Shame as that sort of this can detract from an otherwise grand day out.

    mogrim
    Member

    often wonder how you actually run with them

    As with everything: practice. Can’t say I’m particularly good with them downhill, but I’ve got a mate who uses them far more than me and he flies downhill, using the poles to vault over obstacles.

    @spin sorry to hear about the DQ, does seem very unfair if they weren’t explicitly banned.

    Spin
    Member

    As an aside, you don’t reckon poles worked for you then?

    Firstly, glad to hear you were happy with your result. A great effort for a first go at that sort of thing. You should consider doing some of the long classics next year.

    I’ve used poles a lot but not in races so I thought Saturday would be a good chance to experiment for any future pole legal events.

    My conclusion was that they didn’t benefit me on the whole. In fact I speeded up after I put them away. They work well when you are moving at a slower pace like in a long ultra or 24 hr round but become less useful at shorter race pace. They also work better on smoother terrain than we had in that race. On rough rocky ground you start having to think about where the pole is going as well as where your feet are going and that’s too much for my mind at least to handle. On that course they were probably of benefit on some of the climb up Goat Fell, the climb back out of North Sannox and nowhere else really.

    Premier Icon turboferret
    Subscriber

    Lightweight waterproof jacket recommendations please? It “must” have taped/welded seams as well, FFS. Guess it’s a “pick any two features” choice. Although, I have my eye on a race in November, where it might get used in anger so don’t mind spending an extra few squid on something decent.

    I really like my Gore jacket – used to be called Active, now Shakedry. Incredibly light and mega breathable, but not super cheap by any means.

    Premier Icon turboferret
    Subscriber

    Not sure what to do next. Don’t know if Paul Tierney’s Wainwrights are being covered on here. Tracker etc:

    https://twitter.com/inov_8/status/1139456504187281408

    Looks like Paul is going to finish today Inov8 Update and take a good chunk off the previous record

    surfer
    Member

    I really like my Gore jacket – used to be called Active, now Shakedry. Incredibly light and mega breathable, but not super cheap by any means.

    Gore make the best jackets IMO. Cost a bit more but worth it. Dont bother with Gore-tex just their own breathable one. Gore-tex just boil in the bag.

    mogrim
    Member

    On rough rocky ground you start having to think about where the pole is going as well as where your feet are going and that’s too much for my mind at least to handle.

    That’s just a lack of practice though, there’s loads of rocky ground round here and poles work fine – assuming you know what you’re doing. They are definitely easier on smoother ground, though, and if there’s any mud around they’re a lifesaver 🙂

    dashed
    Member

    Big scenes in Keswick for Paul coming back in – 6 days and 6 hrs for all the Wainwrights!

    Spin, sorry to hear about your experience over the DQ for poles issue. It is rubbish when you get binned for something that you thought was acceptable and did not do through malice or mischievousness.
    From what I hear, your experience over their usefulness is a fair assessment and while they have their place on some mountain ultras and the biggest challenges, they’re less useful generally.

    For future reference everyone:
    All Scottish Athletics authorised events ban the use of walking poles, including the longest and lumpiest ultras.

    MrSparkle
    Member

    In other news – Paul Tierney has just broken the Wainwrights record. This is bloody amazing! Unofficial time: 6 days 6hrs and 5 mins. Over 7 hours off previous record.

    Sorry Dashed – didn’t see yours!

    Spin
    Member

    That’s just a lack of practice though, there’s loads of rocky ground round here and poles work fine – assuming you know what you’re doing.

    I think we’re talking about slightly different things. When I say they’re not so good on rocky ground I’m talking about large scree fields and big boulder hopping of which there was plenty in the race in question. You don’t really see anyone using poles on that kind of terrain or if they do they’re actually moving slower than those without. Lots of people will just lift them up for those sections or hold both poles in one hand for a bit.

    whitestone
    Member

    Backtracking slightly. As my running tailed off I did a bit of marshalling on some local races (Auld Lang Syne, Stanbury Splash and the like). One race, probably the ALS I was marshal at the trig point above Top Withens. The route almost turned back on itself at this point, maybe a 300deg right turn. I took an armful of wands and tape up with me and made a sort of funnel around the trig point to guide runners back towards the finish.

    Despite this I had to yell at quite a few runners who’d jump over the tape (above knee high and with deep heather either side) and continue blindly on in the outward line!

    Regarding walking/running poles in races: it’s a bit much to say “look at SA or SFRA” rules as they often then refer on to further rulesets. Quite why the organisers couldn’t explicitly ban them is perplexing.

    Spin
    Member

    Great fun yesterday and today supporting a Ramsay Round. I supported leg one over the Ben etc then went back out this morning to meet her on Stob Ban. She had to go pretty deep but came in in 23.51. Splendid effort and great to be a part of it.

    Superb, that sort of stuff fries my brain, phenomenal.

    Just home from supporting the first half of the west highland way race. When I left at 50 miles the winner had crossed the line.
    Just incredible.

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